How can we determine which parts of Scripture are true?

[Zelduck]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

[Korah]

[Replying to post 161 by JoeyKnothead]
We appreciate your humor, Joey,
But don't your think your Post #161 shows a lot of ill will?
What OP are you talking about, and why do you demand I start a new thread to your specifications?

My Thesis of seven written gospel eyewitnesses (by the list I provided in my #155) does include several that stray into the Resurrection chapters. Only one is simple:
#97 has Simon (not Peter) writing about his Walk to Emmaus and more Resurrection appearances: Luke 24:13-53.
I list two for the Gospel of John. The gospels were built around the Passion Narrative which I say in #59 was originally written by John Mark, the disciple known to the high priest. This includes some disjointed verses in John 20 that are partly what he himself saw and partly what Mary Magdalene saw.
Most of the verses in-between I identify in my Post #101 by word styling as by the Apostle John (or his scribe). John was of course an eyewitness, but in his role as editor here some verses were not based on his own eyes on. I show him as writing much of John 21 also, where he was a direct eyewitness.

So if you are so determined to focus on the Resurrection (as much of the rest you dismiss as too mundane), let's start with the above-mentioned three posts on this thread.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 162:

We appreciate your humor, Joey

I 'preciate your knowing I carry on. I can be insulting when I do, but hope y'all know it's about the argument, and not my fellow human being.

But don't your think your Post #161 shows a lot of ill will?

,
I respect my comments may be "ill will-ish", being all me and all. I swear I've got me a point, even if it upsets folks I do.

What OP are you talking about, and why do you demand I start a new thread to your specifications?

I'm tryin' to get at the idea that you declare there's some eyewitnesses to stuff, and just what it is, they eywitnessed. So, in relation to the OP, well there we go.

My Thesis of seven written gospel eyewitnesses (by the list I provided in my #155) does include several that stray into the Resurrection chapters. Only one is simple:

I can dig it. But am flummoxed as to why you wouldn't present this particular argument all its own.

97 has Simon (not Peter) writing about his Walk to Emmaus and more Resurrection appearances: Luke 24:13-53.

I was in the Army. I ain't ever fretted me the idea that some dude walked him somewhere.

I list two for the Gospel of John. The gospels were built around the Passion Narrative which I say in #59 was originally written by John Mark, the disciple known to the high priest. This includes some disjointed verses in John 20 that are partly what he himself saw and partly what Mary Magdalene saw.
Most of the verses in-between I identify in my Post #101 by word styling as by the Apostle John (or his scribe). John was of course an eyewitness, but in his role as editor here some verses were not based on his own eyes on. I show him as writing much of John 21 also, where he was a direct eyewitness.

Frankly, I tire of your argument... "These things here, they indicate that'n there was him an "eyewitness", but don't ask me to confirm the veracity of their reports.

"They was eyewtnesses!"

"To what?"

"Naw, it's just they was."


I declare faulty claims to knowledge that if one asks if you have it, all you can do is declare there were eyewitnesses to events you are utterly incapable of showning to have occurred.


New term?

The "slippery sloppy"

Where declarations of the mundane and unchallenged become claims of the unproven and unprovable.

Example:

"And here it is, these folks witnessed God, who (insert supernatural claim in support of referenced God)."

"But I'm just here to tell what it is they witnessed, not so much they did."

So if you are so determined to focus on the Resurrection (as much of the rest you dismiss as too mundane), let's start with the above-mentioned three posts on this thread.

Meh.

"That'n there, well he really did tell it, what it did he tell!"

"Cool, show he speaks truth."

"Naw, I'm all about him saying what it is, it is he said!"

"And not so much about showing he spoke truth when he did."

[Korah]

[Replying to post 163 by JoeyKnothead]
You aren't interested in the mundane.
You aren't interested in the miraculous.
Does that leave anything you might be interested to discuss?
Yet you asked me to start a new OP just for you?

[followthelamb]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

I will answer you and i will give you wisdom concerning the matter

when you look up to the heavens and behold the clouds and the moon the sun and the stars who created it?
Who made man and the beast of the fields and the food that you consume all the days of your vanity?

Why is there so many religions and many different beliefs and vanities concerning God, creation and man, the scientists believes the world was created by an accident called the big bang, the other believes nature is god the other believes in the god of the muslims and an other is waiting on the messiah to come(though he came and left long ago).

Which god is true, which is the true creation?

Behold by the word of god was the heavens created and man formed. So by his words their is hope but who can understand?

The bible is book written of by faith, If you have no faith you can not begin to understand the sayings in it. And what man has faith of his self for all things was given from the heavens.

Besides all these it is written seeing they shall see and not percieve and hearing they shall hear and not understand.

Therefore if you do not believe nor understand it was not for you to understand but i tell you do not sleep but believe for every word of god written in the scriptures of the god of daniel and jesus him self(for he is god) i tell you that god all his words are true and their is no other god besides him.

