None good but God

[Wootah]

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Question: If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to tam in post #196]

Yes that is wonderful news. Christianity makes sense of it all. Your religion doesn't. If there are none good but God, how can not good Jesus pay for anything?

His Father, God, is completely satisfied with Jesus paying the price for our salvation. That is all that matters.

Yes the Bible is true but your model doesn't explain it. Your retreat shows this.

How have I "retreated?" The Bible says that Jesus paid for our sins. It can be so because the Father assigned him to do it, whether or not he is perfect.

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #196]

Yes that is wonderful news. Christianity makes sense of it all. Your religion doesn't. If there are none good but God, how can not good Jesus pay for anything?

His Father, God, is completely satisfied with Jesus paying the price for our salvation. That is all that matters.

Yes the Bible is true but your model doesn't explain it. Your retreat shows this.

How have I "retreated?" The Bible says that Jesus paid for our sins. It can be so because the Father assigned him to do it, whether or not he is perfect.

You are retreating to the text, which we all agree with. Now make it make sense.

[Wootah]

Peace to you,

May you have peace!


How can this verse support the trinity doctrine when IN this very verse, Christ (Jaheshua) differentiates between Himself and God?

"Why do you call me good? There are none good but God alone."


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam please answer the first question of the OP first.

If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins? - OP

A - If that Being is the Life. He (and His blood) need only have enough value to cover all other life. That is all that is required for Him to be able to give His life in exchange for our lives (for all the lives that Adam subjected to Death). His life does indeed have more than enough value to exchange for all the rest of life.

"Life for life".




B - It was only His flesh that was 'not good'. Christ could not claim to be good because of His flesh at that time (not to mention that He always glorified His Father, saying, "the Father is greater than I"). Remember, Christ came in the image of sinful man (Romans 8:3), and He would have inherited his flesh from His mother. Despite the RCC doctrine, Mary had sin (error) and death in her flesh. Christ overcame the flesh though - and did not sin. But His flesh - like the rest of mankind - had sin and death in it (or else He would not have died).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Bolding or capitalising words doesn't help here. But you are correct it is life for life. That is my point. Jesus is not equal to God so it is not life for life. If Jesus was equal to God then it would be life for life. You want Jesus' life to cover all other life but think of how insulting it would be if someone killed another person and in response, in payment, they killed a goat and said 'life for life'. Again, the issue is not just your sin but who you sinned against. So even if the payment is for all sin, for all life, it isn't enough when you sin against God.

Tam or onewithhim says: But the Bible says it is enough.

We agree on the Bible but your theology isn't making sense of the Bible is the issue.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

May you have peace!


How can this verse support the trinity doctrine when IN this very verse, Christ (Jaheshua) differentiates between Himself and God?

"Why do you call me good? There are none good but God alone."


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam please answer the first question of the OP first.

If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins? - OP

A - If that Being is the Life. He (and His blood) need only have enough value to cover all other life. That is all that is required for Him to be able to give His life in exchange for our lives (for all the lives that Adam subjected to Death). His life does indeed have more than enough value to exchange for all the rest of life.

"Life for life".




B - It was only His flesh that was 'not good'. Christ could not claim to be good because of His flesh at that time (not to mention that He always glorified His Father, saying, "the Father is greater than I"). Remember, Christ came in the image of sinful man (Romans 8:3), and He would have inherited his flesh from His mother. Despite the RCC doctrine, Mary had sin (error) and death in her flesh. Christ overcame the flesh though - and did not sin. But His flesh - like the rest of mankind - had sin and death in it (or else He would not have died).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Bolding or capitalising words doesn't help here. But you are correct it is life for life. That is my point. Jesus is not equal to God so it is not life for life. If Jesus was equal to God then it would be life for life. You want Jesus' life to cover all other life but think of how insulting it would be if someone killed another person and in response, in payment, they killed a goat and said 'life for life'. Again, the issue is not just your sin but who you sinned against. So even if the payment is for all sin, for all life, it isn't enough when you sin against God.

Tam or onewithhim says: But the Bible says it is enough.

We agree on the Bible but your theology isn't making sense of the Bible is the issue.

"Life for life" does not involve God. It is Christ's life for Adam's life. That is what divine justice involves and the scales are balanced. One perfect man for the other. Divine justice doesn't say that God had to die. God can't die, anyway.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19, Revised Standard Version )

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

May you have peace!


How can this verse support the trinity doctrine when IN this very verse, Christ (Jaheshua) differentiates between Himself and God?

"Why do you call me good? There are none good but God alone."


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam please answer the first question of the OP first.

If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins? - OP

A - If that Being is the Life. He (and His blood) need only have enough value to cover all other life. That is all that is required for Him to be able to give His life in exchange for our lives (for all the lives that Adam subjected to Death). His life does indeed have more than enough value to exchange for all the rest of life.

"Life for life".




