Sodom, Greece, Rome and homosexuality.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:00 pm

Does allowing for diversity include parents having no voice in what their children are forced to be taught and have to accept?

Do Christians and the many other cultures and belief systems opposed to homosexuality have the right to have their culture and religious views respected in society when it comes to decent and natural sexual behavior in the education system and in public?

Are homosexuals demanding accesss to children under the label of diversity and anti-hate legislation?

This seems the number one issue between average and normal "family" people and the homosexual agenda.

Can there be laws passed that keeps homosexuality from becoming forced on children and families that oppose it, without the homosexual community and homosexual action organizations crying discrimination?

Is there such a thing anymore as heterosexual rights?

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:02 am

Quote:
1John2_26 wrote: Quote:
Who in California or Massachusetts has been successfully convicted of a crime based simply on being a practicing Christian?

Very clever spin McCulloch. When have I ever doubted your skill with wording?

And yet you fail to answer the question.
McCulloch and you, know very well I have answered the question. This is like the bully's buddies surrounding a little kid they pick on demanding the proof they are picking on him. The threateneing nature of the beast. It is like a rape victim being told they shouldn't have went into "that bar."

I have posted real laws and real happeings. You want me to do it again?

Quote:
McCulloch, this mantra of yours does not prove that Christianity has not been criminalized by real laws. Christians are well-known for not breaking laws every bit as much as they are known for being homosexual pedophile priests.

The onus is on you to prove your point, not the one rebuking it.
I have proven my point with backup. You are like an attorney badgering the victim and protecting the perp. Not you McCulloch, it's an analogy.

Quote:
Like paul says: "Why not rather be wronged?" Umm, he meant that directed at the victims not the perps. I say hang those child rapists in the town square.

Public executions, yes thats the answer, it worked in biblical times so it must work now. Its probably good for a childs psychological developement too. Would this be the church or the state doing these executions? Or are they one and the same in your world?
I'm thinking of the real world where the ACLU represents pedophiles as having free speech rights. I'm thinking of seperation of church and state silencing Christians when in fact there is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state. In "fact" it is exactly the opposite. Governmant can do nothing about religion at all. Read it for yourself. You'll find it in what is called the "first" amendment. Yet the Gay Agenda is legal in schools and Christianity is illegal.

Quote:
Christians can no longer live freely because their beliefs are not tolerated. The lawyer representing the two girls in love attending a Christian High School seems to think a "law" was broken by Christian actions and beliefs. Meaning . . . there are laws criminalizing Christians for believing Christianity.

Many of us keep saying this but obviously it hasn't sunk in yet. Simply because a christian institution is ALLEGED to have broken a law does not mean that the law in question is anti-christian. Christians like everyone else is not above the law.
"NEW LAWS." Until the homosexual political juggernaut Christians could teach morality and natural behavior as good subject matter. NOW that is a hate crime.

The law treats everyone the same(mostly) and it is secular. Meaning as far as the law is concerned a christian school is no different than any other school. It is not exempt just because you think they should be.
The First Amendment pal. Sex acts are not a civil rights, culture or community qualifiers. Except in the world of prostitues. Do the math.

Quote:
I was told by a young person (I was transporting), when hearing KLove on my radio; tell me that it was illegal for me to force her to litsen to Christian music as it violated her civil rights. I am not lying.

This is why children are not lawyers, gotta give that person kudos for trying.
She was right. It is illegal.

Did you do what this child told you to do?

I told her to sue me. I do not scare easily from reprobate threats.

Quote:
It is certainly illegal "now" to teach Christianity in public schools. It used to be completely acceptable until it was outlawed. You have heard of the ACLU? Or maybe the seperation of church and state "laws?"

Its called maturing just as people do so do nations.
In Roman society it was called "declining." A famous book tried to blame Christians for that too. Those involved in perversions don't like to be stopped. Ask Larry Flint?

Its a very good thing to have separation of church and state unless you think you would be in the group that followed the state church. What would happen to the vast majority of people that don't follow your state religion?
They become Democrats, liberals, progressives and atheists. Though some Democrats I know are crawling out of the gutter.

