Could “resurrection” be faked?

[Zzyzx]

.
Could “resurrection” be faked?

1. A supposed death could be an illusion (as is done for stage, movies and television regularly), or it could be in error, or it could be a fabrication.

2. OR, A dead body could be put into a tomb and later secretly removed (for publicity purposes).

3. OR, Supposed witnesses to the “empty tomb” could be unidentified so their reliability and honesty could not be investigated, or they could be mistaken or untruthful, OR their “testimony” could be fictional.

4. OR, An illusionist after faking death and entombment could later appear to witnesses.

5. OR, churchmen writing decades or centuries after the supposed event could have invented the tale in order to promote their interests and their religion.

6. OR, a combination of the above.

7. Harry Houdini could probably have arranged the trick very convincingly.

8. A clever author of fiction could write an emotional story including all the supposed conditions and characters.

9. Clever clerics have convinced people to believe their tales enough to follow instructions to kill innocent people, including children, to impress supposed gods “visible” only to clerics.


Two thousand years after the trick, no evidence is available to verify that the event actually happened as reported, and no witnesses left accounts of what occurred (existing reports are hearsay recorded decades or centuries later).

If told that a hundred years ago a dead body had come back to life, there was no evidence, the supposed witnesses could not be identified, and those who recorded the supposed incident could not be verified, would you believe it had been real?

If the “death” involved a godman for whom “death” was temporary at most, was the “death” and “resurrection” symbolic rather than literal?

Question for debate: Could “resurrection” be faked?

[Goat]

The soldiers reported Jesus was dead. If you want to make up your own Bible story then go for it.

I do not deny that the soldiers reported Jesus was dead. I simply relayed that even today several people a year are mistakenly reported dead by doctors. If you wish to argue that they were actually dead but resurrected by God; I cannot prove you wrong.

You would have us Believe that it was impossible for a roman soldier to be mistaken or bribed.

Nope, that's your argument, not mine. Mine is that there is simply no historical evidence in the Gospels that the soldiers thought Jesus was anything but dead.

I would have you recognize that flesh is imperfect. I would have you recognize that all sins of the flesh are forgiven through Jesus – even unrepentant and abominable sins – even the unrepentant and most abominable sins of his own executioners. Yet, still you deny His Holy Spirit.

No way I deny the Holy Spirit, or anything in that last paragraph, though there is one caveat: As Jesus said, "Unless you forgive others their sins against you, the Father will not forgive you your sins."

In the same sense that Jesus made up his own Bible story; so is a new Bible story now being made.

You might sell that kind of revisionism to some people, but I'll stick with the historical accounts of the NT.

Even as you do not recognize the Spirit of Christ in his old new Bible story, you will not recognize the Spirit of Christ in his new new Bible story.

"old new Bible story"? Where do you get these claims? Let me give you an update:

1 John 2:22 - "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son."

JESUS IS LORD!

My observation is there is no historical evidence from before the destruction of the temple that isn't from Christian sources that Jesus even EXISTED. As for 1 John 2:22, that is just a little piece of self serving rhetoric,and is basically meaningless.

It might give you a feeling of patting yourself on the back,and making you think you are superior because you think are you 'not the antichrist', but there is no foundation to it at all.

[Easyrider]

My observation is there is no historical evidence from before the destruction of the temple that isn't from Christian sources that Jesus even EXISTED.

Jerusalem Burial Cave Reveals Names, Testimonies of First Christians

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/burialcave.html

Both archaeologists found evidence clearly dating the two catacombs to the first century AD, with the later finding coins minted by Governor Varius Gratus at the turn of the millenium (up to 15/16 AD). Evidence in both catacombs indicated their use for burial until the middle part of the first century AD, several years before the New Testament was written.

Busted.

As for 1 John 2:22, that is just a little piece of self serving rhetoric,and is basically meaningless.

You'll get a brand new revelation on that the day you have to kneel before Christ and confess him as Lord.

It might give you a feeling of patting yourself on the back,and making you think you are superior because you think are you 'not the antichrist', but there is no foundation to it at all.

There's the sheep and the goats, goat. God (Christ) has spoken through his Word.

[Flail]

There are millions of 'easyriders' in Pakistan...and their mantra is "Allah is Lord"....

all this fighting over who will be annointed, oh how can people be so blind...???????????????????????

[Goat]

My observation is there is no historical evidence from before the destruction of the temple that isn't from Christian sources that Jesus even EXISTED.

Jerusalem Burial Cave Reveals Names, Testimonies of First Christians

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/burialcave.html

Both archaeologists found evidence clearly dating the two catacombs to the first century AD, with the later finding coins minted by Governor Varius Gratus at the turn of the millenium (up to 15/16 AD). Evidence in both catacombs indicated their use for burial until the middle part of the first century AD, several years before the New Testament was written.

Busted.

As for 1 John 2:22, that is just a little piece of self serving rhetoric,and is basically meaningless.

You'll get a brand new revelation on that the day you have to kneel before Christ and confess him as Lord.

It might give you a feeling of patting yourself on the back,and making you think you are superior because you think are you 'not the antichrist', but there is no foundation to it at all.

There's the sheep and the goats, goat. God (Christ) has spoken through his Word.

Ah yes. you bring up that 'Crusaders for Christ' web site quite often. However, it is very badly done, and really isn't worth the bandwidth is uses.

YOu see, you have one 'religious reporters' spin on a short essay that was written i the 1950's, and is not taken too seriously. When it comes to a lot of the symbols, it is merely marking which top goes to which casket.

You should have been clued into the fact because the claim of the use of the cross is anachronistic by several centuries

[Easyrider]

My observation is there is no historical evidence from before the destruction of the temple that isn't from Christian sources that Jesus even EXISTED.

