Women, is this overtly chauvinistic

[Greatest I Am]

Women, is this overtly chauvinistic?

1 Timothy

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed; then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression.
2:15 Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

I believe in equality of the sexes. I believe that all souls and natures are created perfect and of the same value to God.

Is it right then for religions to place women at the back of the bus while men take the beat seats?

How do you feel about being consigned to being followers and never leaders, forever?
If you happen to be a Gay female, how do you feel about having to hang from the rear bumper of the same bus?

Regards
DL

[onefaith]

If you think women and men are equal then how do you feel about women not getting paid as much as men are? The bible didn't say anything about that. That's our country. That's how the world works. Women in the middle east having to cover head to toe isn't what the bible says to do. There they can't hold jobs or anything. They're just child bearers. Many women are men's possessions. Why go off on the bible when there's countries out there who treat women worse?

[Beto]

If you think women and men are equal then how do you feel about women not getting paid as much as men are? The bible didn't say anything about that. That's our country. That's how the world works. Women in the middle east having to cover head to toe isn't what the bible says to do. There they can't hold jobs or anything. They're just child bearers. Many women are men's possessions. Why go off on the bible when there's countries out there who treat women worse?

Do two wrongs make a right?

[AvalonXQ]

Personally, I find this particular set of doctrinal principles to be some of the most troubling to follow. I, too, am a strong believer in gender equality, and yet the Bible clearly spells out separate and different roles for men and women.
I conclude that a woman's role in the church is not "less than" a man's, even though she does not have authority.
I should also point out that all positions of leadership in the church, according to Scripture, must be held by married men.
In practice, overseers' wives carry out important roles of leadership as well (and there is Biblical support for this).

[Allie]

I believe that women are equal to men. I also think that women can teach, hold authority over men, etc. I understand and have read what the Bible says on this subject.

I believe that there are principles under every commandment. These principles, when reading the Bible, are what I take away. Sure the Bible says clearly that women are under men, but that was in a letter to a church in a very different culture and time. Our culture today doesn't have anything close to that point of view. Back then, women were worth very little. It was disrespectful for a woman to have her head uncovered, or to talk in church. After they became Christians, women realized they were free in Christ, and it was true, but Paul was saying that we should not be a stumbling block for others. These women were hindering the gospel--not helping it. He was saying, in essence, "Be respectful! Don't divide the church!"

In our culture, saying that women are under men would hinder the gospel. If God wrote us a letter, I do not think he would tell us that women are under men, because that would definitely alienate people. I know it made me angry the first time I read it. However, now I believe that the principles need to be taken away: Don't divide the church, and respect one another.

[Beto]

I know it made me angry the first time I read it. However, now I believe that the principles need to be taken away: Don't divide the church, and respect one another.

The "principles" are common to other holy books. If they're what matters, than why hold the Bible as special over the others, and be Christian?

[McCulloch]

I believe that women are equal to men. I also think that women can teach, hold authority over men, etc. I understand and have read what the Bible says on this subject.

I believe that there are principles under every commandment. These principles, when reading the Bible, are what I take away. Sure the Bible says clearly that women are under men, but that was in a letter to a church in a very different culture and time. Our culture today doesn't have anything close to that point of view. Back then, women were worth very little. It was disrespectful for a woman to have her head uncovered, or to talk in church. After they became Christians, women realized they were free in Christ, and it was true, but Paul was saying that we should not be a stumbling block for others. These women were hindering the gospel--not helping it. He was saying, in essence, "Be respectful! Don't divide the church!"

In our culture, saying that women are under men would hinder the gospel. If God wrote us a letter, I do not think he would tell us that women are under men, because that would definitely alienate people. I know it made me angry the first time I read it. However, now I believe that the principles need to be taken away: Don't divide the church, and respect one another.

Do you think that Paul limits this instruction as simply a cultural context:

Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

[Allie]

The "principles" are common to other holy books. If they're what matters, than why hold the Bible as special over the others, and be Christian?

The Bible is about what I believe, what my God said (and did) and what Jesus taught. Other books may have the principles (many written things recognize good principles), but other holy books do not have Christ. I am a Christian because I think Christ is vital.

[Allie]

Do you think that Paul limits this instruction as simply a cultural context:

Ephesians 5:22-24 (New American Standard Bible) wrote:
Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

Yes, but the principles remain the same. Respect and not dividing the church are vital today as well as back then.

[Wellington]

Yes, but the principles remain the same. Respect and not dividing the church are vital today as well as back then.

At what cost? The ends do not justify the means.