Would you compel them to convert or merely have another reason to discriminate against them?
Last time I looked Jesus was a middle easterner and Martin Luther King Jr. was a Black guy. Christianity is anything BUT discriminating!!! Call your local Korean or Coptic congregation and ask. I love to do research. Don't you?

I say this because there is no generic christianity as you well know, can you tell me which is the "true" faith.
Family is a good place to start. Marriage and family the way Jesus described it.

What of all the people that aren't even christian? They already are discriminated by many people, just tonight on the local news there was a report of a hindu temple being vandalized.
By Muslims? It happens all the time. Did you see the Coptic Church where a knife-weilding man went into the Church on this Good Friday and killed stabbed a person to death and injured several more? That would be "today."

[May God welcome those persecuted into His glory.]

Did you know that while we typed on our keyboards Christians in African countries were just slaughtered in numbers we cannot imagine?

Call the nearest Nigerian Christian church and ask if my facts don't line up? Or google "the persecuted church."

The International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted ChurchInternational Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church is raising the awareness of religious persecution of Christians in China and the Sudan.
www.persecutedchurch.org/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

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The Voice of the MartyrsA Voice Volunteer Network representative. A Sunday School teacher or Bible study leader. International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church ...
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EnterPersecuted Church Collection. hm.gif. Enter. EE.
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Yeah I guess what homosexuals and the Gay Agenda are doing to Christians in criminalizing their rights to believe the truth, is somewhat small potatoes compared to "outright" murder. Though I see in some countries Christians fight back after being slaughtered and getting no one to believe they are under attack.

Hmm, sounds familiar.

Though violence seems to have hardly any support from the Gospels. But there is a groundswell of Christians awakening in the Black congregations, that have had enough of the liberalizing from their political party buddies. Google: Reverend James Meeks.

From google:

Church Times - Muslim mobs murder African ChristiansMuslim mobs murder African Christians By Rachel Harden. 7459-egypttalks ... The attack is believed to be part of the persecution of Christians in Nigeria, ...
www.churchtimes.co.uk/80256FA1003E05C1/ httppublicpages/534A13841D6DF1158025711E0051960A?opendocument - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

African Christians face persecution and violenceChristians in Africa reap violence and persecution from religious extremists. ... Religious militants had attacked the church in a rampage within the ...
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1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:18 am

Ok, 1John.

Peace and best wishes. You have what you believe, and I don't our see disagreements or contentions as a deep purpose for living or examining religion/Christianity at all. I may indeed be wishing upon a star (as you say), but I do at least have peace in that, and it's a good place to start no matter where one is coming from (IMHO). I'm not out to control or frighten others with my beliefs, and that counts for something (I know that intuitively, because of the way this world is wired period).

Please write to those in the Gay Agenda and tell them to act as you are.
You can start with Democrat Mark Leno of California:

Over the weekend of March 25-26, radical leftwing groups in San Francisco and California State Assemblyman Mark Leno, a homosexual activist, attacked a Teen Mania youth rally in San Francisco sponsored by Ron Luce. Luce’s ministry is sponsoring Teen Mania rallies all over the U.S. to encourage teens to be sexually pure and to fight back against the culture of corruption that is victimizing so many teenagers.

Radical groups such as the World Can’t Wait, Not In Our Name, Code Pink, and the Bay Area Coalition for Our Reproductive Rights, held a noisy counter rally in front of city hall. They used bull horns to shout at the Teen Mania teenagers: “Religion Is One Thing, Theocracy Is Another,” “The Christian Right Is Wrong!”

Leftists also called Teen Mania kids “fascists” and yelled “Racist, Sexist, Anti-gay, Christian fascists go away.”

Like James said:

Listening and Doing
19My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. 21Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
22Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

I'll go on to my "Hellish" existence, or at least move on from arguing with you about anything. I'll be gay, unless God changes it, and yes... if God is anything like the picture you've painted, I don't see how anyone will escape the fires of Hell.

The picture painted in the Bible is escape from hell. Re-read it Melikio. It is the only presentation I have laid out.

But that is YOUR religious world; I'm not coming any nearer to your perspective, than I already have (I once held the kind of views you now hold (imagine that).

I once held the views you do now. No one has to imagine that as I am just one of millions and millions that lived the opposite of a Godly life.

