Escape and Recovery from Warren Jeff’s FLDS Polygamous Cult

[Zzyzx]

.
I am honored to be married to a remarkably self-made woman. She was raised in perhaps the most indoctrinating and limiting of environments of modern America – the Fundamentalist Later Day Saints; the polygamous offshoot from Mormonism. She escaped as a teenager and spent twenty years deprogramming herself and learning to live successfully in the real world.

The former “Prophet” of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), Warren Jeffs, is her uncle. He is currently serving “five years to life” in prison after being convicted for his role in a forced marriage and rape. My wife, fearing a fate like that of Elissa Wall (the girl that Jeffs forced to marry at 14 and who was subsequently raped by her husband/first cousin), escaped from the cult as a teenager and later helped her mother to escape and to literally kidnap her younger siblings.

FLDS members practice Polygyny today (multiple wives) and preach that a man can “gain the celestial kingdom” only by having a minimum of three wives – and that women can do so only by being “sealed” (church married) to a man who is going. http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f/f39ac.html.

The FLDS broke away from mainstream Mormonism (LDS) after the main Mormon church disavowed polygamy (after a convenient “revelation from god”) just in time to meet a condition for gaining statehood for Utah. FLDS members were excommunicated by the LDS.

Polygamy (multiple mates) / Polygyny (multiple wives specifically) is only a part of cult beliefs and practices. The church rules in all matters and owns most property. Men are “given” wives by church elders in accordance to their standing with the church. Powerful older men often have scores of wives. My wife’s grandfather (Warren’s father Rulon Jeffs) had something like 75 wives and untold numbers of children when he died as an old man – some of his wives were quite young).

Women are property of their fathers until marriage, then property of their husbands thereafter (but ultimately property of church elders). Young girls raised in the cult are indoctrinated to be totally subservient to males and to do exactly as they are told. Their education is preferably limited to church schools teaching religious dogma and making no effort toward true education. Women must be covered from neck to ankles and wrists with “proper” blouses and skirts (even when swimming). They have absolutely no choice in who they marry. Girls / women are “assigned” to a husband (who can be totally repulsive to them). Courtship is not involved. The two may have never met and they may be totally different in disposition and age. No matter. The church rules.

This is NOT a made up condemnation of the FLDS even though it sounds ridiculous that any such thing could happen in the United States in modern times. Any Internet search will yield abundant information and verification. For a quick overview see http://www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm

My wife knows the difficulty of overcoming cult teachings through deprogramming, and she knows what is required to learn about the real world after being sequestered throughout childhood and taught only church dogma. It took this wonderful, highly intelligent woman twenty years to “become a whole person” and to lear to successfully function within the real world.

She has done an outstanding job of learning to be a strong, confident, well informed woman. Most escapees that we know have not done the hard work necessary and therefore are not strong or independent people. They, males and females alike, tend to be meek, indecisive, confused and beset with low self-image. They typically lack social skills and therefore struggle with personal interactions and with personal relationships. Their decision making ability is usually very poorly developed, so they allow others to make their decisions (often disastrously) – or they make a series of terrible choices on their own without knowing how to make informed decisions.

Alcoholism, drug addiction, prostitution and other forms of self-destructive and escapist behavior are very common among ex-cult members that we have known. Even suicide is not unknown. We do not choose to associate with the “walking wounded” that have not recovered from cultism (including family).

It is all but impossible for those without inside information to understand how thoroughly cult indoctrination limits individual thinking to church dogma and how little the cult people know about the outside world. Many live in the LDS communities of Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona (or similar communities in several states and Canada) and rarely or never venture into the real world.

Those raised in the cult have never known anything except total domination by church elders. They are discouraged from associating with people from “out in the world” as they refer to general society, so they do not learn about individual freedom, legal protections, sources of assistance for those who wish to leave the cult, etc. They attend church schools and are typically forbidden to socialize with “gentiles”.

Of those who do leave the cult, very few do the hard work necessary to overcome their indoctrination and to learn how to function in general society. An outsider cannot comprehend the totality of church domination and the lack of socialization that is inflicted upon members. All decisions are made by the church. Marriages are “arranged” by church elders – courtship is not involved – you marry who you are told to marry – possibly someone you dislike intensely. Men make all decisions for women and children – in accordance with church doctrine.

A man is “given” wives in some relation to his devotion to church elders and to his usefulness to the church. He is also “given” a house – but not the deed to the house. If the man falls out of favor with church elders, his wives and children are “taken from him”, and he is ordered to vacate the house. A high proportion of young men are driven from the cult – in order that “faithful” men can have a minimum of three wives (required to attain the “celestial kingdom” according to church doctrine).
http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamenta ... Day_Saints

According to doctrine, a woman can attain the “celestial kingdom” only by being “sealed to” (church married) to a man who is going there. Men reign supreme. Women are nothing but baby machines and property of males – first their father, then their husband – for life – no exceptions. Men are similarly submissive to church elders. And, Warren Jeffs was the ultimate authority.

