Are Muslims christians?

[sin_is_fun]

Only believers go to heaven and the rest go to hell.Fine,but who are the believers?Obviosuly those who believe in jesus and his teachings.

Such believers are called as christians.But what is the definition of the term christian?THis definition is important since we should know who is a christian and who isnt, since non-christians are allegedly headed to hell.

www.dictionary.com defines a christian as follows

1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

The problem here is "what is the religion that follows the teachings of Jesus?" and "who lives according to the teachings of jesus?"

many religions claim that they are the true followers of christ.For example Islam.Muslims say that they are the true followers of jesus.

So what is the criteria to be called as a christian and enter into heaven?

1)If it is acceptance of jesus as a way to reach god-well muslims,mormons,jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as a way to reach god.

2) If it is acceptance of trinity-well unitary christians dont accept jesus as god.In fact trinity was decided by the meeting held under constantine and till that there was confusion about jesus as a prophet or god.

There is every chance that a real believer in jesus might have been a unitary christian then,since the position of the church wasnt clearcut till that meeting.So belief in trinity cannot be a criteria for entry into heaven.


I am not entering into techinicalities of trinity vs unitary or differences between islam and christianity.Muslims believe that they follow the right path shown by jesus.so will they be denied entry into heaven?If yes,why?

If it can be argued that they dont follow the right path, then even in christianity there are various sects which are different from each other.Catholics believe in "faith and deeds" whereas protestents believe in faith alone as the way to salvation,so only one of these groups are following the "right path".where are the rest headed to?

so what is the parameter used by god to refuse the sects that follow jesus like muslims,jehovah's witness , mormon's etc to heaven and allow catholics,protestents etc only to heaven?

[mujahid263]

Muslims do not claim that they will go to heaven but "to a garden where underneath flows rivers of waters"

No actually we do go to heaven (and Hell), its referred to as the Garden though because of its beauty. Islam doesn't guarantee Muslims Heaven, if we're naughty we are very likely to go to Hell in our religon (God forbid).

[otseng]

No actually we do go to heaven (and Hell), its referred to as the Garden though because of its beauty. Islam doesn't guarantee Muslims Heaven, if we're naughty we are very likely to go to Hell in our religon (God forbid).

I've always wondered, how can a Muslim enter heaven? Is there an objective set of criteria that must be met in order to pass the test?

BTW, I've moved this topic to the "Other Religions" subforum.

[unprofitable servant]

No actually we do go to heaven (and Hell), its referred to as the Garden though because of its beauty.

I've waited so long to speak to someone of the surrender to see if things I have been learning are true or just my trying to fight against everything people teach today.

Could you tell me what surah the recitings say this.

Thank you

[Dilettante]

Muslims do not claim that they will go to heaven but "to a garden where underneath flows rivers of waters"

No actually we do go to heaven (and Hell), its referred to as the Garden though because of its beauty. Islam doesn't guarantee Muslims Heaven, if we're naughty we are very likely to go to Hell in our religon (God forbid).

Not only is there a Heaven and a Hell in the Muslim religion, but the Christian idea of Hell we all formed after reading Dante actually comes from Islam. Dante borrowed a lot of the Islamic imagery of Hell for his "Divina Commedia".

Along other lines, I never understood why Muslim warriors expect to go to a special place in Heaven with a bunch of virgins at their service, while female Muslim martyrs are not, as far as I know, promised a Heaven full of attractive men. Isn't that a bit sexist?

[MagusYanam]

Actually, the term most likely used by Jesus (and most of the Jewish community of the time) when referring to the afterlife, which was eventually translated into English as 'heaven' was gan Eden - the Garden of Eden. It should also be noted that another term used for Heaven in English-speaking Christendom is Paradise (another fun fact: the word 'paradise' comes from the Avestan Iranian term pairidaeza, meaning an enclosed orchard or garden, and still carries the original Iranian connotation today).

The term 'heaven' really just stems from an old Teutonic word for 'sky' (mod. Icel. himinn, Du. hemel, G. Himmel), which is how most converted pagans would have thought of the afterlife.

But, unprofitable servant, I do agree with you on your point otherwise. I have come to consider several Muslims my friends, some of whom were far better, more intelligent and generous people than I am. At its best, Islam is truly a noble and generous faith, and if God is good and just He shouldn't hold it against its followers. We who should most strive after Jesus' example should most definitely not hold Islam in contempt, or presume to judge.

[mujahid263]

Otseng:

I've always wondered, how can a Muslim enter heaven? Is there an objective set of criteria that must be met in order to pass the test?

There is 5 pillars of Islam and a number of rules you must follow. Straying fro God's law once in awhile isn't going to necessarily send a Muslim to Hell, this is left up to God to decide. But in some cases Allah(swt) makes it very clear of things for which people go to Hell.