I've likely been at it too long with you (myself). But I encourage anyone who has an opposing viewpoint, to continue challenging what you say is "truth". Not that you lie, but that what you communicate isn't always THE absolute "truth". Separating wheat/chaff? (Reality can usually do that over time; I've seen it happen many times.)

As you can see, I do not intend to not contend for the faith.

And the only way some people will know THE truth, is to challenge what is presented as such. (Otherwise, you can sell them anything.)

Like The Gay Agenda.

Still, I am comforted in the reality that truth cannot be swept completely under the rug; and that no group of human beings will enjoy perpetual control over any other group of human beings. Justice and freedom is far more profound and universal than your particular view of it.

Pax Romana didn't last Melikio. Ameirca isn't even 250-years old and is nothing unique on the world's stage. Christ Jesus and the followers of the Way, the Truth and the Life are entering millenia three.

Best wishes Mel.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:05 pm

McCulloch and you, know very well I have answered the question. This is like the bully's buddies surrounding a little kid they pick on demanding the proof they are picking on him. The threateneing nature of the beast. It is like a rape victim being told they shouldn't have went into "that bar."

I have posted real laws and real happeings. You want me to do it again?

You have posted many replies to the question, mostly filled with opinion of you and others of your same political leanings. This does not constitute proof

The onus is on you to prove your point, not the one rebuking it.

I have proven my point with backup. You are like an attorney badgering the victim and protecting the perp. Not you McCulloch, it's an analogy.

That is part of the problem, at times what you consider back up is questionable at best.

I'm thinking of the real world where the ACLU represents pedophiles as having free speech rights. I'm thinking of seperation of church and state silencing Christians when in fact there is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state. In "fact" it is exactly the opposite. Governmant can do nothing about religion at all. Read it for yourself. You'll find it in what is called the "first" amendment. Yet the Gay Agenda is legal in schools and Christianity is illegal.

Thomas Jefferson said that the first amendment was created to erect a wall between church and state. The first amendment states specifically that no law shall be passed regarding the establishment of a religion. The first amendment is not an absolute right to say whatever you want, you still have to adhere to other laws in addition you cannot say things which might cause harm to others. The traditional example given is that you can't yell fire in a theater when there is no fire. You have misread the first amendment, if what you say is true then there would be nothing stopping a pimp calling his business aphrodite worship and himself the high priest.

"NEW LAWS." Until the homosexual political juggernaut Christians could teach morality and natural behavior as good subject matter. NOW that is a hate crime.

What difference does the age of a statute make? For that matter how old does a law have to be before you will allow it? Either way your argument is laughable in this regard, all laws were new at one time or another.
The homosexual political juggernaut? What has the right wing fundamentalist christian political juggernaut been doing? I'm pretty sure that there are many more right wing conservative christians holding office than homosexuals. I can also pretty much guarantee that the right wingers have tons more money than the homosexuals could ever hope for. What ever happened to the christian coalition or the moral majority?

The First Amendment pal. Sex acts are not a civil rights, culture or community qualifiers. Except in the world of prostitues. Do the math.

Not anyones fault but your own for not understanding that theres more to homosexuality than the "mechanics as you say.

She was right. It is illegal.

I guess you don't know much about the law either then.

I told her to sue me. I do not scare easily from reprobate threats.

Please tell me you were just joking with her.

Its called maturing just as people do so do nations.

In Roman society it was called "declining." A famous book tried to blame Christians for that too. Those involved in perversions don't like to be stopped. Ask Larry Flint?

In any society there is usually a rise, maturation and then a decline, sometimes with repetitions. Please refrain from oversimplification or lies in order to make a point. As far as your pervert point is concerned you are absolutely right, after all at the time christianity was just a bunch of crazy perverts.

They become Democrats, liberals, progressives and atheists. Though some Democrats I know are crawling out of the gutter.

Please refer to the above reply about oversimplification or lies.

Last time I looked Jesus was a middle easterner and Martin Luther King Jr. was a Black guy. Christianity is anything BUT discriminating!!! Call your local Korean or Coptic congregation and ask. I love to do research. Don't you?

Yes you should always start out research by looking up the terms you are speaking of, since when is discrimination only about skin color or nation of origin?