Utah and Arizona authorities have overlooked the crimes committed against women and children in the polygamous communities (somewhere around 10,000 people belong to the cult) for fear of bad publicity (as has occurred previously). In the last few years, however, enough attention has been drawn to the situation to make it unavoidable.

Warren Jeffs has been convicted and sentenced to five years to life in prison. The husband/cousin involved in the underage marriage faces rape charges. Perhaps this will be enough to break up church domination of the cult members (though many won’t know what to do or how to live).

Internet information is readily available about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
www.polygamy.org/about.shtml
www.exmormon.org
www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19102395

This is intended as a brief overview and sample of a very involved story. I will add information periodically as appropriate, answer questions or engage in discussion.

If anyone has questions about life inside (and after) the cult, please feel free to ask in this thread or in a PM. My wife and I will give as good an answer as we can. However, we do not have information about recent inside developments, particularly those during the upheaval after Warren Jeffs was imprisoned.



What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

[cdcdcd]

Regarding the “Flag of Truce” idea: I agree that this forum is very well moderated and is generally civil and more or less mutually respectful. However, there is an adversarial element, as expected in debate.

I was thinking of something along the lines of a place where we, representing many different viewpoints, actively seek areas of agreement rather than disagreement. Although we discover areas of agreement in the course of debates, wouldn’t an environment devoted to encouraging discovering agreement be a worthy addition to our efforts?

That would be a great idea. I propose the name "Common Ground".

I support the idea, and "Common Ground" seems a good title.

[Confused]

Something you might find interesting in terms of cult characteristics:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised

Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.



Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

‪ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

[cnorman18]

Something you might find interesting in terms of cult characteristics:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised

Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.



Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

* The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

* Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

* Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

* The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

* The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

* The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

* The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

* The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

* The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

* Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

* The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

* The group is preoccupied with making money.

* Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

* Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

* The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Fascinating stuff! Another mind-altering technique is sleep deprivation, applied especially to new recruits. That, together with a severely restricted calorie intake, renders the mind pliable.

I was wondering how these standards applied to groups like the Amish, which most people would probably regard as "weird, but benign." the same goes for a lot of the small ultra-Orthodox Jewish groups. I guess two differences would be that they are not at all interested in recruiting new members and are not much concerned with making money for the group.

As a college student in the early 70s, I remember thinking that cults were as dangerous as drugs. They were thick on the ground then, mostly some hippie-flavored variant on the "Jesus freaks," as we called them. I read somewhere that religious cults are rather more dangerous for highly intelligent people, especially when young, than might be expected. Since they are used to judging things for themselves, they are more likely, out of curiosity or casual interest, to go to a weekend "retreat' or whatever where the indoctrination and brainwashing can begin than is a kid who isn't so confident.

[rusty]

Zzyzx wrote:
What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

This question can simply be asked, "What distinguishes lies from truth?"

Having your mind filled with lies will certainly limit every aspect of intelect and life. Cults have a goal of brainwashing and controling as many as can be drawn into the cult, by proselitizing or by birth.

Sects and denominations have some truth if they are based on the Bible, and confess Christ as Lord. However, many lies can be attached to off the wall sects and denominations.

Hey Z, I'm going to preach!
All denominations are/have been started by men. All with various levels of understanding and some different methods of teaching which may stress certain parts of the Bible and neglect other parts.

The above two sentences are fact. Very logical fact.

People are sheep. They follow. They follow certain men. They follow certain denominations. They follow feel-good stuff. People have fears and at times reluctant to believe something that scares them, convicts them, or otherwise makes them feel uncomfortable.

The above two sentences are fact. Very logical fact.

There has been a man in history who did not follow other men. I am thinking of Martin Luther. He followed Scripture. He had the cajones to post his treatis on the door of the church's Cardinal. This upset the most powerful organization controling all of Europe and beyond. Martin Luther knew the truth. One man stood alone in the face of the Pope and all his minions. That should say something about Scripture. There is COURAGE in knowing the truth! Martin Luther finally managed to show kings the Truth. The kings protected him from the Pope and his minions who wanted Martin burned at the stake as a heretic.

