Michael

[placebofactor]

Is Jesus Christ Michael the archangel?

[1213]

...
But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jude. 1:9"

My response:

Why was it not necessary for Michael to rebuke the Devil? Did not he delegate to Jehovah by whom he assigned to Create or organize the world? Is it not also appropriate that he likewise should delegate this responsibility to him also?

I think it very important that one should very careful not to assume too much from this scripture referred to in Jude 1:9 regarding this conversation between Michael and the devil since Jude 1:9 is referring to another scripture which is obviously lost or removed from our current bible. If you disagree with this, then please clearly show he full scripture and verse Jude is quoting from…..

So, you think Jude. 1:9 is not correct?

I think Jude. 1:9 shows Michael is not the God himself, because if he would be, there would be no reason for him to say "Let the Lord rebuke you!".

[Revelations won]

Dear 1213,

I never said Jude 1:9 was incorrect.

I merely said that Jude was quoting from a scripture which was obviously available to the saints in their day, but which was either lost or destroyed several hundred years later when the many available scriptures were argued and decided by intense opposition by both sides as to which would be added to the compilation we now know as the Bible. I personally think it was tragic and sad that many records were burned, denying future generations the right to see, search and diligently examine the full content and nature of the documents. One should seriously question their motives in hiding those records. Why were they so willing to destroy evidence by burning? How many other things in that scripture mentioned in Jude 1:9 would give greater clarity to the whole matter body?

So even you are willing to take evidence out of context and formulate a private interpretation of what it really means.

The great Elohim, the most high God clearly did not create the earth and the heavenly solar system surrounding it, but delegated such to his only begotten Son. This in absolutely no way states that he could not rebuke Lucifer. It does however show that what he delegated to his Son was indicative and recognized the full sovereignty and trust in his Son that he would effectively handle the situation. It was Lucifer that tried to bypass the chain of command to try to get God the Father to interfere with that which he delegated.

God the Father for example new fully what suffering his Son would endure in providing the Atonement. Did he for example have the full power to provide the atonement? Absolutely yes. If he had chosen to do so it would have robbed the Son of this all important and necessary divine calling to fully act in the office to which he had been delegated to perform by divine decree. If he had so chosen, then Christ would never have fulfilled this assigned mission to be our redeemer.

[1213]

...This in absolutely no way states that he could not rebuke Lucifer. ...

I agree that Jesus could have done that. I think the scripture means, Michael didn't do so, but instead said that "Let the Lord rebuke you!", and the Lord can mean in this Jesus.

[onewithhim]

...This in absolutely no way states that he could not rebuke Lucifer. ...

I agree that Jesus could have done that. I think the scripture means, Michael didn't do so, but instead said that "Let the Lord rebuke you!", and the Lord can mean in this Jesus.

The "Lord" is Jehovah in this instance, and many others. Sometimes the Lord means Jesus, but not in all circumstances. It is confusing. Shame on whoever refused to include Jehovah's name in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

[Capbook]

...This in absolutely no way states that he could not rebuke Lucifer. ...

I agree that Jesus could have done that. I think the scripture means, Michael didn't do so, but instead said that "Let the Lord rebuke you!", and the Lord can mean in this Jesus.

The "Lord" is Jehovah in this instance, and many others. Sometimes the Lord means Jesus, but not in all circumstances. It is confusing. Shame on whoever refused to include Jehovah's name in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Yes, it is the Tetragrammaton mentioned in the text but not the Latinized.

Jud 1:9 But Miḵa’ěl the chief messenger, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Mosheh, presumed not to bring against him a blasphemous accusation, but said, “יהוה rebuke you!” Zec 3:2

[placebofactor]

...
But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jude. 1:9"

My response:

Why was it not necessary for Michael to rebuke the Devil? Did not he delegate to Jehovah by whom he assigned to Create or organize the world? Is it not also appropriate that he likewise should delegate this responsibility to him also?

I think it very important that one should very careful not to assume too much from this scripture referred to in Jude 1:9 regarding this conversation between Michael and the devil since Jude 1:9 is referring to another scripture which is obviously lost or removed from our current bible. If you disagree with this, then please clearly show he full scripture and verse Jude is quoting from…..

So, you think Jude. 1:9 is not correct?

I think Jude. 1:9 shows Michael is not the God himself, because if he would be, there would be no reason for him to say "Let the Lord rebuke you!".

There is no Jude 1:9, it's Jude 9. Also, the word Lord is "Kurios" which the Witnesses claim is not Jehovah but is Christ, not Jehovah. You can't have it both ways. Also, an angel, or archangel, does not delegate anything to the Lord. It's the Lord who delegates to angels, including Michael.

[1213]

...
But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jude. 1:9"

My response:

Why was it not necessary for Michael to rebuke the Devil? Did not he delegate to Jehovah by whom he assigned to Create or organize the world? Is it not also appropriate that he likewise should delegate this responsibility to him also?

I think it very important that one should very careful not to assume too much from this scripture referred to in Jude 1:9 regarding this conversation between Michael and the devil since Jude 1:9 is referring to another scripture which is obviously lost or removed from our current bible. If you disagree with this, then please clearly show he full scripture and verse Jude is quoting from…..

So, you think Jude. 1:9 is not correct?

I think Jude. 1:9 shows Michael is not the God himself, because if he would be, there would be no reason for him to say "Let the Lord rebuke you!".

There is no Jude 1:9...

Here it is:
https://bibleportal.com/verse-topic?v=J ... ersion=WEB

[onewithhim]

...
But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, "Let the Lord rebuke you!"
Jude. 1:9"

My response:

Why was it not necessary for Michael to rebuke the Devil? Did not he delegate to Jehovah by whom he assigned to Create or organize the world? Is it not also appropriate that he likewise should delegate this responsibility to him also?

I think it very important that one should very careful not to assume too much from this scripture referred to in Jude 1:9 regarding this conversation between Michael and the devil since Jude 1:9 is referring to another scripture which is obviously lost or removed from our current bible. If you disagree with this, then please clearly show he full scripture and verse Jude is quoting from…..

So, you think Jude. 1:9 is not correct?

I think Jude. 1:9 shows Michael is not the God himself, because if he would be, there would be no reason for him to say "Let the Lord rebuke you!".

There is no Jude 1:9...

Here it is:
https://bibleportal.com/verse-topic?v=J ... ersion=WEB

Technically there is no chapter one in Jude because there are no succeeding chapters.

[Revelations won]

Dear 1213,


"Post #5
Post by 1213 » Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:44 pm

Revelations won wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 7:39 am
...There is one thing however that you have not shown where the scriptures state that Michael is Christ. Can you provide the scriptures that so clearly state this claim?
No, I don't think Bible claims Michael is the Christ. Bible tells Jesus is a man, not an angel.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5".


Thank you for your clear and direct answer to my question. You are right on target.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #29]

Michael; speaking of the end times:

"And at that time shall Michael standup, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:1,2, KJV)

Who else has the privilege to "stand up" for the people? Is there another "great prince" besides Jesus Christ? The verses speak of the Great Tribulation. Who is the foremost individual that is involved with the workings-out of this time of the end, and is uniquely referred to in the 24th chapter of Matthew?? So if Daniel 12 is not referring to Jesus, then there is another great prince who would be fulfilling all of what Jesus spoke of in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I don't think there is another great prince the likes of Jesus Christ. He alone deserves all the accolades associated with the end of times.