ALL OTHER GODS BESIDES THE GOD OF DANIEL,JACOB AND JESUS HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD DO NOT EXIST

[followthelamb]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

I will answer you and i will give you wisdom concerning the matter

when you look up to the heavens and behold the clouds and the moon the sun and the stars who created it?
Who made man and the beast of the fields and the food that you consume all the days of your vanity?

Why is there so many religions and many different beliefs and vanities concerning God, creation and man, the scientists believes the world was created by an accident called the big bang, the other believes nature is god the other believes in the god of the muslims and an other is waiting on the messiah to come(though he came and left long ago).

Which god is true, which is the true creation?

Behold by the word of god was the heavens created and man formed. So by his words their is hope but who can understand?

The bible is book written of by faith, If you have no faith you can not begin to understand the sayings in it. And what man has faith of his self for all things was given from the heavens.

Besides all these it is written seeing they shall see and not percieve and hearing they shall hear and not understand.

Therefore if you do not believe nor understand it was not for you to understand but i tell you do not sleep but believe for every word of god written in the scriptures of the god of daniel and jesus him self(for he is god) i tell you that god all his words are true and their is no other god besides him.

ALL OTHER GODS BESIDES THE GOD OF DANIEL,JACOB AND JESUS HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD DO NOT EXIST

[followthelamb]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

I will answer you and i will give you wisdom concerning the matter

when you look up to the heavens and behold the clouds and the moon the sun and the stars who created it?
Who made man and the beast of the fields and the food that you consume all the days of your vanity?

Why is there so many religions and many different beliefs and vanities concerning God, creation and man, the scientists believes the world was created by an accident called the big bang, the other believes nature is god the other believes in the god of the muslims and an other is waiting on the messiah to come(though he came and left long ago).

Which god is true, which is the true creation?

Behold by the word of god was the heavens created and man formed. So by his words their is hope but who can understand?

The bible is book written of by faith, If you have no faith you can not begin to understand the sayings in it. And what man has faith of his self for all things was given from the heavens.

Besides all these it is written seeing they shall see and not percieve and hearing they shall hear and not understand.

Therefore if you do not believe nor understand it was not for you to understand but i tell you do not sleep but believe for every word of god written in the scriptures of the god of daniel and jesus him self(for he is god) i tell you that god all his words are true and their is no other god besides him.

ALL OTHER GODS BESIDES THE GOD OF DANIEL,JACOB AND JESUS HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD DO NOT EXIST

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 167 by followthelamb]

I will answer you and i will give you wisdom concerning the matter

when you look up to the heavens and behold the clouds and the moon the sun and the stars who created it?
Who made man and the beast of the fields and the food that you consume all the days of your vanity?

Maybe it was ALL created by the same Who that created God? Because if the sun and the moon and the stars and man and the beasts of the field MUST have had a creator, then God MUST have had a creator. But then who created the creator creator? So we encounter a logical paradox here, don't we? If it's possible for God to exist without the necessity of a creator, then it's perfectly possible that the sun and the moon and the stars and man and the beasts of the field exist without the necessity of a creator. Declaring something to be true and then immediately breaking the rule is not an act of logic.

When I look up into the sky and see the clouds and the moon and the sun and the stars, I see quantum mechanics at work. The clouds are water vapor, a result of evaporation caused by the sun. No intelligence is involved in their creation. They occur naturally because bits of really really small stuff called quanta which is the basic stuff of matter, are charged positively and negatively. And quanta with opposite charges are attracted to each other, while quanta with like charges are repelled by each other. And THAT is why there are clouds in the sky. It's also the reason the sun shines, as do the stars. This attraction/repulsion phenomenon is the driving force behind EVERYTHING THAT OCCURS, in fact. Because matter is energy, and matter/energy interacts with itself. Unfortunately the world of the quanta is not easy to observe, and that is a very strong understatement. So when one looks up into the sky at the clouds and the sun and the moon and the stars, the workings of quantum mechanics is not readily apparent. It's really far easier to declare that "God did it," and leave it at that. Ignorance comes easy. knowledge takes work.

[followthelamb]

[Replying to post 167 by followthelamb]

I will answer you and i will give you wisdom concerning the matter

when you look up to the heavens and behold the clouds and the moon the sun and the stars who created it?
Who made man and the beast of the fields and the food that you consume all the days of your vanity?

Maybe it was ALL created by the same Who that created God? Because if the sun and the moon and the stars and man and the beasts of the field MUST have had a creator, then God MUST have had a creator. But then who created the creator creator? So we encounter a logical paradox here, don't we? If it's possible for God to exist without the necessity of a creator, then it's perfectly possible that the sun and the moon and the stars and man and the beasts of the field exist without the necessity of a creator. Declaring something to be true and then immediately breaking the rule is not an act of logic.

