Are humans related to apes?

[Zzyzx]

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Are humans related to apes?

Geneticists (people who study such things) tell us that H. sapiens have great genetic similarity to members of the taxonomic group Family: Hominidae (great apes).

This seems to offend some people or to contradict their religious beliefs.

On what basis can argument be made that the classification is in error?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 130 by EarthScienceguy]

How many chromosomes does Australopithecus have?

How many chromosomes does mud have?

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 126 by SallyF]

But this thread is about humans and apes.

So …

Then the Lord God (Jehovah Elohim) formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

How about some evidentiary detail of what Jehovah actually DID …?

In this passage the Lord states that He formed man formed man from the dust of the ground. That would be the physical part of man. He also breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living being. That would be the soul of man. So in this passage the Bible is saying the man is dualistic in nature.

So is there evidence that man is dualistic in nature and there is.

Similarly, System 1 encourages us to see things dualistically, meaning we have trouble thinking of the mind and body as a single unit. This tendency emerges quite early: young children, regardless of their cultural background, are inclined to believe that they have an immortal soul – that their essence or personhood existed somewhere prior to their birth, and will always continue to exist. This disposition easily assimilates into many existing religions, or – with a bit of creativity – lends itself to devising original constructs.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2014 ... -disappear

Simple explanation: Humans wrote the Bible.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to FarWanderer]

Simple explanation: Humans wrote the Bible.

Ok let's take the thought and examine it.

If humans wrote the Bible, I would believe that one must be assuming that we are assuming a naturalistic view of humanity. So man is intellect is evolving over the years, and becoming more advance in his knowledge about himself and the world around him. One could even say that man is becoming more moral and apt at expressing himself.

So according to the above theory, would man 4000 years ago be able to deduce that he was a dualistic being. Seems kind of advanced for a man or neanderthal made of mud.

[SallyF]

[Replying to FarWanderer]

Simple explanation: Humans wrote the Bible.

Ok let's take the thought and examine it.

If humans wrote the Bible, I would believe that one must be assuming that we are assuming a naturalistic view of humanity. So man is intellect is evolving over the years, and becoming more advance in his knowledge about himself and the world around him. One could even say that man is becoming more moral and apt at expressing himself.

So according to the above theory, would man 4000 years ago be able to deduce that he was a dualistic being. Seems kind of advanced for a man or neanderthal made of mud.

This bloke probably imagined the same sort of things we do.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat]

Barrett suggests we have evolved to be overly sensitive to agency. We evolved in an environment containing many agents - family members, friends, rivals, predators, prey, and so on. Spotting and understanding other agents helps us survive and reproduce. So we evolved to be sensitive to them - oversensitive in fact. Hear a rustle in the bushes behind you and you instinctively spin round, looking for an agent. Most times, there's no one there - just the wind in the leaves. But, in the environment in which we evolved, on those few occasions when there was an agent present, detecting it might well save your life. Far better to avoid several imaginary predators than be eaten by a real one. Thus evolution will select for an inheritable tendency to not just detect - but over detect - agency. We have evolved to possess (or, perhaps more plausibly, to be) hyper-active agency detectors.

So how does this equate to a dualistic view of self?

I wasn't addressing such a thing. You alluded to a human disposition (for the gods). What I supplied was a psychological explanation.

I'm sure the readers are able to read both of our explanations and determine which seems more reasonable.

Does an ape think he has a soul and body?

This ape knows he has a body. Souls as you should know have never been evidenced.

So an honest ape would answer that question with, 'I don't know'. As I have shown, plenty of apes throughout history have not settled for 'I don't know' and have invented god concepts to replace such unknown 'I don't knows'.

How many chromosomes does Australopithecus have? You can pick whichever Australopithecus you want to pick.

You're going to have to help me out a bit. What claim of mine are you referring to here? I ask because I could say '2' and be wrong and it wouldn't affect any argument I have made.
I fear you are just trying to take the focus off of the fact that there is a psychological explanation that explains why humans have this disposition you referred to and none of the gods are actually needed to explain it.

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to FarWanderer]

Simple explanation: Humans wrote the Bible.

Ok let's take the thought and examine it.

If humans wrote the Bible, I would believe that one must be assuming that we are assuming a naturalistic view of humanity.

Well, we certainly don't have to. Every other religion on the planet believes humans wrote the Bible. It's hardly unique to naturalists.

