Judge not?

[Zzyzx]

WHY does the bible judge people while saying 'judge not'?

WHY do Christians judge people while claiming to follow the bible that clearly says 'judge not'?

[POI]

I find it interesting that you accuse believers of changing the meaning of words to fit their purposes. For my own part, unless I state that I am making a specific point about the language, you may always assume that I am using the dictionary defition of the words.

I'm responding to what you stated here:

That said, I have noticed that people sometimes adjust the meaning of “judging” so that saying something is morally wrong is counted as judging the person. Under standard definitions, that’s not what the word means.

You are both the (pot and the kettle) here. See below...

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And to be clear: A book cannot judge people.

LOL! Here is where the pot and the kettle intertwine... Meaning --> context. You know, the term Christians accuse skeptics of taking things out of... The OP-er is quite aware that the book was written by humans. And the book states that Jesus will judge all. So please stop with the shenanigans bjs1. No one is buying what you are "selling". The author, or 'Jesus', is telling folks not to judge. And yet, both Jesus and Christians judge other's actions ad nauseum.

People who have been dead for thousands of years cannot judge people.

As to the above... Does this include Jesus? If so, then case closed. The Bible is just another book authored or inspired by humans alone.

If not, then I will again completely ignore the absurdity you posted above and reiterate that it is sinful to judge others, and yet both Jesus and Christians have no problem doing so - (despite Jesus's advisement not to).

[bjs1]

[Replying to POI in post #11]

I grow tired of these silly games and your personal insults. Let me see if I can at least state your argument correctly POI. Are you saying:

The Bible says that Jesus told people not to judge others.
The Bible says that Jesus will one day judge the living and the dead.
Therefore, Jesus is not following his own command.

Is this your argument? If not, state your argument plainly. If you cannot state your argument plainly then I will leave it to others to respond to you.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #11]

I grow tired of these silly games and your personal insults.

We are all growing tired, as the only one playing 'games' here is you bjs1.

The OP reads:

1) WHY does the bible judge people while saying 'judge not'?

2) WHY do Christians judge people while claiming to follow the bible that clearly says 'judge not'?

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Putting on my secret decoder pen, I'll translate:

1) Why does Jesus judge when he tells all others to "judge not"?
2) Isn't it also hypocritical, as a Jesus follower, (which is exactly what you just did here BTW - in judging my actions), for anyone at all to judge another, when Jesus states that such action(s) is immoral?

[bjs1]

[Replying to POI in post #11]

I grow tired of these silly games and your personal insults.

We are all growing tired, as the only one playing 'games' here is you bjs1.

The OP reads:

1) WHY does the bible judge people while saying 'judge not'?

2) WHY do Christians judge people while claiming to follow the bible that clearly says 'judge not'?

***************************

Putting on my secret decoder pen, I'll translate:

1) Why does Jesus judge when he tells all others to "judge not"?
2) Isn't it also hypocritical, as a Jesus follower, (which is exactly what you just did here BTW - in judging my actions), for anyone at all to judge another, when Jesus states that such action(s) is immoral?

Please explain and support your implicit claim that Jesus judges people.
Do you recognize that there is a difference between judging a person and talking about an action? See post 3.

[POI]

Please explain and support your implicit claim that Jesus judges people.

Sure, no problem:

John 5:22-24: The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son, 23 so that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. Anyone who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. 24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.

(and)

Acts 10:42: "He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead."

(and)

2 Timothy 4:1: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom"

(and)

Matthew 25:31–32: ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats"

**********************************************

Now please explain or support how your comments, in the previous post, did not involve any judgement - for which Jesus deems as a "no-no" from all of his followers?

Do you recognize that there is a difference between judging a person and talking about an action?

Yes. Do you recognize that this book was said to be 'inspired' by God/Jesus, and the book is a running list of what God/Jesus likes and dislikes? Further, that both you and Jesus are hypocrites?

[bjs1]

Please explain and support your implicit claim that Jesus judges people.

