Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

[Jagella]

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:

Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."

The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

[EarthScienceguy]

1st I am not sure why you are calling this "supporting homosexual hatred."

One of the great campaigns of the of the 1980's and 90's was the campaign against smoking. The reasoning for the desired ban on smoking was the life shorting effects of smoking and the cost of course. Smoking shortens a persons life by an average of 10 years.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statis ... /index.htm

And yet there are four lines of evidence that are consistent with previous findings suggesting that homosexual activity may be associated with a lifespan shortened by 20 to 30 years.
https://www.apologeticspress.org/APCont ... ticle=1390

So why are we all not supporting this effort to change the behaviors of those that choose to engage in this behavior.


2nd

Those that engage in homosexual behavior are:
10 times more often in accidents
17 times more frequently in traffic
26 times more often from suicide
87 times more from murder
23 times more often from heart attacks (compared to white men aged 25-44)
https://www.apologeticspress.org/APCont ... ticle=1390

Those that engage in homosexual behaviors are 87 times more likely to die of murder. Again how helping those out of this destructive life style hatred and not love.

[otseng]

So are you suggesting that even Christians are worshiping their smart phones?

Christians are not immune to having idols, including smartphones.

We can disagree on positions and still respect each other...
...No, I do not "repudiate" anything in the Bible.

Frankly, I cannot think of anything that is more disrespectful to a person than to refuse to repudiate a law that mandates that that that person should be executed if she or he engages in harmless sex.

Yet, nobody in the US is executing anyone for homosexual behavior, so it's a moot point.

If you truly respect people, then you should value them and value their lives and oppose any unjust and unnecessary threats to their lives.

Sure, but again, if someone willingly seeks something, including therapy of any form, they should be free to pursue it. If you say someone should not have the right to stop two people from freely engaging in sex, you cannot also then say someone should not have the right to engage in whatever therapy they want.

Anti-gay therapy, by contrast, evidently does cause suicide in a direct way.

If it's forced therapy, yes, I can possibly see how. But if it is not forced, how does therapy cause suicide in a direct way?

If teenage dating posed as much of a risk of suicide as anti-gay therapy, then yes, teenage dating should be banned!

How many people have committed suicide due to anti-gay therapy?

I think the main point I should make in this post is that you have avowed that you do not repudiate the Biblical mandate to execute sexually-active homosexuals.

Again, it's an irrelevant point. Nobody is executing homosexuals based on any Biblical mandate. Now, if people were, then I would take a position on it. Now, you might be thinking of Muslims executing homosexuals, but that has nothing to do with Christianity.

My secular morality is a morality of freedom, harmony, reason, and fair-play. While I think you are a generally moral person, your religious beliefs hobble your morality preventing it from progressing to a higher level of civilized thinking.

Since secularists believe in subjective morality, there's no reason to believe that your morality is objectively better than anyone else's.

[FWI]

Response to post # 67 by Tcg

Yes, I am fully aware of the APA's present position. Yet, are you aware of their previous ones? A report from the APA Task Force, which claims that SOCE (sexual orientation change efforts) is harmful, also states that: "There are no scientifically rigorous studies of recent SOCE that would enable us to make a definitive statement about whether recent SOCE actions are safe or harmful and for whom.� So, it seems that the APA relies on reports of the possible harm, but not the possible benefits. This would be a clear indication of bias and devoid of being a proper scientific research. So, it would seem that the credibility of the APA can be questioned.

Another example of a credibility problem was the 2015 APA's Defense Department Scandal, which caused shock waves through-out the organization…

Also, former APA president Nicholas Cummings stated that social science is in a state of decline with social-activist groups now dominating the profession. Dr. Cummings admits that the APA takes positions in areas where they have no conclusive evidence…

Though, psychiatrist Robert Spitzer might wish he could retract his findings from his 2003 study of the experiences of 200 individuals who have underwent SOCE and experienced reduction or modification in SSA (same-sex attraction), all he has done and has been able to do is reassess his own interpretation of the data. His reassessment hinges on his new opinion that the self-reports of his participants were not credible, asserting without evidence that they must have been lying or self-deceived. Nevertheless, the quality of findings from his study, though inherently limited by the method of retrospective, self-reports still suggests, even with response bias, that SOCE may be effective. Or, at the very least that more research should be funded and performed. (Christopher H. Rosik, PhD)

Before 1973, the APA supported that homosexuality was a mental disorder. However, with extreme pressure and support for a revolution against prevailing social order, which led to demands that restrictions on sexual pleasure and unnatural sexual actions be lifted. The APA caved in to the gay activists and removed homosexuality from the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) in 1973. Now, there are those who would like to believe that this was done, because of rock solid scientific research on the issue. But no, this was not the case! It was done by a "vote" of the APA members. Where, 55% voted for the action and 45% didn't…Hence, the change in the DSM seems to be a result of opinions, not clear scientific results! This is also made obvious in your support material:

The American Psychiatric Association does not believe that same-sex orientation should or needs to be changed, and efforts to do so represent a significant risk of harm by subjecting individuals to forms of treatment which have not been scientifically validated and by undermining self-esteem when sexual orientation fails to change.

So, it seems that the APA has shifted from verifiable scientific evidence to beliefs…Hence, it also seems that "argumentum ad populum" can be applied here and the results of the vote rejected. Which is claimed in other topics.