I say this because there is no generic christianity as you well know, can you tell me which is the "true" faith.
Family is a good place to start. Marriage and family the way Jesus described it.

Okay, could you answer the original question please?

By Muslims? It happens all the time. Did you see the Coptic Church where a knife-weilding man went into the Church on this Good Friday and killed stabbed a person to death and injured several more? That would be "today."

Did I say that the vandalism was done by moslems? Thank you for the bigoted stereotype. Again you fail to actually answer the original question, this is becoming a trend with you.

Did you know that while we typed on our keyboards Christians in African countries were just slaughtered in numbers we cannot imagine?

I would guess you don't have much of an imagination.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:17 pm

26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

Do you consider yourself religious John?

But that is YOUR religious world; I'm not coming any nearer to your perspective, than I already have (I once held the kind of views you now hold (imagine that).
I once held the views you do now. No one has to imagine that as I am just one of millions and millions that lived the opposite of a Godly life.

You both flip flopped on your views using the same book as your guide, hmm.

Pax Romana didn't last Melikio. Ameirca isn't even 250-years old and is nothing unique on the world's stage. Christ Jesus and the followers of the Way, the Truth and the Life are entering millenia three.

China is a couple hundred years into its third millenia as a state, so whats your point?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:34 pm

McCulloch wrote: Who in California or Massachusetts has been successfully convicted of a crime based simply on being a practicing Christian?

1John2_26 wrote:McCulloch and you, know very well I have answered the question.

I have posted real laws and real happeings. You want me to do it again? ...
I have proven my point with backup.

I have shown that the examples you cite are either not in California or Massachusetts or are not examples of a person being successfully convicted of a crime based simply on being a practicing Christian. If it is easier for you, just provide a link or the posting number of where you claim the example is of a person in California or Massachusetts who has been convicted of the crime of being a Christian.

Scrotum · Post by **Scrotum** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:02 pm

Well, since MCCulloch´s last reply, it went silent. Most likely because John did not have an answer, and instead of writing a long none-answer, simply chose to remain silent...

or, he´s gotten arrested.

Either way, i want this topic to be one of the main ones, and not down the ladder. I still am waiting patiently for an answer from John, which i probably not get, so i will simply write (once again), about a couple of points which i would like to know the "answer" to, from the Opposition.

1. If Anal Sex is "wrong" and "abnormal", how come same judgement is not passed on the majority of the worlds population conducting themselves in fellatio and cunnilingus (oral sex)?

Anal sex is also quit popular amongst the worlds population when it comes to sexual preferance, its not a majority, but its still there. Please explain what difference this is, as its hypocritical to say one thing is wrong, whiles doing the other.

2. How come sex is ONLY putting p e n i s into a vagina, when the worlds population consider "sex" not only that, but also oral, anal, and outercourse.

In the contemporary world (today), sex does not mean the same as 500 years ago, such as "Gay" does not mean the same today (Gay originally mean Happy, pleasant etcetera).

melikio · Post by **melikio** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:30 pm

You both flip flopped on your views using the same book as your guide, hmm.

Wyvern,
I didn't "flip-flop". While my biblical views may certainly not be "authoritative", I am consistent in them.

Basically, I admit to not believing in everything that comes from the Bible (at least not in the way certain others SAY or interpret it should be believed).

Still, my main contention with 1John or anyone else, is that Christians and others who are "religious", need to accept that they cannot play "God" and really shouldn't try to.

You or anyone else are free to reject, question or disregard what may be my own views; but I do not think someone should be able to IMPOSE a "standard" or "doctrine", just because their particular book, scripture and their interpretation of it, gives them the idea or notion that they CAN/SHOULD.

If homosexuals don't just drop off the planet and/or die off, I have to wonder what people who think as 1John does, will have done with them. I know it won't work, because homosexual people are numerous and weaved as intricately into societies as other human beings.

Even so, if you look at the Bible and check my beliefs as I've cosistently shared them here, you'll see not actual flip-flop where it concerns me. I'm fine, as long as people ALLOW others the freedom or liberty to believe differently than they do.