Sure, no problem:

John 5:22-24: The Father judges no one but has given all judgement to the Son, 23 so that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. Anyone who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. 24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life.

(and)

Acts 10:42: "He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead."

(and)

2 Timothy 4:1: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom"

(and)

Matthew 25:31–32: ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats"

**********************************************

Now please explain or support how your comments, in the previous post, did not involve any judgement - for which Jesus deems as a "no-no" from all of his followers?

We generally distinguish between judging a person and the role of a judge.

When a federal judge passes a sentence or enforces a law, we don’t accuse him of judging a person in a negative way. Rather, we understand that his action is not only acceptable, but more than that it is his responsibility to pass judgment. For a judge to refuse to pass judgment would be a failing on his part.

Since we recognize that humans can appropriately take the role of a judge, how much more should the God of the Universe be expected to take the role of judge? The Creator of the Universe has the final authority over what is right in the universe. An omniscient Being has full knowledge of both people’s actions and their motivations. Only the Almighty has the power to perfectly execute justice with mercy. For Jesus to not judge would be a moral failing.

To act in the role of judge is different from judging another person. You wrote, “context. You know, the term Christians accuse skeptics of taking things out of...” Well, this post takes the concept of judging out of context.

Do you recognize that there is a difference between judging a person and talking about an action?

Yes. Do you recognize that this book was said to be 'inspired' by God/Jesus, and the book is a running list of what God/Jesus likes and dislikes? Further, that both you and Jesus are hypocrites?

Okay, I will bite. Why did you accuse me of hypocrisy?

[Clownboat]

A book can’t judge a person.

I would like to test this claim.
According to the collection of books we call the Bible, what happens to an atheist when they die?

Is there any answer to this question which would mean that a book is able to form an opinion or evaluation of someone?

Yes. Many Christians believe the words in the Bible come directly from God through the Holy Spirit. They dedicate their lives to this book and allow it to inform their thinking.

You already know this though, which is why you avoided answer the question as to where an atheist goes when they die, according to the book we call the Bible which commands the beliefs of Christians that is.
The book does have the power to control some humans to judge those around them. Absent the book, there would be no judgement.

I recognize that people sometimes change the definition of “judge” to get the results they want. If we don’t do that, if we stick with the actual meaning of the words, how exactly could a book judge someone?

As explained, by commanding the actions of those who worship the said book. (Books if we include other holy books).

Worship
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worship

judge
noun
: one who makes judgments: such as
a
: a public official authorized to decide questions brought before a court
also : an officer in a government agency with the authority to hold hearings about and recommend resolutions for disputes concerning the agency's actions
b
: one appointed to decide in a contest or competition : umpire
c
: one who gives an authoritative opinion
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judge

Christians worship a book that provides them with authoritative opinions.

[POI]

We generally distinguish between judging a person and the role of a judge.

When Jesus says "judge not", in Matthew 7:1, he means we humans must stop acting as self-righteous judges who condemn others, not that we should stop telling right from wrong. For example, in question 2) of the OP, Zzyzx is essentially asking why Christian's generate personal <opinion(s)/judgement(s)/assessment(s)/condemnation(s)> of others? Especially when Jesus says not to do it? Case/point, you did it in post 12, when calling my response 'silly games'. Mind you, I'm not offended in the slightest. I'm instead merely bringing forth an objective observation, in that Jesus tells you not to do an action, and yet, here you are, doing the action anyways. Is this because...

1) You simply cannot help yourself, because you are a perpetual sinner against Jesus's created law(s)? Or...

2) Do you instead pick and choose which of Jesus's created laws you wish to deliberately violate?

When a federal judge passes a sentence or enforces a law, we don’t accuse him of judging a person in a negative way. Rather, we understand that his action is not only acceptable, but more than that it is his responsibility to pass judgment.

Thanks for illustrating Zzyxz's point. Make this exact statement, regarding the term 'acceptable', to the Christian folks who actually cared and protested against the court's decision regarding Roe v. Wade <prior> to 2022.

