Prophicies Fulfilled

[juber3]

According to the Bible KJV i have seen many prophicies being fulfilled such as the nation of israel being rebuilt. There shall be wars and rumors of wars Sound like Afghanistna and Iraq to me. Babalyon shall be rebuilt in the last days. Please see that IRAQ is where babylon is at. . Men shall be lusting after their own self. If these prohicies are being fulfilled amongst Americans and the World, then why dont people believe

[samuelbb7]

Thanks for the web site I will look it up when I get some time. I have written a small paper on a very important prophecy in the bible.

70 WEEKS OF DANIEL

The Bible has in the middle of Daniel the time prophecy of the first coming of JESUS CHRIST and what would happen when he came. It reads:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You will need the verses in Daniel 9:24-27.
The starting of the 70 weeks is dated from 457 B.C. when the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given. You can read about it in Ezra 6:14 and chapter 7. It took forty-nine difficult years to rebuild Jerusalem as told in Ezra and Nehemiah. Seven weeks of years or one year for each day brings us to 434 B.C. That leaves us sixty-two weeks of years or 434 years.

The two together or sixty-nine weeks of year is 483 years. When you take 483 and subtract 457 you get 26 A.D. the year of the baptism of JESUS CHRIST. Three and one half years-latter JESUS was crucified sealing the covenant with his blood. This was in the midst of the Seventieth week just as the Bible had foretold. Then three and one half years after that is the approximate date of the killing of Stephen the first martyr of Christianity and the beginning of spreading the gospel to gentiles. Thus the seventy weeks are over.

In prophetic time a day is assigned for a year.

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, [even] forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, [even] forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Tell me what you think.

[youngborean]

I enjoyed your mathematical excercise. However, I don't think that it is necessary to say "a day is a year" in prophetic times. This is not a rule that is always true, nor is it needed from the text. The word that is translated week is sheva, literally. This can either mean a week or a period of seven years as in Genesis when dealing with Jacob waiting for Rachel. It is also implicit in Daniel that the "Seven" in this case is a seven year period because it describes half of the final sheva as 1,290 days.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

[Amadeus]

Start with the prophesies of the Old Testament. See how those have been fulfilled. Investigate the prophesies of the coming Messiah, and you will find that Jesus Was that Messiah. Once you have seen that the Old testament prophesies can be trusted, since the same God inspired the New Covenant, you will be able to have faith that the Prophesies in Revelation, Matthew (and Daniel, too) will be fulfilled also.

[JamesBrown]

Start with the prophesies of the Old Testament.

Any examples? Most prophecies are the "Some day our prince will come" variety that can be "fulfilled' in a variety of ways. What's amazing to me is how many prophecies are identified as such only after they are supposedly fulfilled.

Perfect example. Matthew has the birth of Jesus surrounded by danger and suspense. To avoid a jealous ruler, Joseph takes his family down to Egypt, of all places. Then after a while, he comes back. Then Matthew says, See? That's a fulfilled prophecy! The people of Israel went to Egypt, and a long time later, they came back! And so did Jesus! God even said, Out of Egypt I have called my son."

Of course, the prophecy has a problem in that it is written in past tense. "Out of Egypt I have called my son" is not a prediction of future events. It is a description of past events. It's no more a prophecy than saying, "Yesterday I ate pizza." Even if I eat pizza again at some undisclosed time in the future, that doesn't mean I am a prophet nor a fulfiller of prophecy. If all a Messiah has to do to fulfill prophecy is go to Egypt and back, then every trader, every pilgrim, every soldier or traveler who happens to go from Palestine to Egypt and back is suddenly a Messianic hopeful. At best, all Matthew can say about this story is that it is a parallel. But parallels are in the eye of the chronicler.

Tell you what. Find an Orthodox Jew, one who is still waiting for a Messiah to come and save Israel, and who does not believe that Jesus fit the bill. Ask him or her if this really is a messianic prophecy. Ask them if that means that everyone who flies on a plane from Tel Aviv to Cairo and back is their Messiah. Ask them if they keep birth records of everyone born in Bethlehem, since Matthew told us that the Messiah will be born there. Ask them if they study the newspapers for written accounts of virgins giving birth. After all, the Jews and Christians should agree completely on what the prophecies are, right? They only disagree about who fulfilled them.

[Dilettante]

That's a nice exercise in interpretation, samuelbb7. But most Bible scholars say Daniel is not talking about the future, but about contemporary events (happening in his day). As with most prophecies (Nostradamus or the Oracle at Delphi are good examples) his are not worded clearly enough to be testable. "Successful" prophecies always use ambiguous language, because we can usually predict everything but the future.

[youngborean]

You say most. But I have never heard any argue that Chapter 9 was in the day of Daniel. Perhaps you could cite a few that claim that Chapter 9 doesn't concern the future. It was also treated as such in the New Testament (Mat 24:15), meaning that it must have been interpreted as distant prophecy in that time period. I would hardly say that it was ambigous to predict when the Messiah would be "cut off". Some of Daniel's prophecies were written about the immediate future and are difficult to test. However, the 70 weeks prophecy even start Jewish sages writing that Bar Cochba was the Messiah.

