Why does atheism have a suicide problem?

[EarthScienceguy]

Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often don’t like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atheism- ... ec613b812b

[Mithrae]

We have an overpopulation problem. That's not really debatable.

It's highly debatable - and the main reason that it is so commonly assumed and promoted in wealthy countries as an incontrovertible truth is highlighted in your next sentence: "...developing countries keep generating more and more mouths to feed..."

Imagining that the big problem is overpopulation is a convenient way of placing the blame and responsibility mostly on other people.

But considering that individuals in wealthier countries use dozens and often hundreds of times more resources than those in developing countries, that's obviously bollocks. The big problem is not overpopulation, but overconsumption. This planet can comfortably provide for ten billion people's need; it cannot satiate even two billion people's greed.

https://www.monbiot.com/2009/09/29/the-population-myth/

• https://www.monbiot.com/2015/11/19/pregnant-silence/
  Perhaps it’s no coincidence that so many post-reproductive white men are obsessed with human population growth, as it’s about the only environmental problem of which they can wash their hands. Nor, I believe, is it a coincidence that of all such topics this is the least tractable. When there is almost nothing to be done, there is no requirement to act.
  
  Such is the momentum behind population growth, an analysis in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences discovered, that were every government to adopt the one-child policy China has just abandoned, there would still be as many people on Earth at the end of this century as there are today. If two billion people were wiped out by a catastrophe in mid-century, the planet would still hold a billion more by 2100 than it does now. If we want to reduce our impacts this century, the paper concludes, it’s consumption we must address. Population growth is outpaced by the growth in our consumption of almost all resources.

[Mithrae]

That's a great question. We need to be careful concluding that a person truly wants to end her or his life rather than she or he merely seeking a better life. A suicidal person may actually be seeking help and sympathy. Chances are that the resources are available to help that person live a decent life.

Another problem with allowing suicide is that it is problematical on a practical level. People killing themselves can lead to significant problems as we need to clean up sidewalks they leaped upon from ten stories up. It's also a major effort to search for bodies on the riverbed below a bridge.

Good points - along with the inevitable question of whether it was suicide, or murder. But if someone considers the burden of living too heavy to bear and for whatever reason can't or hasn't found the help to overcome that burden, telling them that they'll be breaking the law if they kill themselves is hardly going to stop them! Fortunately there is a potential route to dealing with some of those 'logistical' problems with suicide:
[youtube][/youtube]

Suicide booths might be a little extreme... but clinics at which folk can make an appointment for a few counseling sessions, and a painless death if that's still what they're determined to do? As with abortion, seems to me it's an area where there's no perfect answer and in the end utilitarian pragmatism should trump idealism.

[marco]

Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often don’t like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

I've been watching documentaries on young people imprisoned in a religious household who throw their lives away because their religion condemns them. Happy atheists and happy Christians seem to avoid asking death to visit early.

Atheism as such has no suicide problem: atheism is the acceptance that somehow we've landed on a planet, can find food and company, and must make do. Refusal to accept this chance circumstance might make us want to leave the planet. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Tcg]

(Opinion) In this overpopulated world, every suicide is a precious gift to the next generation.

It may be considered a gift by those who never knew the suicide victim. To those who did, it can be one of the most painful experiences they will have. In many cases altering their lives, attitudes, and emotional outlook permanently.


Tcg

[Jagella]

...in the case of a person with terminal illness, constant severe pain, absent quality of life, unable to control bodily functions or care for themselves -- euthanasia may be a viable option.

Many people who are not ill or in physical pain or incontinent may wish to take their own lives. Their pain may be emotional distress, and they may feel hopeless living a life that seems to have no quality. For example, a strong, healthy man might feel despondent over a divorce. Would his taking his own life be "a reasonable and intelligent option"?

So should we allow suicide for everybody or just those who are physically ill? This is a question that euthanasia advocates don't seem to have an answer for. It appears that this "reasonable and intelligent option" is only an option for the disabled.