Unprofitable Servent:

Could you tell me what surah the recitings say this.

You weren't wrong in that there is a garden under which rivers etc. of many things flow. But this is used as a name for the Muslim heaven, although we also have other "heavens" but that is mainly due to translation in which it was hard for translators like Pickthall to find English words matching. For example, the Quran says heavens are divided into 7 layers. This could mean the skys above us or the actual paradise. It was often confused due to translation and use of heavens for both sky and paradise.

So many translations use paradise and gardens or the gardens of paradise or the gardens of heaven.

4.124 . And whoso doeth good works , whether of male or female , and he ( or she ) is a believer , such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date stone

2.82 . And those who believe and do good works : such are rightful owners of the garden . They will abide therein

18.107 . Lo! those who believe and do good works , theirs are the Gardens of paradise , for welcome

Dilettante:

Along other lines, I never understood why Muslim warriors expect to go to a special place in Heaven with a bunch of virgins at their service, while female Muslim martyrs are not, as far as I know, promised a Heaven full of attractive men. Isn't that a bit sexist?

This is a matter of interpretation. According to many scholars, women wouldn't need so many of these virgins and would be content with only one hunk. But others may differ on this point.

But from an observational view point I don't see many women cheating on their husbands here in USA as compared to men doing the same. The women are usually contempt but many men I've seen have been unjust in this and they go and commit adultry.

Also to be regarded is that women are not required to fight jihad, this is the male's obligation. In many cases such as in Chechnya right now, women are fighting as well, but by religous laws, they don't have to.

But aside from just these virgins a martyr gets, martyrs die and immediatly go to heaven from there as well as other gifts etc.

MagusYunam:

At its best, Islam is truly a noble and generous faith, and if God is good and just He shouldn't hold it against its followers.

I guess I'll accept that as a compliment, as for what Islam teaches about Christianity:


2.62 . Lo! those who believe ( in that which is revealed unto thee , Muhammad ) , and those who are Jews , and christians , and Sabaeans whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right surely their reward is with their Lord , and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve .

5.69 . Lo! those who believe , and those who are Jews , and Sabaeans , and christians whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve

5.82 . Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who , believe ( to be ) the Jews and the idolaters . And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe ( to be ) those who say : Lo! We are christians . That is because there are among them priests and monks , and because they are not proud

22.17 . Lo! those who believe ( this Revelation ) , and those who are Jews , and the Sabaeans and the christians and the Magians and the idolaters . Lo! Allah will decide between them on the Day of Resurrection . Lo! Allah is Witness over all things


It's quite nice to see the additude of CHristians here towards Islam as compared to another forum I've been through.

[otseng]

It's quite nice to see the additude of CHristians here towards Islam as compared to another forum I've been through.

The overriding principle of this forum is respect. Those who are disrespectful will eventually leave this forum, either voluntarily or forcibly.

Personally, I wish there were more Muslims here (as well as people of other faiths).

I've always wondered, how can a Muslim enter heaven? Is there an objective set of criteria that must be met in order to pass the test?

There is 5 pillars of Islam and a number of rules you must follow. Straying fro God's law once in awhile isn't going to necessarily send a Muslim to Hell, this is left up to God to decide. But in some cases Allah(swt) makes it very clear of things for which people go to Hell.

So, it appears to me that there is not really an objective measure where a Muslim can be certain of heaven. But, there is an objective measure where a Muslim can be certain of not entering heaven.

Besides the 5 pillars, what are the other rules that Muslims needs to follow? What happens when a Muslim does not follow the 5 pillars (like for example never makes a pilgrimage to Mecca), does that automatically disqualify entrance into heaven?

[mujahid263]

So, it appears to me that there is not really an objective measure where a Muslim can be certain of heaven.

There is martyrdom, and certain other things.

But, there is an objective measure where a Muslim can be certain of not entering heaven.

No, there is an objective measure when you know that if you don't shape up that you're going to Hell. In some cases like murdering another Muslim on purpose, you know you'll go to Hell and are no longer a Muslim. But with most things that put us in danger of going to Hell, there is many ways to get forgiveness:

2.284 . Unto Allah ( belongeth ) whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth ; and whether ye make known what is in your minds or hide it , Allah will bring you to account for it . He will forgive whom He will and He will punish whom He will . Allah is Able to do all things

3.31 . Say , ( O Muhammad , to mankind ) : If ye love Allah , follow me ; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins . Allah is Forgiving , Merciful

2.199 . Then hasten onward from the place whence the multitude hasteneth onward , and ask forgiveness of Allah . Lo! Allah is Forgiving , Merciful

Hadith Qudsi.
Hadith Number 001 : The Authority Of Omar bin Al-Khattab
---------------------------------------------------------
I heared the messenger of Allah salla Allah u alihi wa sallam say : "Actions are but by intention and every man shall have but that which he intended. Thus he whose migration was for Allah and His messenger, his migration was for Allah and His messenger, and he whose migration was to achieve some worldly benefit or to take some woman in marriage, his migration was for that for which he migrated."

