The Prospects for Republican Evangelicals.

[2ndRateMind]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity*.

Do we need to save republicans and evangelicals?

Surely, the rich hog the wealth that poor people need to buy food to eat, vote against universal health care, and generally seem not to love their fellow man, for fear of being obliged to help him when he needs it. From my (European) perspective, the US economy is run along 'dog eat dog, and let the Devil take the hindmost' principles, and this has only concentrated during the Trump administration.

To be honest, I'm equivocal about this. I don't see republican evangelicals as particularly congenial company anyway. If they all get to go to Heaven, I'm happy for them, but would prefer a Hell amongst similar eccentrics to myself. And if they all go to Hell, as I suspect they will, they will only make my own afterlife that much worse. So, on balance, I assume the worst, for the worst of us, but will work to bring about salvation for these republicans, these evangelicals, anyway.

Best wishes, 2RM

*Matthew 7:21-23, KJV.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

Why do we need to save them? From what, exactly?
Seems 'the people' need saved from them more than anything else.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 1 by 2ndRateMind]

Why do we need to save them? From what, exactly?
Seems 'the people' need saved from them more than anything else.

Absolutely. But out of ordinary Christian charity, we need to rescue them from eternal torment. Christ was quite clear on this; that this is how the avaricious rich will be dealt with, in His parable about the beggar Lazarus*. And if we do, my own little corner of Hell will be a tad more quiet. So, I am not entirely impartial on this matter.

Best wishes, 2RM

*Luke 16:19-31 KJV

[Gracchus]

[Replying to post 3 by 2ndRateMind]

Christ, if he is the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God will do what is best. If he has saved anyone he doesn't need help. This whole "redemption" thing makes absolutely no sense to me, and hasn't since the second grade when Sister Raymond Francis tried to explain it. (I kept my mouth shut. Those religious folks are kind of intolerant of dissent.)
So, maybe Christians should, as the biblical Jesus suggested, say what they have to say and then mind their own business. Remove your own plank before gouging out the other person's mote. Go off and pray in private and stop trying to make everyone pray in schools. Maybe even stop praying to a stripy cloth in the corner. But as long as you leave me and mine alone, (Believe me, we've heard it already!) I will leave you alone.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 3 by 2ndRateMind]

Christ, if he is the omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God will do what is best. If he has saved anyone he doesn't need help. This whole "redemption" thing makes absolutely no sense to me, and hasn't since the second grade when Sister Raymond Francis tried to explain it. (I kept my mouth shut. Those religious folks are kind of intolerant of dissent.)
So, maybe Christians should, as the biblical Jesus suggested, say what they have to say and then mind their own business. Remove your own plank before gouging out the other person's mote. Go off and pray in private and stop trying to make everyone pray in schools. Maybe even stop praying to a stripy cloth in the corner. But as long as you leave me and mine alone, (Believe me, we've heard it already!) I will leave you alone.

Ah, wouldn't we all like to be left alone, to go to Hell in our own damned way! But the truth is, every $ the extremely wealthy have, is a $ denied to the poor beggar Lazarus, and those like him who are alive today. The world is a connected place, and those connections make the current distribution of the world's wealth, where 1% of its population have as much as the remaining 99% put together, entirely intolerable. So I will continue to prick the consciences of the super-affluent, and, who knows, that might even have some desirable effects in the here and now, as well as in the hereafter.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Athetotheist]

Ah, wouldn't we all like to be left alone, to go to Hell in our own damned way! But the truth is, every $ the extremely wealthy have, is a $ denied to the poor beggar Lazarus, and those like him who are alive today. The world is a connected place, and those connections make the current distribution of the world's wealth, where 1% of its population have as much as the remaining 99% put together, entirely intolerable. So I will continue to prick the consciences of the super-affluent, and, who knows, that might even have some desirable effects in the here and now, as well as in the hereafter.

The problem is that Christianity and unfettered market economics are now so closely linked in the minds of Christian fundamentalists that they think you can't have the former without the latter.