-Mel-

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:12 am

Well, since MCCulloch´s last reply, it went silent. Most likely because John did not have an answer, and instead of writing a long none-answer, simply chose to remain silent...

or, he´s gotten arrested.

Scrotum, I have a life outside of proving that homosexuals despise Christians and are outlawing them.

Either way, i want this topic to be one of the main ones, and not down the ladder. I still am waiting patiently for an answer from John, which i probably not get, so i will simply write (once again), about a couple of points which i would like to know the "answer" to, from the Opposition.

Science has answered every one of your questions. Global warming should tell you that "the world" does not always make the right decision about what to do and how.

1. If Anal Sex is "wrong" and "abnormal", how come same judgement is not passed on the majority of the worlds population conducting themselves in fellatio and cunnilingus (oral sex)?

This nonsensical question is answered by every medical doctor on earth. Not one of them would tell you that the anus or rectum are the depositories of sperm. Neither male rectums or female rectums. I'll bet ten bucks that when or if doctors do anus transplants, that they'll be able to transplant the organs from a female into a male. And still it will not be part of the sexual organs. Unless a stitch goes awry.

Wanna bet?

Anal sex is also quit popular amongst the worlds population when it comes to sexual preferance, its not a majority, but its still there. Please explain what difference this is, as its hypocritical to say one thing is wrong, whiles doing the other.

I'm sorry I still believe that two wrongs do not make a right.

You'll have to ask an atheist or homosexual or a liberal Democrat how that works.

2. How come sex is ONLY putting p e n i s into a vagina, when the worlds population consider "sex" not only that, but also oral, anal, and outercourse.

People make wrong decisions? How 'bout that for an answer? It is proveable. Even scientifically.

In the contemporary world (today), sex does not mean the same as 500 years ago, such as "Gay" does not mean the same today (Gay originally mean Happy, pleasant etcetera).

You mean even words can get perverted. I couldn't agree more.

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:07 am

Quote:
McCulloch and you, know very well I have answered the question. This is like the bully's buddies surrounding a little kid they pick on demanding the proof they are picking on him. The threateneing nature of the beast. It is like a rape victim being told they shouldn't have went into "that bar."

I have posted real laws and real happeings. You want me to do it again?

You have posted many replies to the question, mostly filled with opinion of you and others of your same political leanings. This does not constitute proof

The laws are on the books. The boy that cried wolf eventually was eaten by a wolf. Christians are crying wolf as they are being eaten by the wolf. Gays and lesbians are learning from places like the Black Churches that what they are doing is not going to happen easily.

Arresting Christians isn't that easy. Even some of our enemies know we are not the deviants and the sickness killing our society. McCulloch is presenting an argument like the school yard bully. The little ones know they have been threatened and that the bully has now been given the go ahead from the school board.

That a Christian has not been arrested and convicted "in America" just shows the date and not the counter to Christianity being criminalized.

Quote:
The onus is on you to prove your point, not the one rebuking it.

I have proven my point with backup. You are like an attorney badgering the victim and protecting the perp. Not you McCulloch, it's an analogy.

That is part of the problem, at times what you consider back up is questionable at best.

To anti-Christians. What should be their opinion? Even Democrats are waking up to the enemy within their midst.

There is a wall between sex and state that the Gays and lebians want shattered by any means necessary. That literally means forcing Christians to submit to homosexuality or face criminal prosecution. IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. "In Europe."

European Union
European Parliament resolution on homophobia in Europe
19/01/2006
Belgium
Europe

The EP voted an amended resolution on homophobia with great majority 468 in favour 149 against 41 abstentions (roll call voting list in attachment)

European Parliament resolution on homophobia in Europe

The European Parliament,

– having regard to international and European human rights obligations, such as those contained in the UN conventions on human rights and in the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms,

– having regard to European Union provisions on human rights, and notably to the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, as well as to Articles 6 and 7 of the Treaty on European Union,

– having regard to Article 13 of the Treaty establishing the European Community which invests the European Union with the power EU to adopt measures to combat discrimination based, inter alia, on sexual orientation, and to promote the principle of equality,

– having regard to Directive 2000/43/EC and Directive 2000/78/EC prohibiting direct or indirect discrimination on grounds of racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation,

– having regard to Article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which prohibits 'any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation',