Jerusalem Burial Cave Reveals Names, Testimonies of First Christians

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/burialcave.html

Both archaeologists found evidence clearly dating the two catacombs to the first century AD, with the later finding coins minted by Governor Varius Gratus at the turn of the millenium (up to 15/16 AD). Evidence in both catacombs indicated their use for burial until the middle part of the first century AD, several years before the New Testament was written.

Busted.

As for 1 John 2:22, that is just a little piece of self serving rhetoric,and is basically meaningless.

You'll get a brand new revelation on that the day you have to kneel before Christ and confess him as Lord.

It might give you a feeling of patting yourself on the back,and making you think you are superior because you think are you 'not the antichrist', but there is no foundation to it at all.

There's the sheep and the goats, goat. God (Christ) has spoken through his Word.

Ah yes. you bring up that 'Crusaders for Christ' web site quite often. However, it is very badly done, and really isn't worth the bandwidth is uses.

YOu see, you have one 'religious reporters' spin on a short essay that was written i the 1950's, and is not taken too seriously. When it comes to a lot of the symbols, it is merely marking which top goes to which casket.

You should have been clued into the fact because the claim of the use of the cross is anachronistic by several centuries

Sure, goat. I suppose they bribed the archaeologists and chisseled their own ossuaries too. LOL!

[Flail]

Easyrider

Calm your self righteous spinning....

as Jesus said...'observe the Lillys of the field, neither do the spin or sow."

You need to find a like minded Muslim and 'have it out'

[r~]

You would have us Believe that it was impossible for a roman soldier to be mistaken or bribed.

Nope, that's your argument, not mine. Mine is that there is simply no historical evidence in the Gospels that the soldiers thought Jesus was anything but dead.

So you admit that Jesus may not have been dead.

No way I deny the Holy Spirit, or anything in that last paragraph, though there is one caveat: As Jesus said, "Unless you forgive others their sins against you, the Father will not forgive you your sins."

Yet, unless you have recently been reborn In the Spirit, you still do not forgive the sin of unrepentant homosexuality: you still deny the equality (love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others and all that) of homosexual legal union under the name 'marriage'.

In the same sense that Jesus made up his own Bible story; so is a new Bible story now being made.

You might sell that kind of revisionism to some people, but I'll stick with the historical accounts of the NT... "old new Bible story"? Where do you get these claims?

Is it that you deny the second coming, or that it has not crossed your mind that a new book will be/is being written.

When you deny equality to homosexuals, you deny the Holy Spirit of Christ. When you deny Jesus' commands to not cast your stony words against sinners (homosexuals), you deny that Jesus has the authority of the Christ.

It is not too late to repent. Bow to God and acknowledge that only He has the authority to forgive or punish the sin of homosexuality as He wishes.

ItS
Peace
r~

[Easyrider]

You would have us Believe that it was impossible for a roman soldier to be mistaken or bribed.

Nope, that's your argument, not mine. Mine is that there is simply no historical evidence in the Gospels that the soldiers thought Jesus was anything but dead.

So you admit that Jesus may not have been dead.

Nope, that's your reach. Jesus died and was resurrected as the historical accounts state.

No way I deny the Holy Spirit, or anything in that last paragraph, though there is one caveat: As Jesus said, "Unless you forgive others their sins against you, the Father will not forgive you your sins."

Yet, unless you have recently been reborn In the Spirit, you still do not forgive the sin of unrepentant homosexuality: you still deny the equality (love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others and all that) of homosexual legal union under the name 'marriage'.

How do you know what I forgive or don't forgive? Gay sex is still a sin, whether I forgive a perpetrator or not.

When you deny equality to homosexuals, you deny the Holy Spirit of Christ. When you deny Jesus' commands to not cast your stony words against sinners (homosexuals), you deny that Jesus has the authority of the Christ.

That's like saying I should embrace adultery and fornication too, and treat them as equally moral behaviors with God-sanctified marriage between a man and a woman.

It is not too late to repent. Bow to God and acknowledge that only He has the authority to forgive or punish the sin of homosexuality as He wishes.

Homosexuals aren't any bigger sinners than adulterers or fornicators, etc., but Jesus did say to repent and receive him for salvation, which they should.

[Flail]

Easyrider

Why is it your business to cast aspersions on homosexuals?....you have to search all the way back to Leviticus to even find support in your supposed Holy Book for your postition...give it a rest...read the Gospels of Jesus Christ and you will find nothing to support your self-righteousness and your judgement of homosexuality....Jesus did, however, speak at length regarding the evil of self righteousness.....and evil is greater than sin....

so first "get the plank out of your own eye"...you are hurting the world...and repeat false prophesy.

[Easyrider]

Easyrider

Why is it your business to cast aspersions on homosexuals?....you have to search all the way back to Leviticus to even find support in your supposed Holy Book for your postition...give it a rest...read the Gospels of Jesus Christ and you will find nothing to support your self-righteousness and your judgement of homosexuality....Jesus did, however, speak at length regarding the evil of self righteousness.....and evil is greater than sin....

so first "get the plank out of your own eye"...you are hurting the world...and repeat false prophesy.

Your theology is typically wanting. I don't have to go all the way back to Leviticus, I can go to Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and other passages.

Second, Jesus is God (many scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sex to begin with; and he's the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sex in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc., etc.

Third, your "judging" argument fails to acknowledge a number of issues, and you can read about them here:

http://easyrider1.wordpress.com/category/theology/ (scroll down 3/4 or so down the page)

Fourth, you don't seem to have any problem judging me and what I write, so why the obvious double standard on your part?