Rather than try to prick the consciences of the super-affluent (I doubt that many of them are Christian anyway), you would probably do better to prick the consciences of those ordinary Christians who support them. Send them back to read chapter 4 of the Acts of the Apostles for themselves as a reminder that the first Christians had a highly socialistic way of thinking. If they can get that, maybe it will help them accept the reality that the current occupant of the Oval Office isn't a latter-day John the Baptist preparing the way for Jesus to return. And when they excuse him with, "God uses imperfect people", ask them what they profit by gaining the whole world in such a way. Ask them if this is what fellowship light has with darkness. Ask them if they want this administration's leaven leavening their whole lump. And then charge them to choose this day whom they will serve.

They understand that language; they'll know what you mean.

[Gracchus]

The reason that communism-socialism doesn't work is that people can be very selfish. They will take advantage of generosity, they will abuse mercy, they will betray trust. Then, when challenged, they will tell you that it is just "human nature" and it can't be changed. What is really true is that they don't want to change, and they won't until they can't find anyone to cheat and exploit. Only then, will they start to cry about how unfair it is.
Everyone cheats, they claim. Everyone lies, they claim. Everyone puts themself first, they claim. Everyone is just like they themselves, they plead. And, thus, out of their own mouths they are convicted.

Everyone is evil, but if you shout "Praise Jesus" and "Hallelujah" loud enough, often enough, publicly enough, you will be forgiven. (Drop something in the collection plate before you exit the building.)

[Athetotheist]

The reason that communism-socialism doesn't work is that people can be very selfish. They will take advantage of generosity, they will abuse mercy, they will betray trust. Then, when challenged, they will tell you that it is just "human nature" and it can't be changed. What is really true is that they don't want to change, and they won't until they can't find anyone to cheat and exploit. Only then, will they start to cry about how unfair it is.
Everyone cheats, they claim. Everyone lies, they claim. Everyone puts themself first, they claim. Everyone is just like they themselves, they plead. And, thus, out of their own mouths they are convicted.

Everyone is evil, but if you shout "Praise Jesus" and "Hallelujah" loud enough, often enough, publicly enough, you will be forgiven. (Drop something in the collection plate before you exit the building.)

For forty years, a "trickle-down" economy has been promised and for forty years it has failed to materialize. The wealth concentrated at the top stays at the top. And "Praise Jesus!" and "Hallellujah!" are the cheers of the market-friendly "prosperity gospel".

Is this what we need to keep "selfish" people from taking advantage of socialism?

If socialism doesn't work, why are Scandinavians among the happiest people on earth? Is it because they're so "selfish"?

[Purple Knight]

The reason that communism-socialism doesn't work is that people can be very selfish. They will take advantage of generosity, they will abuse mercy, they will betray trust. Then, when challenged, they will tell you that it is just "human nature" and it can't be changed. What is really true is that they don't want to change, and they won't until they can't find anyone to cheat and exploit. Only then, will they start to cry about how unfair it is.
Everyone cheats, they claim. Everyone lies, they claim. Everyone puts themself first, they claim. Everyone is just like they themselves, they plead. And, thus, out of their own mouths they are convicted.

Everyone is evil, but if you shout "Praise Jesus" and "Hallelujah" loud enough, often enough, publicly enough, you will be forgiven. (Drop something in the collection plate before you exit the building.)

This is still exactly as effective a post if you had said at the beginning that it was the reason capitalism doesn't work.

In capitalism the exploiters and cheaters become big business, and in socialism they become big government. It's not like anything changes about the actual effects they have on the lives of everyone else because you change the word they're called by.

You could sub a capitalist for the pig in Animal Farm just as easily, which is why our capitalist world is starting to mirror the dystopia of Animal Farm a lot more effectively than the communist worlds it's taking a stab at.

Some people end up with everything. Through either the free market and property ownership, or through the government, money simply flows toward them so that they don't have to work and others do.