B - It was only His flesh that was 'not good'. Christ could not claim to be good because of His flesh at that time (not to mention that He always glorified His Father, saying, "the Father is greater than I"). Remember, Christ came in the image of sinful man (Romans 8:3), and He would have inherited his flesh from His mother. Despite the RCC doctrine, Mary had sin (error) and death in her flesh. Christ overcame the flesh though - and did not sin. But His flesh - like the rest of mankind - had sin and death in it (or else He would not have died).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Bolding or capitalising words doesn't help here. But you are correct it is life for life. That is my point. Jesus is not equal to God so it is not life for life. If Jesus was equal to God then it would be life for life. You want Jesus' life to cover all other life but think of how insulting it would be if someone killed another person and in response, in payment, they killed a goat and said 'life for life'. Again, the issue is not just your sin but who you sinned against. So even if the payment is for all sin, for all life, it isn't enough when you sin against God.

Tam or onewithhim says: But the Bible says it is enough.

We agree on the Bible but your theology isn't making sense of the Bible is the issue.

It IS enough, Wootah. You (and your religion) are creating a problem where none exists. Christ IS enough (more than enough):

"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


You say my 'theology' doesn't make sense, but it is your reasoning that doesn't make sense. Look at what you are saying:

You want Jesus' life to cover all other life but think of how insulting it would be if someone killed another person and in response, in payment, they killed a goat and said 'life for life'.

But God (the 'someone in your analogy') did NOT kill a person, and then in response, kill His Son (the goat in your analogy) in payment. Think your analogy through.

WE are the ones committing sins (including murder.) We are the ones who need a covering (the blood of Christ is that covering). We are the ones who needed to be redeemed.

God gave His Son FOR US. Christ is covering US (with His blood.)

Just as the blood of the lamb on the doorposts in Egypt protected the entire house (every person in that house) from Death when Death passed over the land to take the firstborns.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #205]

Quoting Bible is no use. We both agree on the Bible verses.

The question is how can not God pay for sins against God. You need to explain it not me. If my analogies aren't helping you you explain it.

Sorry I didn't mean God was the someone. I mean suppose Bill killed someone and in response Bill said in payment for my sin I am going to kill a goat. That would be unjust. I am showing how a goat, not a human, can't even begin to pay for sins against humans. So how can not God pay for sins against God.

The blood on the door posts didn't pay for sins for all time against God.

Can you explain your view please?

[Wootah]

"Life for life" does not involve God. It is Christ's life for Adam's life. That is what divine justice involves and the scales are balanced. One perfect man for the other. Divine justice doesn't say that God had to die. God can't die, anyway.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19, Revised Standard Version )

All sin is against God.

Gemini: The concept of sin being ultimately against God is found throughout the Bible. Here are a couple of verses that illustrate this:

Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (NIV). This verse emphasizes that sin separates us from God's perfect character.

Psalm 51:4: "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight; so you are right in your verdict, and innocent when you judge." (NIV). King David, in this psalm of repentance, acknowledges his sin as primarily against God.

These are just two examples, and there are many others. You can find more verses by searching for passages that talk about sin and forgiveness.

Now please explain how not God pays for sin agaisnt God.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #205]

Quoting Bible is no use. We both agree on the Bible verses.

But Wootah, you have not presented any bible verses in support of your claims. You are inventing (or listening to others who have invented) situations that neither Christ nor the apostles spoke/wrote about.

Shouldn't that give you some pause? Make you stop and think that maybe - just maybe - you've misunderstood the basics?

The question is how can not God pay for sins against God. You need to explain it not me. If my analogies aren't helping you you explain it.

But the question doesn't make sense.

Why does God have to pay for sins against God?

Why are you focusing on 'sins against God' rather than simply 'sins'?

How do you know what the value is for sins (or sins against God)? Why could the Son of God - who is the LIFE - not have enough value to pay for sins, regardless of who they are against? He is the Son of God, is He not?

The blood on the door posts didn't pay for sins for all time against God.

Sure but this is a precursor to what was coming. It is a direct comparison between the blood of lambs protecting people from Death (the Destroyer) and the blood of Christ saving people from Death (as well as gaining forgiveness for us because He is our High Priest and He intercedes on our behalf.) How much more value does the blood of the ACTUAL Lamb of God have over a regular lamb?

One sacrifice for all time.

Christ has purchased us BACK from Death (Adam sold the world and his own offspring into slavery to sin and Death; Christ is the ransom sacrifice purchasing us BACK to God.)


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #208]

I present the OT sacrificial system. None of the sacrifices restored the relationship with God.

Why?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #208]

I present the OT sacrificial system. None of the sacrifices restored the relationship with God.

Why?

Christ Jaheshua- the Holy One of God, the Son of God, the Chosen One of God - is not an animal.

Perhaps you could re-read Hebrews 10?

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”[a]

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of [Jesus] Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

So this entire passage is talking about how the animal sacrifices were not enough (indeed, God did not want them nor was He pleased with them); but that Christ IS enough - one sacrifice for all time for sins. He is our High Priest, that He sits at the right hand of God.

Christ is Himself (more than) enough.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy