What's the difference...

[Q]

::I didn't know where this topic belonged so feel free to move it...::

I used to tell myself that I would know God by just knowing in my mind. Either that or witnessing something supernatural that proved its existence. However after thinking about the possibilities of advanced alien races in ours (or other) universes, it doesn't seem as though I could even be certain about God. For example, if one day I woke up and somehow knew God was watching over me, there is no way to know if this is just a much more advanced alien race who is capable of manipulating our thoughts. Or if I witnessed something supernatural, what guarantees this is the result of a heavenly being and not just some superior intelligence whose brain has evolved further than our own and can perform tasks that seem supernatural to us. And what is God anyways? If an alien had somehow put us here, or designed us to evolve from apes, would followers of organized religion still worship this God with the same fervor as they do now? I apologize for rambling but I'm not sure how to phrase my questions... How do we know God is God and not some advanced alien race capable of performing things that seem impossible to us? If God turned out to be some advanced type of alien, would you (religious folk) still worship him with all your heart?

[QED]

Of course, we can always just be inside the matrix sleeping in the real world and acting as batteries powering the whole thing, but if we utilize a principle of parsimony, then we can rule out such wild notions without losing any sleep.

Do I detect a tiny bias here? Given the abundance of biochemicals in the cosmos I would be far more inclined to view any apparently supernatural goings-on as originating from an alien intelligence rather than some God type entity. People seem to have a knack for leaping to the least parsimonious conclusion (i.e. that circle in the crops or bright dot in the sky must be Aliens going about their business). Surely the next step up in this fallacy must be that some supernatural event or other must be God when it's infinitely more probable that it really is Aliens.

It doesn't mean we are right, but since almost anything is possible at any given moment, we ought to spend our time focusing on what really seems possible from what doesn't really seem possible.

In that sense, we can eliminate the idea that we can't tell the difference between God and ET. Presumably, ET would have many indications of them being from another planet, having a history, etc.. God, on the other hand, would be something that we could expect if we died. We should, I suppose, have some indication that we died (although no one knows for sure). In addition, God as a divine being would presumably not lie.

Who was it that said really good technology is equivalent to magic? Would an ancient egyptian pharaoh be able to tell the difference between a God a nd someone chatting on a video cellphone? I could easily imagine a hundred million years of technological advances to render an alien civilization totally unrecognizable from God.

[harvey1]

Surely the next step up in this fallacy must be that some supernatural event or other must be God when it's infinitely more probable that it really is Aliens.

If you mean is it possible for an alien to pretend to be God and be able to pull it off, then I suppose it is possible. On the other hand, there are certain attributes that God would be the favored interpretation. For example, if the Being said, "examine the digits of pi between the 15th billionth digit for the next 10 million digits. I put an HDTV signal (1280p) for you to watch and listen to what I have to say." That kind of proof would likely be God. It would seem unlikely than an ETI (extraterrestrial intelligence) could pull of that kind of charade.

I could easily imagine a hundred million years of technological advances to render an alien civilization totally unrecognizable from God.

As my example illustrates (which I borrowed from Carl Sagan), there's no question that this Being would be God.

[QED]

Surely the next step up in this fallacy must be that some supernatural event or other must be God when it's infinitely more probable that it really is Aliens.

If you mean is it possible for an alien to pretend to be God and be able to pull it off, then I suppose it is possible. On the other hand, there are certain attributes that God would be the favored interpretation. For example, if the Being said, "examine the digits of pi between the 15th billionth digit for the next 10 million digits. I put an HDTV signal (1280p) for you to watch and listen to what I have to say." That kind of proof would likely be God. It would seem unlikely than an ETI (extraterrestrial intelligence) could pull of that kind of charade.

I could easily imagine a hundred million years of technological advances to render an alien civilization totally unrecognizable from God.

As my example illustrates (which I borrowed from Carl Sagan), there's no question that this Being would be God.

Ahh, but recall my little computer program which will show you a picture of everything in the cosmos? Somewhere in Pi there could be your video. I'm not even sure it's a question of "could be" - it might be a dead cert!

However, I'm sympathetic to your view and while I don't like estimations of parsimony scribbled on napkins, I tend to think that if such a message could be pointed to that in itself would constitute a divine act (given the colossal numbers involved)

[harvey1]

Ahh, but recall my little computer program which will show you a picture of everything in the cosmos? Somewhere in Pi there could be your video. I'm not even sure it's a question of "could be" - it might be a dead cert!

As you sort of alluded, it might happen a googolplex^googolplex number of digits into pi, but such an elaborate video message would likely not happen so quickly into the digits (i.e., just outside of our ability to discover them in the near future). Of course, God could always be more subtle and have physicists someday discover that the physical constants are very unique to allow life. But, that would probably only be ignored by atheists (heck, who are we kidding, they'd ignore the video message too...).

[Cathar1950]

What about the Egyptians tossing their staff down and it turning into a snake. Then Moses tosses his down it turns into a snake and eats theirs?
Aliens, magic, technology who knows. Sure it is just a story. But a lot of stuff in the bible sounds like ufos. The Gods then God. Everybody coming from the sky breeding with humans. Do theses things happen? Maybe they always have we just look at things differently. Maybe we don't and just think we do. It all could be our imagination looking at some phenomena beyond most of our senses and experience. There is strange stuff going on in physics, Weird stuff. It is hard sometimes not to look at the whole universe as magic. It sure has some great technology. It is a human quality and it does not get left out of science. Some times it is a strong drive. Yet science is open to experience that is ever qualifying adapting and correcting.
I see in the bible tradition many views of God. There seems to be a difference between these views and the God of Philosophy. They often conflict and overlap. So maybe God is an alien. Maybe God is not an alien.
Maybe God is neither both or other or not. We have imaginations, desires, dreams, hopes, and creativity. We could still use all the help we can get. Would an alien? Woul d God? If so why or why not? Mostly who says so?

[QED]

Of course, God could always be more subtle and have physicists someday discover that the physical constants are very unique to allow life. But, that would probably only be ignored by atheists (heck, who are we kidding, they'd ignore the video message too...).

Now come on Harvey, that's not fair. You know full well that there is a plausible explanation for the physical constants. The existence of a "Harvey" is even more remarkable from the perspective of looking back down the causal chain that led to you. You simply won't win this argument by blocking the possibility that this is the only universe that ever there was. If you do stick to your guns then at what point do you consider the Copernican principle to no longer apply?