When I look up into the sky and see the clouds and the moon and the sun and the stars, I see quantum mechanics at work. The clouds are water vapor, a result of evaporation caused by the sun. No intelligence is involved in their creation. They occur naturally because bits of really really small stuff called quanta which is the basic stuff of matter, are charged positively and negatively. And quanta with opposite charges are attracted to each other, while quanta with like charges are repelled by each other. And THAT is why there are clouds in the sky. It's also the reason the sun shines, as do the stars. This attraction/repulsion phenomenon is the driving force behind EVERYTHING THAT OCCURS, in fact. Because matter is energy, and matter/energy interacts with itself. Unfortunately the world of the quanta is not easy to observe, and that is a very strong understatement. So when one looks up into the sky at the clouds and the sun and the moon and the stars, the workings of quantum mechanics is not readily apparent. It's really far easier to declare that "God did it," and leave it at that. Ignorance comes easy. knowledge takes work.

You say if all was created by god then god must had a creator? and if god had a creator than that creator had a creator and if that creator had a creator than were does it end?

If god did not make any of this and it was caused by accident, How come everything is so perfectly aligned? we know a man did not place the sun were it is nor the moon, we know a man did not even place stars in fact scientist can not even see past certain limits of the heavens, they can only see in this galaxy last i heard. but how many other glalaxies are there?

Behold you will not believe if your heart is harden

it is written revelation 22:13

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Isaiah 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

God is the beginning and the end, He is the starting point, he is the first and the last,

He is the foundation he is the starting point there was nothing before him, no angel, no man no beast no devil, there was nothing before him

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

You say if all was created by god then god must had a creator? and if god had a creator than that creator had a creator and if that creator had a creator than were does it end?

Actually this is your own belief system in action. You have concluded that the observable universe must have been created by a Being who did not require a creation. You have simply made up an answer which is NOT obvious, and declared it to be true. This is known as MAKE BELIEVE, and it serves no purpose in the quest for knowledge. The universe exists. We are an intrinsic part of the universe, and to deny our own existence would be illogical. Therefore, what does the universe itself tell us about it's own, and our own, existence? Discovering that requires experimentation and careful observation. Along with a willingness to accept what we find at face value without preconceptions or prejudice. The truth is under no obligation to conform to our emotional needs and desires. Through long years of experimentation and observation we have learned two very important facts about the nature of the universe. The first is Einstein's famous theorem E=MC^2. Matter IS energy. Matter, this stuff that you and I and the universe we are a part of exist in a somewhat congealed, or semi-fixed, state. Matter is the result of the quanta that I mentioned earlier clumping together to form atoms, which in turn form the elements that the stars and the planets and you and I are made of. Quanta are incredibly tiny bits of pure vibrating energy. The frequency of their vibration determines whether they are positively or negatively charged. At it's core, matter IS energy you see. The second important observation is derived from what is known as the law of conservation of energy. You may well have heard of this yourself. It states that ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED. The law of conservation of energy was derived over centuries of experimentation and observation. Never once has it failed to be proven true. Energy can be changed in form, but no new energy is ever gained or lost in the process. If energy cannot be created or destroyed, IT IS ETERNAL by definition. And if it can't be created, THERE CAN BE NO CREATOR. This is what experimentation and observation has shown us, without prejudice.

If god did not make any of this and it was caused by accident, How come everything is so perfectly aligned? we know a man did not place the sun were it is nor the moon, we know a man did not even place stars in fact scientist can not even see past certain limits of the heavens, they can only see in this galaxy last i heard. but how many other glalaxies are there?

Everything that occurs does so for a very precise set of reasons. Cause proceeds effect in an unbroken chain. The sun shining on a body of water cause the water molecules to percolate up into the air molecules. We refer to this as humidity. At high altitude where it is cooler, the water condenses into a vapor we call clouds. The sun is the cause, the clouds are the effect. There is NO intelligence behind this however. It is a natural occurrence driven by the fact that matter/energy interacts with itself due to the ongoing attraction/repulsion positive/negative process called quantum mechanics. The moon and the sun and the stars are all a result of this very same process. Things are as they are now for very precise sets of reasons. Things were not always they way they are now, nor will they always remain this way in the future. Change is the very nature of quantum mechanics. But no intelligence is responsible. Mankind certainly is not responsible for any of this. We are simply along for the ride.

The estimated number of galaxies in the observable universe currently stands at approximately a couple of hundred billion, give or take. Light from galaxies further away than that, if they exist, has not had time to reach us yet.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 170 by Tired of the Nonsense]
The last six posts have nothing to do with the OP or to any of the preceding posts. In addition Posts #166 and #167 are duplicates of #165 that the Newbie poster did not know he could have deleted himself if he had acted in time.

Perhaps they should be moved to a new thread titled something like "God the Creator?"