– having regard to Rule 103(4) of its Rules of Procedure,

A. whereas homophobia can be defined as an irrational fear of and aversion to homosexuality and of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people based on prejudice, similar to racism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism and sexism,

B. whereas homophobia manifests itself in the private and public spheres in different forms such as hate speech and incitement to discrimination, ridicule, verbal, psychological and physical violence as well as persecution and murder, discrimination in violation of the principle of equality, and unjustified and unreasonable limitations of rights, which are often hidden behind reasons of public order, religious freedom and the right to conscientious objection,

C. whereas recently a series of worrying events have taken place in a number of EU Member States, as widely reported by the press and NGOs, ranging from banning gay prides or equality marches to the use by leading politicians and religious leaders of inflammatory, hate or threatening language, police failing to provide adequate protection or even breaking up peaceful demonstrations, violent demonstrations by homophobic groups, and the introduction of changes to constitutions to explicitly prohibit same-sex unions,

D. whereas at the same time a positive, democratic and tolerant reaction has been shown in some cases by the general public, civil society and local and regional authorities that have demonstrated against homophobia, as well as by justice systems redressing the most striking and illegal forms of discrimination,

E. whereas same-sex partners in some Member States do not enjoy all of the rights and protections that married opposite sex partners do, consequently suffering discrimination and disadvantages,

F. whereas at the same time more countries in Europe are moving towards ensuring equal opportunities, inclusion and respect, and provide protection against discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation, and recognition of same-sex families, gender expression and gender identity;

G. whereas the Barroso Commission has declared its commitment to ensuring respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms in the EU, and has set up a group of Commissioners responsible for human rights,

H. whereas not all EU Member States have introduced in their legal order measures to protect the rights of GLBT people, as required by Directive 2000/43/EC and Directive 2000/78/EC, nor are they all fighting discrimination based on sexual orientation and promoting equality,

I. whereas further action is needed at EU level and in the Member States to eradicate homophobia and promote a culture of freedom, tolerance and equality among their citizens and in their legal order,

1. Strongly condemns any discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation;

2. Calls on Member States to ensure that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are protected from homophobic hate speech and violence and ensure that same-sex partners enjoy the same respect, dignity and protection as the rest of society; (italic part was kept in with a majority of 539 in favour and 58 against, roll call vote list in attachment)

3. Urges Member States and the Commission to firmly condemn homophobic hate speech or incitement to hatred and violence, and to ensure that freedom of demonstration – guaranteed by all human rights treaties - is respected in practice;

4. Calls on the Commission to ensure that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in all sectors is prohibited by completing the anti-discrimination package based on Article 13 either by proposing new directives or by proposing a general framework, covering all grounds for discrimination and all sectors;

5. Urges Member States and the Commission to step up the fight against homophobia through education – such as campaigns against homophobia in schools, in universities and in the media - as well as through administrative, judicial and legislative means;[/b]

6. Reiterates its position with regard to 'Year 2007 - Equality for All' that the Commission must ensure that all forms of discrimination referred to in Article 13 of the Treaty and in Article 2 of the Decision establishing the Year are addressed and dealt with equally, as referred to in the European Parliament's report on the proposal for a decision of the European Parliament and the Council on the European Year of Equal Opportunities for All (2007) - Towards a Just Society, and reminds the European Commission of its promise to closely monitor this matter and to report to Parliament;

7. Urges the Commission to ensure that all Member States have transposed and are correctly implementing Directive 2000/78/EC (establishing a general framework for equal treatment in employment and occupation) and to start infringement proceedings against those Member States that fail to do so; in addition, calls on the Commission to ensure that the annual report on the protection of fundamental rights in the EU includes full and comprehensive information on the incidence of homophobic hate crimes and violence in Member States;

8.. Urges the Commission to come up with a proposal for a directive on protection against discrimination on the basis of all the grounds mentioned in Article 13 of the EC Treaty, having the same scope as Directive 2000/43/EC;

9.. Urges the Commission to consider the use of criminal penalties in cases of violation of Article 13 directives;

10. Calls on all Member States to take any other action they deem appropriate in the fight against homophobia and discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation and to promote and implement the principle of equality in their society and legal order;