Therefore, the obvious changes in the APA position on important matters, seems to correlate with their membership's change of opinion and beliefs, not verifiable evidence. In other words, it seems that their positions may not be always reliable and unbiased…However, this is not a knock on the many individuals who have given their careers and full support to the goal of helping those who may have a mental health issue. I salute them for their dedication.

[Jagella]

1st I am not sure why you are calling this "supporting homosexual hatred."

Again, I should have asked if Christians support the persecution of gays. I was inspired to start this thread because I read the magazine article in Scientific American that I cited in the OP, Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." This article exposes the harm that some Christian groups are doing to gays. I do not want innocent people to be harmed needlessly, and I'm demanding that Christians stop persecuting gays.

Those that engage in homosexual behavior are:
10 times more often in accidents
17 times more frequently in traffic
26 times more often from suicide
87 times more from murder
23 times more often from heart attacks (compared to white men aged 25-44)

And yet there are four lines of evidence that are consistent with previous findings suggesting that homosexual activity may be associated with a lifespan shortened by 20 to 30 years.

I'm glad you have cited these statistics. I see no obvious reason why such tragedy would result directly from gay or lesbian leanings. However, if gays are persecuted by Christians or anybody else, then it seems much easier to understand why they would die young, especially if their deaths result from suicide or murder.

Those that engage in homosexual behaviors are 87 times more likely to die of murder. Again how helping those out of this destructive life style hatred and not love.

If we want to help people escape destructive lifestyles, then let's help them escape Christianity! That way they won't be taught that it is holy to believe that homosexuals should be murdered like the Bible demands.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 66 by FWI]

The root of the problem clearly points to mental health issues, where, the minor is confused on the correct understandings of what is right and what isn't…

Just what are the correct understandings of what is right and what isn't? It seems to me that having other people trying to impose what they perceive as right and wrong on someone with same sex attraction is what causes incredible internal conflict. The root of the problem lies in telling someone that an aspect of their personality that they have no control over is wrong.

[Jagella]

Frankly, I cannot think of anything that is more disrespectful to a person than to refuse to repudiate a law that mandates that that that person should be executed if she or he engages in harmless sex.

Yet, nobody in the US is executing anyone for homosexual behavior, so it's a moot point.

I don't understand your logic. How does the presumed lack of homosexuals being executed in the US have anything to do with showing contempt for them by adhering to a barbaric Biblical mandate?

And by the way, if gays are being protected these days, it sure has nothing to do with Christianity! Our modern, secular society does not allow Jews or Christians to execute gays.

Sure, but again, if someone willingly seeks something, including therapy of any form, they should be free to pursue it. If you say someone should not have the right to stop two people from freely engaging in sex, you cannot also then say someone should not have the right to engage in whatever therapy they want.

Anti-gay therapy is a harmful scam. Sometimes the government does need to intervene to prevent hucksters from hurting people they may dupe otherwise. So I support a ban on anti-gay therapy in all fifty states.

If it's forced therapy, yes, I can possibly see how. But if it is not forced, how does therapy cause suicide in a direct way?

No doubt the gays who have been victimized by anti-gay therapy have been made to feel guilty over their natural urges. If guilt gets bad enough, then it should come as no surprise that they may try to take their own lives.

How many people have committed suicide due to anti-gay therapy?

The article mentions that forty-two percent of a subgroup who received this "therapy" attempted suicide. I do hope you don't believe there is an acceptable number.

Since secularists believe in subjective morality, there's no reason to believe that your morality is objectively better than anyone else's.

Subjective or objective, my morality is one of opposition to the execution of gays. Your morality, based in the Bible and your Christian faith, does not allow you to oppose their execution.

In my opinion, then, my morality is much better than yours!

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 71 by EarthScienceguy]

So why are we all not supporting this effort to change the behaviors of those that choose to engage in this behavior.
2nd
Those that engage in homosexual behavior are:
10 times more often in accidents
17 times more frequently in traffic
26 times more often from suicide
87 times more from murder
23 times more often from heart attacks (compared to white men aged 25-44)
https://www.apologeticspress.org/APCont ... ticle=1390

Those that engage in homosexual behaviors are 87 times more likely to die of murder. Again how helping those out of this destructive life style hatred and not love.

So, let's take the biblical approach and put them all to death. I'm sure the help you have envisioned is what Yahweh had in mind as well.

[Tcg]

Again how helping those out of this destructive life style hatred and not love.

Conversion therapy doesn't attempt to help people out of a destructive lifestyle. It attempts, and fails again and again, to change an individual's sexual orientation.

It fails because sexual orientation can't be changed. Conversion therapy's failure is yet another bit a relevant data that supports this fact.


Tcg

[ttruscott]

It is only recently that opposition to gay lifestyle is taken to mean hatred for gay people. Sorry bud, this is a straw horse, unable to drink at the well of life; a fantasy no Christian accepts.

[Tcg]

It is only recently that opposition to gay lifestyle is taken to mean hatred for gay people.

Leviticus, including it's homophobic attitude, was written around 2,500 years ago. Of course then it Jewish sponsored hatred for gays. Christians have taken up the mantel and it is now indeed Christian sponsored hatred for gays.

There is nothing new about this hatred.


Tcg