Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.
What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?
If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?
What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?
Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.
Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.
Pre-marital sex and relationships
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agnosticatheist
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Pre-marital sex and relationships
Post #1If it turns out there are one or more gods, then so be it.
If it turns out there are no gods, then thank reality that no one is going to suffer forever.
If it turns out there are no gods, then thank reality that no one is going to suffer forever.
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Wootah
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Re: Pre-marital sex and relationships
Post #11[Replying to Yahu]
I think you should be able to see how you are defining pharisee so that you can protect your beliefs. I am willing to entertain that some things are sins but matters would be worse by breaking the situation.
Didnt Jesus tell the pharisees that God permitted divorce because their hearts were hard? Divorce is not part of God's plan but there is a rule for it. Consequently we don't expect Christians to be pro-divorce - right?
Whenever we are arguing that something is lawful we are potentially in the pharisees trap.
I think you should be able to see how you are defining pharisee so that you can protect your beliefs. I am willing to entertain that some things are sins but matters would be worse by breaking the situation.
Didnt Jesus tell the pharisees that God permitted divorce because their hearts were hard? Divorce is not part of God's plan but there is a rule for it. Consequently we don't expect Christians to be pro-divorce - right?
Whenever we are arguing that something is lawful we are potentially in the pharisees trap.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."Re: Pre-marital sex and relationships
Post #12[Replying to Wootah]
The way I see it is the Law is a teaching tool to allow us to see Yah's heart. You have to look to see why something is sin and understand that. Once you do, you can apply the same attitudes towards every aspect of your life whether there is a law concerning it or not.
Now on the sexual aspects, I was in a conflict with a coven that had recreated the worship of the groves. They had weekly week-end orgies and were a major distributor of date rape drugs. That is the type of sexual activity I see Yah being against. They were using sex to hurt people or to dominate men while dedicating their activities to their whore goddess of witchcraft. They even dedicated their abortions to their goddess to gain additional power in their witchcraft. I don't see Yah being against any sexual relationship that is a loving heterosexual one based on agreement, ie covenant as long as the woman isn't already married or engaged to another man. Of course it can't be against your covenant with your wife either. In my case, my wife specifically released me from my vow of exclusivity.
So my position is don't hurt someone with sexual activity. That is what makes it a sin IMO.
The way I see it is the Law is a teaching tool to allow us to see Yah's heart. You have to look to see why something is sin and understand that. Once you do, you can apply the same attitudes towards every aspect of your life whether there is a law concerning it or not.
Now on the sexual aspects, I was in a conflict with a coven that had recreated the worship of the groves. They had weekly week-end orgies and were a major distributor of date rape drugs. That is the type of sexual activity I see Yah being against. They were using sex to hurt people or to dominate men while dedicating their activities to their whore goddess of witchcraft. They even dedicated their abortions to their goddess to gain additional power in their witchcraft. I don't see Yah being against any sexual relationship that is a loving heterosexual one based on agreement, ie covenant as long as the woman isn't already married or engaged to another man. Of course it can't be against your covenant with your wife either. In my case, my wife specifically released me from my vow of exclusivity.
So my position is don't hurt someone with sexual activity. That is what makes it a sin IMO.
Post #13
I am of the opinion that you should have sexual relations before marriage. You should find out as much as you can about all aspects of your relationship before you get married. Sex is an important part of marriage, especially in the early years, and you need to ensure you are compatible.
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Post #14
The problem is that you aren't learning the important stuff by that method. Ideally what you should do is temporarily paralyze your potential partner for a year and take care of them. If you can do that then perhaps that wold be a better test than simply enjoying the fruits of the relationship?JJ50 wrote: I am of the opinion that you should have sexual relations before marriage. You should find out as much as you can about all aspects of your relationship before you get married. Sex is an important part of marriage, especially in the early years, and you need to ensure you are compatible.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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JoeyKnothead
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Re: Pre-marital sex and relationships
Post #16agnosticatheist wrote: Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.
Don't expect a lot of women to be groveling at your feet here. We are already prone to self consciousness about our looks. It seems shallow to want to test run sex to see if you like it before you marry someone.agnosticatheist wrote:What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?
If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?
You are kidding....right? If you love a person, and you are going to get married, then anatomical differences shouldn't matter. Sex hasn't kept a relationship together too long.agnosticathiest wrote:What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?
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Post #17
Plenty of people have sex before marriage. That does not seem to be lessening divorce rates. So I don't think 'test driving' the car is having much of an impact.
That is not a judgment against anyone who has sex without being (legally) married. I would be a hypocrite to expect from others what I could not do, myself. I just don't particularly agree with the argument being presented. And unless you are planning to have a sexual relationship for years before getting married - even if you were compatible at first - needs and desires change.
Peace to you!
That is not a judgment against anyone who has sex without being (legally) married. I would be a hypocrite to expect from others what I could not do, myself. I just don't particularly agree with the argument being presented. And unless you are planning to have a sexual relationship for years before getting married - even if you were compatible at first - needs and desires change.
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Post #18
Likewise, those waiting until marriage before sex aren't any more likely to stay together than those who do. The problem is there are way too many other issues at play when it comes to the success of a marriage. Being celibate until marriage or even having Jesus in the relationship is no guarantee. Neither is test driving. However test driving surely has to be better than never test driving at all.tam wrote: Plenty of people have sex before marriage. That does not seem to be lessening divorce rates. So I don't think 'test driving' the car is having much of an impact.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
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Post #19
Agreed.OnceConvinced wrote:Likewise, those waiting until marriage before sex aren't any more likely to stay together than those who do. The problem is there are way too many other issues at play when it comes to the success of a marriage. Being celibate until marriage or even having Jesus in the relationship is no guarantee.tam wrote: Plenty of people have sex before marriage. That does not seem to be lessening divorce rates. So I don't think 'test driving' the car is having much of an impact.
Do the stats show this? Or is it just an opinion?Neither is test driving. However test driving surely has to be better than never test driving at all.
I'm not knocking you if it is an opinion... as I am sure you have reasons for the opinion.. but the stats do not appear to back this opinion, since divorce rates are not lessening. Unless they are? If there is information showing that people who have sex with their partner before marrying that partner have more successful relationship, then that would be interesting. But I don't think such stats exist.
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Post #20
[Replying to post 18 by OnceConvinced]
Why does a person have to test drive sex? I find this to be a problem, not so much for the responsible who are going to get married and can support children, but for the people who test drive different models, and end up having little PT cruisers that they have no ability to maintain. These little cars go to different dealerships who try their best to maintain them until a new owner comes along.
Seriously OC, this tugs at my heart! Too many kids are coming into foster care because people test drive cars they have no intention of buying. How can that possibly be good?
Hello Once Convinced...hope you are well!OC wrote:However test driving surely has to be better than never test driving at all.
Why does a person have to test drive sex? I find this to be a problem, not so much for the responsible who are going to get married and can support children, but for the people who test drive different models, and end up having little PT cruisers that they have no ability to maintain. These little cars go to different dealerships who try their best to maintain them until a new owner comes along.
Seriously OC, this tugs at my heart! Too many kids are coming into foster care because people test drive cars they have no intention of buying. How can that possibly be good?