11. Urges Member States to enact legislation to end discrimination faced by same-sex partners in the areas of inheritance, property arrangements, tenancy, pensions, tax, social security etc.;

12. Welcomes steps taken in several Member States recently to improve the position of LGBT people and resolves to organise a seminar for the exchange of good practice on 17 May (International Day against Homophobia);

13. Reiterates its request that the European Commission put forward proposals guaranteeing freedom of movement for Union citizens and their family members and registered partners of either gender, as referred to in Parliament's resolution of 14 October 2004 on the future of the area of freedom, security and justice;

14. Calls on the Member States concerned to finally fully recognise homosexuals as targets and victims of the Nazi regime;

15. Instructs its President to forward this resolution to Commission and to the Governments of the Member States and candidate and applicant countries.

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I'm thinking of the real world where the ACLU represents pedophiles as having free speech rights. I'm thinking of seperation of church and state silencing Christians when in fact there is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state. In "fact" it is exactly the opposite. Governmant can do nothing about religion at all. Read it for yourself. You'll find it in what is called the "first" amendment. Yet the Gay Agenda is legal in schools and Christianity is illegal.

Thomas Jefferson said that the first amendment was created to erect a wall between church and state.

Thomas jeferson was just a guy, and a Christian bashing guy at that. Why is his "opinion" important?

The first amendment states specifically that no law shall be passed regarding the establishment of a religion. The first amendment is not an absolute right to say whatever you want, you still have to adhere to other laws in addition you cannot say things which might cause harm to others.

A declaration of war on Christianity. Plain and simple. OK.

The traditional example given is that you can't yell fire in a theater when there is no fire.

Or that anal and oral sex should be minority class qualifiers???????? Incredibly loudly proclaimed.

You have misread the first amendment, if what you say is true then there would be nothing stopping a pimp calling his business aphrodite worship and himself the high priest.

Your question is answered by MTV. Pimps are priests of a religion. Ask Black Christians?

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"NEW LAWS." Until the homosexual political juggernaut Christians could teach morality and natural behavior as good subject matter. NOW that is a hate crime.

What difference does the age of a statute make?

Uhh yeah. It proves what I am saying is based on facts. The criminaiization of Christians. You have the right to side with anti-Christians.

For that matter how old does a law have to be before you will allow it?

As old as human anatome and physiology. I'm cool with darwinism on that.

Either way your argument is laughable in this regard, all laws were new at one time or another.

What is not laughable is Rosie using children for sodomy.

The homosexual political juggernaut? What has the right wing fundamentalist Christian political juggernaut been doing?

Defending rationality. Defending against the attack of the Gay Agenda on social decency.

I'm pretty sure that there are many more right wing conservative Christians holding office than homosexuals. I can also pretty much guarantee that the right wingers have tons more money than the homosexuals could ever hope for. What ever happened to the Christian coalition or the moral majority?

How many people voted for Bush? Ever heard of conservative Democrats? I know many now from my travels to Chicago.

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The First Amendment pal. Sex acts are not a civil rights, culture or community qualifiers. Except in the world of prostitues. Do the math.

Not anyones fault but your own for not understanding that theres more to homosexuality than the "mechanics as you say.

The word "homosexuality" was invented for both mechanics and mental disorder. Both have been effectively attacked and re-written by the Gay Agenda.

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She was right. It is illegal.

I guess you don't know much about the law either then.

We will see if the homosexual politicians get to use the Uruh Act as a way of further criminalizing Christianity. I wonder what would happen to a Christian in prison? Actually the evidence is in.

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I told her to sue me. I do not scare easily from reprobate threats.

Please tell me you were just joking with her.

Why? It is her right to both the courts and to be a reprobate.

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Its called maturing just as people do so do nations.

In Roman society it was called "declining." A famous book tried to blame Christians for that too. Those involved in perversions don't like to be stopped. Ask Larry Flint?

In any society there is usually a rise, maturation and then a decline, sometimes with repetitions. Please refrain from oversimplification or lies in order to make a point.

I have not lied once. Please point out where if you think I did?

As far as your pervert point is concerned you are absolutely right, after all at the time Christianity was just a bunch of crazy perverts.