Reporters.
Related by Bukhari and Muslim.


Volume 9, Book 93, Number 605:

Narrated Safwan bin Muhriz:

A man asked Ibn 'Umar, "What have you heard from Allah's Apostle regarding An-Najwa?" He said, "Everyone of you will come close to His Lord Who will screen him from the people and say to him, 'Did you do so-and-so?' He will reply, 'Yes.' Then Allah will say, 'Did you do so-and-so?' He will reply, 'Yes.' So Allah will question him and make him confess, and then Allah will say, 'I screened your sins in the world and forgive them for you today.' "

==========================================

Besides the 5 pillars, what are the other rules that Muslims needs to follow?

Anything listed in Quran to be done and not to be done as well as those authentic things listed in ahadeeth to be done and not to be done.

For example, Muslims may not eat pigs, drink alchoholic drinks or take drugs (except for medical purposes), and they may not eat animals that were already dead (not slaughter, but diedof natural causes). And no drinking of blood. Incest, murder, theft, adultery, charging interest are all forbidden. Jihad is a man's obligation, a man must also look after family and children. Women must look after children and the spouse. Silk and wearing of gold by men is forbidden.

3.50* . And ( I come ) confirming that which was before me of the Torah , and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you . I come unto you with a sign from your Lord , so keep your duty to Allah and obey me

2.173 . He hath forbidden you only carrion , and blood , and swineflesh , and that which hath been immolated to ( the name of ) any other than Allah . But he who is driven by necessity , neither craving nor transgressing , it is no sin for him . Lo! Allah is Forgiving , Merciful .

*That was apparently what Jesus said.

What happens when a Muslim does not follow the 5 pillars (like for example never makes a pilgrimage to Mecca), does that automatically disqualify entrance into heaven?

I don't think anything is said about automaticlly being destined to Hell for disobeying the pillars, but it certainly isn't liked. AS for going on Hajj, there is great leneancy on this because it was taught that if a person is unable to do hajj in their lifetime, it will not be held against them. But if a person can do hajj, it is a requirement although I don't recall any verses saying a person who doesn't goes to Hell.

[Dilettante]

mujahid263 wrote:

In some cases like murdering another Muslim on purpose, you know you'll go to Hell and are no longer a Muslim. But with most things that put us in danger of going to Hell, there is many ways to get forgiveness

So, what if you:
a) murder a non-Muslim
or
b)kill someone unintentionally (this would not be "murder" since by definition murder is deliberate)
Although some Christian theologians have argued that mudering a tyrant can be justified as the lesser of two evils, I think that for most Christians murder is always wrong, regardless of who the victim is.
BTW, I have heard that for a Muslim, losing faith in Islam (apostasy) is a sin punishable with death. Is this true? If so, why can't apostates be forgiven, as they are in (present day) Christianity?

[mujahid263]

a) murder a non-Muslim

Execution. Although you remain Muslim and have a shot at heaven, its drasticly lowered.


2.178 . O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered ; the freeman for the freeman , and the slave for the slave , and the female for the female . And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his ( injured ) brother , prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness . This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord . He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom

There is also a verse regarding killing, that killing one man (any man no matter religon) is like killing off all of humanity. I couldn't remember or find it.

b)kill someone unintentionally (this would not be "murder" since by definition murder is deliberate)

Unintentional killings fall under a new category and there is no sin for them, God will judge if it was intentional or not:

4.92 . It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless ( it be ) by mistake . He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave , and pay the blood money to the family of the slain , unless they remit it as a charity . If he ( the victim ) be of a people hostile unto you , and he is a believer , then ( the penance is ) to set free a believing slave . And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant , then the blood money must be paid unto his folk and ( also ) a believing slave must be set free . And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months . A penance from Allah . Allah is Knower , Wise .

BTW, I have heard that for a Muslim, losing faith in Islam (apostasy) is a sin punishable with death. Is this true? If so, why can't apostates be forgiven, as they are in (present day) Christianity?

I'm not so sure of this. But this if is true would be in an Islamiclly governed land ONLY, if the person were to move to another land and declare apostasy there, then they can not be killed as shariah can not go beyond our border unless specificlly stated. And even though "heretics" and apostates are usually forgiven nowadays, I recall some people like specificlly someone by the name of Bruno in Europe who was killed in a very gruesome way.