The above inspires me to look in scripture for truth. I don't rely on men to tell me the "truth." I have a spirit of love for the Bible and this spirit leads me into all truth. The truth blows the lies right out of my mind. I desire to please my father in heaven, not other men. If I please my father, I shall also please my spouse, because she loves the father, too. The father loves affection and righteousness, he wants me to love it, too. I don't want to take advantage of her, and she doesn't want to take advantage of me. She trusts me, I trust her because we are following the righteousness of the father. We do not follow men, we know God ourselves. The truth is right there in the Bible by itself. "The truth will make you free." Proverbs says, "Get wisdom and understanding." If you were reading and wanting to love the Bible without letting SELF, fears, and pride get in the way, you would find the truth right under your nose.

Ask God for the courage of Martin Luther. You'd look around and say, "Wow! this world needs another revival!" Bring it on God! Help me reach people. help me reach my loved ones! Help me wake up fathers in this country to love you, Lord, and to love their children. Protect the children, while the fathers learn. Let them learn so that they can teach the children.........Amen.

Sorry, Z. That went farther than even I expected.
rusty

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

If religious teaching is error then there is no difference with cult indoctination. Lies are lies. Error is error. Both need to be knocked out of the head with truth.

The truth is: The kingdom of heaven is near. It is within you, just as the innocence of a child's heart. For theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. Be forgiven, accept it, believe it, turn to the Father. Let Him be the guide for your footsteps. He will place them on the narow path, for He loves you.

Sorry again Z. But, dang. As I saw some sorrowful children today, and some mean punks. Soon their innocence will be gone and the wrong path will cause them grief and likely grief for others, burglury, drugs, theft, violence, rape, murder. I think we ought to be giving our children a brighter future. Do I sound like a broken record, yet?

God is love. God is righteousness. Pass it on!
rusty

[McCulloch]

What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

This question can simply be asked, "What distinguishes lies from truth?"

Having your mind filled with lies will certainly limit every aspect of intelect and life. Cults have a goal of brainwashing and controling as many as can be drawn into the cult, by proselitizing or by birth.

The truth shall set you free. Christians have a goal of drawing as many as can be drawn into the movement by preaching and teaching, starting as young as they can. How is that different? They are even dishonest in some of the methods used

Sects and denominations have some truth if they are based on the Bible, and confess Christ as Lord. However, many lies can be attached to off the wall sects and denominations.

Most sects and denominations I have run into claim and confess Christ as Lord. That is no guarantee that they respect truth, just dogma.

Hey Z, I'm going to preach!

All denominations are/have been started by men. All with various levels of understanding and some different methods of teaching which may stress certain parts of the Bible and neglect other parts.

The above two sentences are fact. Very logical fact.

People are sheep. They follow. They follow certain men. They follow certain denominations. They follow feel-good stuff. People have fears and at times reluctant to believe something that scares them, convicts them, or otherwise makes them feel uncomfortable.

The above two sentences are fact. Very logical fact.

There has been a man in history who did not follow other men. I am thinking of Martin Luther. He followed Scripture. He had the cajones to post his treatis on the door of the church's Cardinal. This upset the most powerful organization controling all of Europe and beyond. Martin Luther knew the truth. One man stood alone in the face of the Pope and all his minions. That should say something about Scripture. There is COURAGE in knowing the truth! Martin Luther finally managed to show kings the Truth. The kings protected him from the Pope and his minions who wanted Martin burned at the stake as a heretic.

Martin Luther was a man who started a denomination. He stressed certain parts of the Bible and neglected other parts.

The above two sentences are fact.

The above inspires me to look in scripture for truth. I don't rely on men to tell me the "truth." I have a spirit of love for the Bible and this spirit leads me into all truth.

I am inspired to look for truth. I don't rely on humans to tell me the truth. I don't rely on humans who claim to have truth from God, as you do. I have a spirit of love for the Truth and this spirit leads me to search for truth where ever it might be. The Bible is not a particularly good source.

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

If religious teaching is error then there is no difference with cult indoctination. Lies are lies. Error is error. Both need to be knocked out of the head with truth.

IOW cult methods are fine as long as you are teaching Truth™

[Eph]

Zzyzx -

I read your initial blog and skimmed through the rest. As an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I know why you sent me over here. A little about me: I served a 2 year LDS mission, married in the temple, had a child, divorced, had another child (same woman), became inactive for 4 years, found a girlfriend who converted LDS, I got disfellowshipped, married the girlfriend, been active LDS now for 5 years with 2 more kids in the oven (we're having twins). Whew! Maybe some other time, I will go into more detail.

First, let me express my sincere sorrow to you and your wife and everything she has experienced in her life. I cannot imagine what that type of childhood does to one's psyche. You are a good man to be helping her through her struggle including gaining more enlightenment on the subject.

Second, let me respond to the topic of "cultism". A previous blog had a list that defined the meaning quite well. To me, the defining feature of a cult is that it restricts the free agency of its members in such a way that they cannot actively participate in open society without the fear of outright rejection, ostracism or in some cases physical harm, by its leaders or members. The FLDS appears to confine its members in a compound-like environment where they live in isolation, and some live in fear of the factors cited above.