You forgot the ellipsis. "after all at the time Christianity was just a bunch of crazy perverts . . ."

". . . that left their perverted lives to follow Christ." That is still happening right now. But just not in liberal Churches.

"Some" were perverts that changed and left perversions and lived the life God wanted them to live. It's in the Bible.

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They become Democrats, liberals, progressives and atheists. Though some Democrats I know are crawling out of the gutter.

Please refer to the above reply about oversimplification or lies.

Again I have done nothing but state the facts. Please call Reverend James Meeks. He leads a massive Black congragtion in Chicago. He has stated that he is going to run for governor over abortion and same-sex marriage issues. Call him. I did.

I liar I have been but not on these threads.

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Last time I looked Jesus was a middle easterner and Martin Luther King Jr. was a Black guy. Christianity is anything BUT discriminating!!! Call your local Korean or Coptic congregation and ask. I love to do research. Don't you?

Yes you should always start out research by looking up the terms you are speaking of, since when is discrimination only about skin color or nation of origin?

I'm sorry? What time is blue? I cannot answer absurdity with a rational response.

I have never once said discrimination is "just" about skin color or nation of origin. Please do the research. Christians come in every color and are in even Islamic countries and San Francisco. Very few though.

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I say this because there is no generic christianity as you well know, can you tell me which is the "true" faith.

Family is a good place to start. Marriage and family the way Jesus described it.

Okay, could you answer the original question please?

The Gospel.

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By Muslims? It happens all the time. Did you see the Coptic Church where a knife-weilding man went into the Church on this Good Friday and killed stabbed a person to death and injured several more? That would be "today."

Did I say that the vandalism was done by moslems? Thank you for the bigoted stereotype.

Bigoted stereotypes? Or, just facts that can be seen? You have an odd perspective about the word "stereotypes."

Again you fail to actually answer the original question, this is becoming a trend with you.

Denying the Gospel is a trend I see in responses like yours.

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Did you know that while we typed on our keyboards Christians in African countries were just slaughtered in numbers we cannot imagine?

I would guess you don't have much of an imagination.

I don't need an imagination to know what is happening to Christians. All I need is eyesight and hearing in proper anatomical working order.

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26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

Do you consider yourself religious John?

No. I just view the facts and pass them on.

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But that is YOUR religious world; I'm not coming any nearer to your perspective, than I already have (I once held the kind of views you now hold (imagine that).

I once held the views you do now. No one has to imagine that as I am just one of millions and millions that lived the opposite of a Godly life.

You both flip flopped on your views using the same book as your guide, hmm.

I flipped away from being a non-Christian that believed sexual perversion was acceptable to a Christian that believes in the Gospel and New Testament. How can a person believe in sexual perversion as a non-Christian, become a Christian, and believe in sexual perversion as OK?

Please use the Gospel or New Testament letters as the answer??????

I certainly flip-flopped. But certainly changed my views.

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Pax Romana didn't last Melikio. Ameirca isn't even 250-years old and is nothing unique on the world's stage. Christ Jesus and the followers of the Way, the Truth and the Life are entering millenia three.

China is a couple hundred years into its third millenia as a state, so whats your point?

Same China as the Ming Dynasty?

Time for research.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:29 am

Way back in post 1291 I asked, "So, in testing the new Hate Speech Laws, the courts seem to have ruled that Christians are allowed to voice their opposition to homosexuality. So, where is it that Christianity is being outlawed in the USA?" and in post 1292 1John answered, "California and Massachusetts." Then in post 1295, I showed that the examples shown so far by 1John do not show that Christianity is being outlawed in the USA. Finally, in post 1317 1John admits, "That a Christian has not been arrested and convicted 'in America' just shows the date and not the counter to Christianity being criminalized."
I am not quite sure what that means, but it seems to be an admission that his statment that Christianity is outlawed in the USA is, in his view, still forthcoming, not yet actualized. It takes this long to pin 1John down and get him to admit what is truth and what is hyperbole, yet he calls me the school-yard bully. Why? No wonder this thread is now 132 pages long.

Debating Christianity and Religion

Sodom, Greece, Rome and homosexuality.

Sodom, Greece, Rome and homosexuality.

No flip-flop.