My approach to this issue is for us as a society to improve living conditions and medical care for the sick, disabled, the elderly and everybody else. There's definitely room for improvement! Much of the drive for euthanasia is based in politics in which the disabled are seen as an expensive drain on society. Many people hate to pay taxes to support those who "don't work." They have no desire to pay to feed and house those they don't value or respect to begin with.

It's a dangerous game. If the disabled are literally left out in the cold, then what will those who put them there do if they become ill or disabled?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 33 by marco]

Atheism as such has no suicide problem: atheism is the acceptance that somehow we've landed on a planet, can find food and company, and must make do. Refusal to accept this chance circumstance might make us want to leave the planet. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.

This is a solid belief statement but it does not seem to be rooted in anytype of fact. The above words are not mine, but someone who believes that there is no such thing as God.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 32 by Mithrae]

But if someone considers the burden of living too heavy to bear and for whatever reason can't or hasn't found the help to overcome that burden, telling them that they'll be breaking the law if they kill themselves is hardly going to stop them! Fortunately there is a potential route to dealing with some of those 'logistical' problems with suicide:

That is the question. Why do people consider the burden of living too heavy to bear and why is this associated with atheism?

People have tried to describe man's need for God as a evolutionary quirk but it is much more than that. It is a need of man.

[Jagella]

People have tried to describe man's need for God as a evolutionary quirk but it is much more than that. It is a need of man.

Will any god do, or is the Christian god the only option? Whenever Christian apologists complain about the evils of atheism, I've often wondered if those apologists would be happy if we atheists all started believing in Thor. We wouldn't be atheists anymore!

[Purple Knight]

That's a great question. We need to be careful concluding that a person truly wants to end her or his life rather than she or he merely seeking a better life. A suicidal person may actually be seeking help and sympathy. Chances are that the resources are available to help that person live a decent life.

The only thing is, that other person who has a chance at success because a niche freed up can be happy now, because a death equals more resources for them. It's horrible (opinion) to waste resources on an unhappy life when there are happy ones to spend those same resources on.

If they're seeking attention, they usually fail on purpose.

Another problem with allowing suicide is that it is problematical on a practical level. People killing themselves can lead to significant problems as we need to clean up sidewalks they leaped upon from ten stories up. It's also a major effort to search for bodies on the riverbed below a bridge.

If suicide was legal you could just walk into a doctor's office, pay a corpse disposal fee, and done. It's because suicide is illegal (opinion) that people have to find creative ways to kill themselves that often result in a mess. I would think most people would take the lethal injection over something as likely to leave them paralysed.

More than anything else, though, is that it's best to live in a society that values human life. We should never tell people that they and their lives don't matter because to do so will weaken our societies. Any person who commits suicide will leave behind grieving loved ones, and the fewer grieving people in our society, the better.

It is precisely because I value life so highly that I say we should allow suicide. I value a person's free will and I believe their life is theirs. In a world this overpopulated, every suicide is a precious gift: My life, for all the rest. That doesn't remove value; to me, it emphasises it.

Besides, leaving it up to the person in question means they're free to talk about it with their loved ones without fear of being institutionalised. It could be that their loved ones say they hate the person (which is probably what he assumed anyway) but perhaps that person finds out that he does have people who love him after all and changes his mind.

And no, not everyone has people who love them.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 38 by Jagella]

Will any god do, or is the Christian god the only option? Whenever Christian apologists complain about the evils of atheism, I've often wondered if those apologists would be happy if we atheists all started believing in Thor. We wouldn't be atheists anymore!

Actually research tells us yes, any god will do. Worship is a psychological need. So if you want to believe that Thor is god then yes that would actually help you. That is if you can truly believe that Thor is god.

Yes, if you would like to get a large hammer and pray to it and worship the the hammer of Thor meaning learning the theology of the hammer and maybe singing songs about the hammer. It could be a country and it go something like this:

"Oh, Thor don't electrify me with your big big hammer because that would hurt so bad."

So there you go.