Confused Theists?

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Zzyzx
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Confused Theists?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Confused Theists?
Divine Insight wrote: All I see are billions of confused theists who passionately disagree with each other over what they think their fantasy God should stand for.
As DI says, billions of 'Christians' (and tens of thousands of splinter groups) claiming knowledge of 'God', reading different versions of the Bible (55 in English), performing different rituals, pointing in different directions, telling different stories.

Theists in these debates often make very different claims for their 'God' and variously 'interpret' their Bible stories.

Sounds like cereal makers touting their product as best while having similar (often unhealthy) ingredients.

If Christianity has truth to offer, why does it speak with a forked tongue?

(Forked tongue defined as: “To make empty or false promises; to speak duplicitously or beguilingly.� https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com)
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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #2

Post by Jagella »

Zzyzx wrote:If Christianity has truth to offer, why does it speak with a forked tongue?

(Forked tongue defined as: “To make empty or false promises; to speak duplicitously or beguilingly.� https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com)
Well, dancing around issues and dodging questions not to mention censorship of ideas and arguments critical to Christianity is a very forked tongue.

If you have no facts, then what else can you do?

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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote: If Christianity has truth to offer, why does it speak with a forked tongue?

(Forked tongue defined as: “To make empty or false promises; to speak duplicitously or beguilingly.� https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com)

I dont believe Christianity speaks with "forked tongue" at all. If individuals or groups do so they disqualify themselves from being Christians. True Christianity is "the way" (the mode of life and body of beliefs) established by Christ and True Christianity exists today as an international body of Christians united in beliefs and bonded by unbreakabe by love (see John 13:35).

Further Reading Loaded Questions: What They Are and How to Respond to Them
https://effectiviology.com/loaded-question/





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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #4

Post by Zzyzx »

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JehovahsWitness wrote: I dont believe Christianity speaks with "forked tongue" at all.
Opinion noted. Confirmation bias
JehovahsWitness wrote: If individuals or groups do so they disqualify themselves from being Christians.
Are you authorized to state who is or is not a Christian?
JehovahsWitness wrote: True Christianity is "the way" (the mode of life and body of beliefs) established by Christ and True Christianity exists today as an international body of Christians united in beliefs and bonded by unbreakabe by love (see John 13:35).
Evidently every splinter group considers itself 'True Christianity' – and there are tens of thousands of 'denominations' preaching different 'truths'.
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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: If individuals or groups do so they disqualify themselves from being Christians.
Are you authorized to state who is or is not a Christian?
No, I'm authorized to repeat what Jesus said as to what would qualify an individual or a group from being considered Christian. This is what I just did (compare Mat 7:13, 14, John 8:44 Mat 28:19, 20).





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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: True Christianity is "the way" (the mode of life and body of beliefs) established by Christ and True Christianity exists today as an international body of Christians united in beliefs and bonded by unbreakabe by love (see John 13:35).
Evidently every splinter group considers itself 'True Christianity' – and there are tens of thousands of 'denominations' preaching different 'truths'.

I wouldn't know about "splinter groups", scripturally speaking, true Christianity doesnt "splinter" from anything . True Christians should identify itself as such regardless of how many imitations groups exist.




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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #7

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]
If Christianity has truth to offer, why does it speak with a forked tongue?
Because Christianity is a religion controlled and instructed by imperfect men that are more concerned with power, money an influence that doing anything that's God driven.
History shows us men that were spoken to directly (presumably) by God started their own belief system. As one belief system starts, people join and when some of them disagree with 'this or that' they split and start their own religion.
It's a viscous circle of lies/misunderstandings that's taught as FACT, that knows no end.