For a judge to refuse to pass judgment would be a failing on his part.

You are now barking upon a false analogy. A) Jesus appointed himself as judge. Heck, B) he also wrote the laws in which Jesus chooses to enforce. The supreme court judge does neither A) or B), in creating the laws he likes/dislikes, as well as not appointing himself as the purveyor of such self-created laws.

Since we recognize that humans can appropriately take the role of a judge

Such roles are not self-appointed.

how much more should the God of the Universe be expected to take the role of judge? The Creator of the Universe has the final authority over what is right in the universe.

Again, Jesus made the rules in which he also enforces. The rules are based upon his likes and dislikes. If you do something in which Jesus does not like, you are judged. Humans sometimes no longer align with Jesus's rules. Case/point, same sex relations are no longer deemed a legal abomination in many parts.

An omniscient Being has full knowledge of both people’s actions and their motivations.

You might be on to something if this were actually true. And yet, an invisible being, who self-appoints themself as "all-knowing", while believing our planet is a flat and round disk, is sadly mistaken. But I digress here... Again, Jesus deems himself the arbiter of THE law, based upon his own likes/dislikes. If anyone disagrees, too bad! Alternately, as again sighting the Roe v. Wade case, "judgment" can actually be overturned; as HAS been overturned.

Only the Almighty has the power to perfectly execute justice with mercy. For Jesus to not judge would be a moral failing.

Again, you might be on to something, for further discussion, if Jesus demonstrated to actually be this... But all one has to do is read the dang book, in which he is said to inspire, to know that Jesus is delusional if he proclaims himself to be as such. But getting back on track, let's again explore what Zzyxz asked in the OP:

WHY does (Jesus) judge people while saying 'judge not'?

Why did you accuse me of hypocrisy?

Rinse/repeat, since you completely skipped the request:

Now please explain or support how your comments, in the previous post - (post 12), did not involve any judgement - for which Jesus deems as a "no-no" from all of his followers?

[bjs1]

[Replying to POI in post #18]


I apologize if I gave offense. That was not my intent.

You are playing games, correct? Again, my goal is not to offend. This is a serious question.

You made vague statements, and then wrote about your “secret decoder pen” when asked for clarity.

You made a point about Jesus as the God who judges, but then when I respond you switched to talking about Christian in general.

You wrote about Jesus within the context of the Bible, but then rejected the Bible when that suited your argument.

It feels like you are playing games. Is that not your goal?

Or was it just the adjective “silly” that caused offense?

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #18]
I apologize if I gave offense. That was not my intent.

Thanks, but you continue to (avoid or miss) my point here. I'm not offended in the slightest BTW. My point here is, did you pass "judgement" because:

a) You are a perpetual sinner and you cannot help yourself, even though you know Jesus tells you not to do so?
b) You deliberately pick and choose which of Jesus's laws to abide by, (vs) to ignore?

You are playing games, correct? Again, my goal is not to offend. This is a serious question.

I am playing no games here bjs1. But it looks like you are, starting when you tried to harp on Zzyzx's OP based upon a word technicality, (when we all know darn well you understand context). Further, I raised many points in my prior response, and you skipped them. Why?

You made vague statements, and then wrote about your “secret decoder pen” when asked for clarity.

What statement(s) did/do you view as 'vague'? And are they still 'vague' now or have they been clarified for you now?

You made a point about Jesus as the God who judges, but then when I respond you switched to talking about Christian in general.

Speaking of 'vague'.... How about actually responding to what I actually wrote, (in the prior response), instead of what you vaguely stated here?

You wrote about Jesus within the context of the Bible, but then rejected the Bible when that suited your argument.

Until you respond to what I actually wrote, which was in response to what you wrote, this response means nothing.

It feels like you are playing games. Is that not your goal?

If this is how you feel, please demonstrate it and respond to what I actually wrote, which is in response to what you had written.