[Dilettante]

You say most. But I have never heard any argue that Chapter 9 was in the day of Daniel. Perhaps you could cite a few that claim that Chapter 9 doesn't concern the future. It was also treated as such in the New Testament (Mat 24:15), meaning that it must have been interpreted as distant prophecy in that time period. I would hardly say that it was ambigous to predict when the Messiah would be "cut off". Some of Daniel's prophecies were written about the immediate future and are difficult to test. However, the 70 weeks prophecy even start Jewish sages writing that Bar Cochba was the Messiah.

Well, I debated this elsewhere in this forum and I won't abuse your patience or anyone lese's by repeating myself. If you want to check out what I wrote, it's here:
http://www.debatingchristianity.com/for ... &start=180

[youngborean]

I was able to find a few attempts to say that Chap 9 isn't speaking of the future. However, combining the internal evidence from the text it is impossible to say that each Week is not a seven year period. We have to work backwards, but it is quite simple.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This place it speaks of the abomination that causes desolation to occur in the middle of the week.

12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Here is the event described again. Where we see that the amount of time from the beginning of the 70th week to the middle of the week is 1260 days, 3.5 years. Making each Seven a period of seven years and not days. That is the only explanantion that is properly support from the text. Chapter 9 would inherently have to be talking about a time period of approximately 500 years. Unless, you have proper textual evidence to dispute this point. To simply state that Daniel is only repeating Jeremiah because another scholar is a bit simplistic. Especially when there is internal evidence within Daniel to refute a 70 year assertion. Also, no where is the number seven translated year.

[China Cat Sunflower]

James,

Perfect example. Matthew has the birth of Jesus surrounded by danger and suspense. To avoid a jealous ruler, Joseph takes his family down to Egypt, of all places. Then after a while, he comes back. Then Matthew says, See? That's a fulfilled prophecy! The people of Israel went to Egypt, and a long time later, they came back! And so did Jesus! God even said, Out of Egypt I have called my son."

Of course, the prophecy has a problem in that it is written in past tense. "Out of Egypt I have called my son" is not a prediction of future events. It is a description of past events. It's no more a prophecy than saying, "Yesterday I ate pizza." Even if I eat pizza again at some undisclosed time in the future, that doesn't mean I am a prophet nor a fulfiller of prophecy. If all a Messiah has to do to fulfill prophecy is go to Egypt and back, then every trader, every pilgrim, every soldier or traveler who happens to go from Palestine to Egypt and back is suddenly a Messianic hopeful. At best, all Matthew can say about this story is that it is a parallel. But parallels are in the eye of the chronicler.

Very well stated. What's going on here with Matthew is that he's reworking a classic theme. If you read the Bible, starting at the beginning in Genesis and working your way through you'll see this process of reworking major themes over and over. It doesn't mean the Bible is bunk or it's later authors are plagerists, it just demonstrates the writer's process.

Of course these prophecies and major themes from the OT show up in the NT, that shows how the authors found thier inspiration.

Chris

[Dilettante]

You say most. But I have never heard any argue that Chapter 9 was in the day of Daniel. Perhaps you could cite a few that claim that Chapter 9 doesn't concern the future. It was also treated as such in the New Testament (Mat 24:15), meaning that it must have been interpreted as distant prophecy in that time period. I would hardly say that it was ambigous to predict when the Messiah would be "cut off". Some of Daniel's prophecies were written about the immediate future and are difficult to test. However, the 70 weeks prophecy even start Jewish sages writing that Bar Cochba was the Messiah.

Yes, but those prophecies do not mention Jesus by name or by any clearly identifiable feature.
I said most sources, but that of course needs to be qualified: I'm speaking from definite cultural backgrounds, the Spanish speaking world and Western Europe. I'll try to find English language sources for you to examine. Alternatively, I could try to translate the most significant Spanish fragments into English for you when I have some free time.

As an overview, what I have most often read is this:

1. Daniel was written by an unknown author approximately between 165-164 BC.
2. It was the last book to be accepted into the Jewish canon, around 90 AD, and it was placed in "Writings" rather than with the prophets.
3. It's an apocalyptic book rather than a prophetic one.
4. Its purpose is to comfort the Jews and encourage them to persevere in their faith despite growing pressures.
5. At the time, the Jews were suffering under the oppression of Seleucid king Antiochus IV (175-164 BC).
6. Many of Daniel's prophetic dreams refer to the political intrigues of the day.
7. Several of his specific predictions about the immediate future of the Alexandrian/Seleucid and Ptolomeic kingdoms were not fulfilled.

A fair and balanced skeptical source is Tim Callahan (author of The Secret Origins of The Bible and also Bible Prophecies. Failure or Fulfillment?").