So man is intellect is evolving over the years, and becoming more advance in his knowledge about himself and the world around him. One could even say that man is becoming more moral and apt at expressing himself.

So according to the above theory, would man 4000 years ago be able to deduce that he was a dualistic being. Seems kind of advanced for a man or neanderthal made of mud.

We are supposed to be over 100,000 years old as a species, maybe well over. Needless to say, 4,000 years is little by comparison. The substantive differences between man today and man 4,000 years ago are believed to be culture, history, education, technology. etc., not innate cognitive abilities.

[Tcg]

So according to the above theory, would man 4000 years ago be able to deduce that he was a dualistic being. Seems kind of advanced for a man or neanderthal made of mud.

Advanced? It sounds perfectly primitive. Belief in that for which there is absolutely no evidence of most likely simply because it aids in death denial.


Tcg

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to FarWanderer]

Well, we certainly don't have to. Every other religion on the planet believes humans wrote the Bible. It's hardly unique to naturalists.

But every other religion would still claim that a god created the universe. The only view that does not commit to a god creating the universe is naturalism, so yes it would be unique to naturalists.

We are supposed to be over 100,000 years old as a species, maybe well over. Needless to say, 4,000 years is little by comparison. The substantive differences between man today and man 4,000 years ago are believed to be culture, history, education, technology. etc., not innate cognitive abilities.

But there are many who believe that man's morality and view of himself is still evolving.

I have had many on this site comment on how man's view of homosexuallity has evolved to acceptance. How many things that religion once viewed as evil and wrong society now accepts.

But if the writers of the Bible had as you say, the same cognitive abilities as man today then why did he not pick property dualism or predicate dualism? Why did they pick substance dualism to describe man?

If man has had the same cognitive abilities as man does today for over 100,000 years why do we not see great civilizations like Persia and Rome 50000 years go. Why did man only begin to develop writing in the Bronze age? Did this development from the stone age to the iron constitute an evolutionary development?

If man has had all of his cognitive abilities that he has now for the last 100,000 years including the way that man is hard wired for communication, then writing should have been developed long before 3000 BC.

I agree with you that ancient man had all of the cognitive abilities that we have today. The conclusion could not be that man is over 100,000 years old. The conclusion would have to be that man is only a few thousand years old.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 135 by Clownboat]

I wasn't addressing such a thing. You alluded to a human disposition (for the gods). What I supplied was a psychological explanation.

I'm sure the readers are able to read both of our explanations and determine which seems more reasonable.

Your explanation does not connect the dots of how a fear causes duality.

Quote:
Does an ape think he has a soul and body?

This ape knows he has a body. Souls as you should know have never been evidenced.

So an honest ape would answer that question with, 'I don't know'. As I have shown, plenty of apes throughout history have not settled for 'I don't know' and have invented god concepts to replace such unknown 'I don't knows'.

An ape would have 48 chromosomes. You have 48 chromosomes? I do not believe there are any examples of any ape with 48 chromosomes thing that he has a body and soul.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 135 by Clownboat]

I wasn't addressing such a thing. You alluded to a human disposition (for the gods). What I supplied was a psychological explanation.

I'm sure the readers are able to read both of our explanations and determine which seems more reasonable.

Your explanation does not connect the dots of how a fear causes duality.

That is correct. What amazes me is that you still pretend to not understand why. Yet, it is just a few lines above staring you in the face. I'll copy/paste it again, but I'm starting to fear you are just messing with me.

"I wasn't addressing such a thing. You alluded to a human disposition (for the gods). What I supplied was a psychological explanation."

Quote:
Does an ape think he has a soul and body?

This ape knows he has a body. Souls as you should know have never been evidenced.

So an honest ape would answer that question with, 'I don't know'. As I have shown, plenty of apes throughout history have not settled for 'I don't know' and have invented god concepts to replace such unknown 'I don't knows'.

An ape would have 48 chromosomes. You have 48 chromosomes? I do not believe there are any examples of any ape with 48 chromosomes thing that he has a body and soul.

(That's not even worded well...)
Good thing for us, what you believe does not affect reality.
https://www.realclearscience.com/articl ... 10510.html
We now realise that modern humans are just one of the African great apes.

I realize that science and your preferred religious beliefs do not agree. I seek to battle against your disinformation to others.
But, but, but... it's for religious reasons 'shouldn't' be an excuse.