Third, as you already know, the FLDS Church (with a few thousand members) is not associated with the LDS Church (with 13 million members) - unfortunately for LDS members, we are guilty by association. Because of the early LDS (and Biblical) standard of "zionist" gathering, temple rites and worship, and, of course the early practice of polygamy (which Zzyzx claims we "conveniently" gave up to become a state), we have often been given the disparaging label of "cult". Our members and non-member friends know this is not true. While genuine standards and "commandments" are in place, we are firm believers in free agency and in living by the laws of the land. My personal experience is that my LDS friends and family did not abandon me when I left the church for a few years and respected my decisions at the time - truly a "despise the sin, not the sinner" mentality.
We are all different, but, I found the acceptance and guidance that I was seeking. For me this included a solid spiritual base (including the opportunity to serve others), a good social network and becoming more responsible.

Fourth, as far as distinguishing lies from truth: We all have brains, research tools, and are expected to use them. For believers in God - people often scoff because LDS members suggest that we go the the Lord in prayer to discover truth. However, scriiptures give the same suggestion. I believe in brain power and discovery first, then inquiring of the Lord. Personally, this has worked for me over and over again.

[alexiarose]

Zzyzx, I am very sorry for the suffering your wife incurred and inspired by her ability to overcome it.

The line between religious dogma and religious cult is very thin and unfortunately, the sad part is, the strong prey on the weak until they can build their own community that sees them as God. Often, by the time some realize it, it can be near impossible to get out. Their children are brainwashed and it only serves to strengthen the leaders ego. We need to always be aware of the difference between the words of man and the words of God.

[otseng]

If any dissent is prohibited, then I'd classify it as indoctrination. People should be allowed to have different views and to be able to argue why they believe in it.

The prohibition of dissent is difficult to define. The group that says, "Sure you can question and dissent, but we cannot be unequally yoked with unbelievers so if you persist in your unbelief and questioning of God's authority, we will have no choice but to have nothing to do with you. " It looks like a de facto prohibition to me.

Yes, there is a limit to the level of dissent that should be allowed. And that level would be difficult to define. But, what I'm saying is that if all dissent is prohibited, then that would be dangerous. People should not be required to unconditionally accept everything that is taught.

Actually, I rejected Catholicism about twenty years before my wife was born. I was eight years old and church officials LIED about something I had witnessed. My reaction was, “If they will lie to me about the little things they will lie to me about the big things” – and I began asking questions they could not answer.

That paints a clearer picture for me now of your stance of non-theism.

Those questions are STILL unanswered.

I'd be curious what those questions are. Have you started threads on them?

Their choices of mates was extremely limited by church doctrine -- which seems like a serious infringement upon personal freedom.

Where does "force" begin?

There will always be external forces that influence their decision, whether it be church doctrine, culture, friends, family, bank account statements, etc. So, the deciding element for me is did they both agree to the marriage? If so, there is no foul play.

Her husband, a much older man, was chosen by a brother. She was married to him for fifty years until he died – and HATED him.

And here is an example of where one did not agree to the marriage. So, I would not condone this type of situation.

People should also be free to question teachings. If any dissent is prohibited, then I'd classify it as indoctrination. People should be allowed to have different views and to be able to argue why they believe in it.

Agree. Is this common and accepted practice in Christian congregations?

Probably not as much as it should be. But in the church I go to now, dissent is not stifled. And it's a Southern Baptist church! Most of the credit goes to the pastor who is a mature young man. Both me and my wife have doctrinal differences with him, but we are good friends and respect each other's beliefs.

Perhaps we could have a “Flag of Truce” sub-forum where negativism is discouraged and where Theists and Non-theists can exchange ideas in a very non-confrontational format. People might feel comfortable expressing ideas in such an environment that they would be “jumped on” in some of the debate forums.

As McCulloch pointed out, we sort of have this in the Putting Our Heads Together subforum.

I read your initial blog and skimmed through the rest.

To avoid confusion, the word "post" should be used, not "blog". Here is a quick definition of terms used here: What is forum, category, subforum, thread?

[Flail]

Why is it that those born in Indiana have a much better chance at 'truth' than those born in Pakistan?

[twobitsmedia]

Why is it that those born in Indiana have a much better chance at 'truth' than those born in Pakistan?

I would say they don't. People born in the US are usually lethargic to truth. In Pakistan, the difference could be life or death, so it is taken more serious. Some choose to die for it

http://www.persecution.net/country/pakistan.htm

The best that might happen in Inidana is that you might not get your T-shirt:

http://www.spiritshop.com/school/Indian ... 18450.aspx