A QUESTION FOR ANYONE WHO HOLDS TO FREE WILL UNTO SALVATION

[Eddie Ramos]

How is it possible for someone to think they are truly saved (based on their free will), but truly not be saved at all?

Proverbs 30:12 (KJV 1900)
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes,
And yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Matthew 7:22–23 (KJV 1900)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Acts 8:13 (KJV 1900)
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:21–23 (KJV 1900)
Thou (Simon) hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

[Eddie Ramos]

"Believing" denotes some kind of ACTION.

The action you speak of is the keeping of a commandment, yet the scriptures tell us that no man is justified by the works of the law.

Where is believing in Jesus ever described as a commandment?

1 John 3:23 (KJV 1900)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

This is just one passage, but the whole Bible equates beliving with obedience to God's commandment to do so. In this next passage, God teaches us the same thing but from a slightly different angle.

1 Peter 2:7 (KJV 1900)
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The question is why would God be using the word "disobedient" as a contrast for the word "believe"? The answer is because to believe in Jesus is a commandment of God, just like to repent, to be baptized, to call upon the name of the Lord, etc. These are all works of righteousness which could never initiate salvation, but these commandments are obeyed (in a way which pleases God) only after God has saved someone. Now, (for the saved individual) these are no longer works which result in our righteousness but are demonstrations of love through the obedience of them.

John 14:15 (KJV 1900)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And of course, the only reason we love him (meaning obey his commandments) is because he loved us first (meaning, he first saved us).

1 John 4:19 (KJV 1900)
We love him, because he first loved us.

[myth-one.com]

"Believing" denotes some kind of ACTION.

The action you speak of is the keeping of a commandment, yet the scriptures tell us that no man is justified by the works of the law.

Where is believing in Jesus ever described as a commandment?

1 John 3:23 (KJV 1900)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

This is just one passage, but the whole Bible equates beliving with obedience to God's commandment to do so. In this next passage, God teaches us the same thing but from a slightly different angle.

1 Peter 2:7 (KJV 1900)
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The question is why would God be using the word "disobedient" as a contrast for the word "believe"? The answer is because to believe in Jesus is a commandment of God, just like to repent, to be baptized, to call upon the name of the Lord, etc. These are all works of righteousness which could never initiate salvation, but these commandments are obeyed (in a way which pleases God) only after God has saved someone. Now, (for the saved individual) these are no longer works which result in our righteousness but are demonstrations of love through the obedience of them.

John 14:15 (KJV 1900)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And of course, the only reason we love him (meaning obey his commandments) is because he loved us first (meaning, he first saved us).

1 John 4:19 (KJV 1900)
We love him, because he first loved us.

It's a choice:

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

And no one has yet been saved. Believers are presently heirs unto everlasting life.

We will gain everlasting life when born again of the Spirit as a spirit at or after the Second Coming. That is when we are saved from the wages of sin. The wages of sin is death, but we will be immortal spirits which will never die.

[Eddie Ramos]

"Believing" denotes some kind of ACTION.

The action you speak of is the keeping of a commandment, yet the scriptures tell us that no man is justified by the works of the law.

Where is believing in Jesus ever described as a commandment?

1 John 3:23 (KJV 1900)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

This is just one passage, but the whole Bible equates beliving with obedience to God's commandment to do so. In this next passage, God teaches us the same thing but from a slightly different angle.

1 Peter 2:7 (KJV 1900)
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The question is why would God be using the word "disobedient" as a contrast for the word "believe"? The answer is because to believe in Jesus is a commandment of God, just like to repent, to be baptized, to call upon the name of the Lord, etc. These are all works of righteousness which could never initiate salvation, but these commandments are obeyed (in a way which pleases God) only after God has saved someone. Now, (for the saved individual) these are no longer works which result in our righteousness but are demonstrations of love through the obedience of them.

John 14:15 (KJV 1900)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And of course, the only reason we love him (meaning obey his commandments) is because he loved us first (meaning, he first saved us).

1 John 4:19 (KJV 1900)
We love him, because he first loved us.

It's a choice:

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

And no one has yet been saved. Believers are presently heirs unto everlasting life.

We will gain everlasting life when born again of the Spirit as a spirit at or after the Second Coming. That is when we are saved from the wages of sin. The wages of sin is death, but we will be immortal spirits which will never die.

Salvation was never a choice. You are once again not reading the context of what you are posting. Please read the context of Deuteronomy 30 to see that the choice they were given was for an earthly blessing not for eternal life.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 (KJV)
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

[myth-one.com]

Salvation was never a choice.

Under the Old Testament one could choose to obey or disobey the commandments of God. Obeying equated to everlasting life and disobeying led to everlasting death.

Under the New Testament believing in Jesus results in everlasting life, while rejecting Jesus results in everlasting death.

Both require making a choice between everlasting life or everlasting death.

[onewithhim]

Salvation was never a choice.

Under the Old Testament one could choose to obey or disobey the commandments of God. Obeying equated to everlasting life and disobeying led to everlasting death.

Under the New Testament believing in Jesus results in everlasting life, while rejecting Jesus results in everlasting death.

Both require making a choice between everlasting life or everlasting death.

Yes, absolutely. If people were already chosen to live or die, Jesus wouldn't have come to Earth and given us all the opportunity to accept or reject him.

[Mae von H]

I never heard of anyone thinking they’re saved because of their free will. All I meet think they’re saved because of Jesus, not their free will.

[onewithhim]

I never heard of anyone thinking they’re saved because of their free will. All I meet think they’re saved because of Jesus, not their free will.

We have to exercise our free will and choose to accept Jesus. We have the choice.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement. Believing on anything is insufficient. We have to believe the truth as well. Salvation requires believing the truth too.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement. Believing on anything is insufficient. We have to believe the truth as well. Salvation requires believing the truth too.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works. After all, "the demons believe and tremble." It is clear that we must do more than merely believe. "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:20, 26)

Jesus said: "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matthew 5:16)

Both are necessary, belief (as even the demons have) and works, as Jesus indicated.

Should we not take Jesus at his word? "Most truly I say to you, he that exercises faith in me, that one will do the works that I do..." (John 14:12)

The Apostle Paul said: ...I went bringing the message that they should repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance." (Acts 26:20)

And: [God] will render to each one according to his works: everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and immortality by endurance in work that is good." (Romans 2:6,7)

"Glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good..." (Romans 2:10)

"...In the way that befits women professing to reverence God, namely, through good works." (ITimothy 2:10)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #27]

Believing is a necessary but insufficient requirement.

That is correct. And believing must be followed by good works.

But Jesus Christ stated:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So believers which have no works are not included in "whosoever believeth"?

Wow, you would think that God's only begotten Son could get it correct!