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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #8

Post by Zzyzx »

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JehovahsWitness wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: True Christianity is "the way" (the mode of life and body of beliefs) established by Christ and True Christianity exists today as an international body of Christians united in beliefs and bonded by unbreakabe by love (see John 13:35).
Evidently every splinter group considers itself 'True Christianity' – and there are tens of thousands of 'denominations' preaching different 'truths'.
I wouldn't know about "splinter groups", scripturally speaking, true Christianity doesnt "splinter" from anything . True Christians should identify itself as such regardless of how many imitations groups exist.
Speaking of splinter groups, JW evidently splintered from Adventists (led by a former Presbyterian).
Charles Taze Russell born 1852, raised a Presbyterian

At age 23 Russell receives a magazine called The Herald of the Morning, published by Nelson H Barbour, an Adventist. The Adventists were awaiting Christ’s return and had predicted various dates to no avail. Now Barbour was preaching that Christ had returned in 1874, but invisibly.

In 1876 Russell became financial backer to Barbour’s magazine, they believed that the Rapture would be in 1878. This did not take place. Russell had many different businesses.

In 1879 Russell quit the staff of the Adventist magazine and started his own, calling it Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. He started preaching form the pulpits of Protestant churches, soon he was known as “Pastor�
His teachings were becoming diverse to the churches, in 1882 he rejected the Trinity doctrine. He also preached the end of the world would be 1914.

In 1916 Russell died, failing to see his predictions come true. He had left instructions that his successor be shared with the Watch Tower’s board of directors and editorial committee.

Joseph F Rutherford who was vice president used the law to break up the board of directors, his aim was to take control. After securing headquarters he started to take control of the congregations, running it as a tight knit organisation. Some congregations broke away, many of these Russellite groups still exist today.

1925 was predicted as the date when Abraham Isaac and Jacob would be resurrected to earth.

By 1927 Rutherford had made the door to door literature distribution work essential to all members

In 1931 the Bible Students are renamed Jehovah’s Witnesses which helped to differentiate them from the break off groups.

1942 Rutherford dies and Nathan H Knorr takes up the presidency, with Frederick Franz dealing in doctrinal matters. the Watch Tower society start to publish their literature anonymously.

Fred Franz starts to change the chronology, establishing 1914 and not 1874 as Christ’s invisible return. During the 1960s, the year 1975 is spoken of as likely being the time for Armageddon, much of the literature from that time has since been revised or no longer available to view.

Knorr sets up training programs for members to become effective door to door preachers.

In the 1970s the board of directors became the Governing Body with additional members being added, giving the impression that the Watch Tower has authority from God not as a legal corporation.

1977 Knorr dies, and Franz inherits a troubled organisation. For the first time in decades they are losing members, with many questioning dates such as 1975, as well  as the heavenly calling ending in 1935

1980 sees a crackdown on members studying independently to the Watch Tower, with judicial committees being formed and members being excommunicated for apostasy. Members who were disfellowshipped or left voluntarily were to be shunned as being disloyal, with former friends not even allowed to say “Hello� to them.

The above is the ‘in a nut shell’ version, the countless business interests, court cases etc. are all well documented, you can find link to these in the resources section.
http://www.x-j-w.org/history/
They seem obsessed with making failed 'prophesies' for when 'Christ will return' -- leading to internal splintering. And the beat goes on . . .
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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
Speaking of splinter groups, . .
I wasn't speaking of splinter groups I was speakjng about true Christianity.
JehovahsWitness wrote: True Christianity is "the way" (the mode of life and body of beliefs) established by Christ and True Christianity exists today as an international body of Christians united in beliefs and bonded by unbreakabe by love (see John 13:35).
I cannot see how what you wrote relates to my comment, perhaps you would like to explain.




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Confused Theists?

Post #10

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote:

I wouldn't know about "splinter groups", scripturally speaking, true Christianity doesnt "splinter" from anything . True Christians should identify itself as such regardless of how many imitations groups exist.
The historical reality is that the gospels were preserved through the ages by the RC Church. The verse that gives the RC Church authority is Matthew 16:18

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Those that accepted the Church's documents but decided on a new interpretation of the words are quite certainly "splinter groups". They can bluster and shout they are right in what they think, but the old body of belief from which they have seceded would have another view.

It is so very easy to take lines from Scripture, interpret them and then declare our interpretation is correct. We go to university to learn that this is not quite the way to establish truth, though it is comforting to suppose our ideas, or those we've taken from some other person, are good and true.

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