Why Would God Make Rules Subjugating Women?

[Diogenes]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

[Clownboat]

.
because of the downfall and death caused by Adam and Eve

You offer us religious promotional material? Why? Are you on this debate site to preach at people?

the scriptures command that the man is to go out of his way to especially respect and love the woman exactly as he loves his very own body.

That is terrible advice. Respect should be earned and I would not respect an evil woman nor an evil man. Why is this scripture such terrible advice do you think?

he is to especially care for her, he is commanded to give her his very life and work to sustain her and fortify her and protect her and to give to her in love and sincerity. A man who abuses a woman is to be punished and the woman is to be reconstituted to her rightful place in honor, respect and regarded as precious and priceless.

Men should not abuse woman, full stop... What about a woman that is not respectable, precious nor priceless. Then what?

You forgot to address post 245. Why is that? Are you unable to follow the simple rules of this forum while simultaneously preaching at us? Perhaps trying to slay us with irony?

[Falling Light 101]

.

at what point or situation will a man feel REMORSEFUL or HURT

REMORSEFUL or HURT - for the suffering that Woman has endured for all time since the beginning of known memory



let's  take  a  look  at  honestly

One of the biggest  lies  and  falsehoods  of  the  Trinitarian  Translation  is  the  false  translation  throughout the  New  Testament  that  degrades  the  woman, not only degrading women but also  manipulating and altering the translation to say that............


............. "  woman  is not  permitted  to  teach  "      -      1Ti 2:12

There were a number of female prophets in the Old and New Testament.

reading from the original manuscripts we find that the scriptures do not command a woman to not speak and preach in the Church.....

  1Ti 2:12
 Γυναικι    a  woman     -      δε     also   -       διδασκειν   teaching      -       ουκ    not   -      επιτρεπω    I  allow     -       ουδε   neither     -       αυθεντειν    authorized    -      ανδρος    man    -      αλλ    but     -      ειναι    who  are     -      εν   in    -       ησυχια   quietness

meaning   -     1Ti 2:12

 a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness
 
this is exactly -   WORD  FOR  WORD    _    exactly what the original manuscripts  say.

 it was not a worldly, spontaneous and natural ability for women to travel abroad, traversing and trekking – wandering alone through the deserts, wildernesses and throughout the dangerous mobs of men, to give the prophecy of God to very many people outside of their own close circle of friends and family.

There were many $exist and prejudice people with preconceived judgments and opinions and manipulating agendas   =    there was a whole world that was filled with abusers who raped and manipulated and even kidnapped and $exually sold women in $ex trades   /  sexual  slavery  - the moment that a woman stepped outside of their circle of protection. 

Female prophets in the Bible - were always used and valued in the role of working for God by staying in the in a safe environment - and God used the MALE prophets to go around the entire countryside, across deserts, through wildernesses and on long paths and even  lifelong  adventures that include all the details in entire multiple books of the Bible - and to serve with Kings and leaders in a time of war and in dangerous situations  -   where the males usually were situated and needed and could sustain  and  endure withing this environment  -      - and women did not expect to reasonably  serve in these capacities.

 my  friends  =     we have a   horrible situation with the Trinitarian Translators who have changed much of the Bible.

In 1Co 14:28 - it says, concerning speaking in  tongues  in the church - If there be no interpreter, - “ keep silence “ in the church; and speak to themselves and to God.

 :29 Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. - :30 If anything is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first - - “ hold their peace. “

But the original does not say “ let the first - hold his peace - “

 - verse  :30  literally says - let the first - “ BE SILENT. “ / No Talking.

 This Greek word is “ SILENCE “ ... And verse :35 is totally mistranslated - it says - And if ( the women who are directly involved ) “ “ WILL OR WOULD ask “ “ A CERTAIN THING.. about what happened - let them ask their husbands  IN  the  home -  for it is a shame for women to say in the church.   But this is only speaking of the situation directly involving church order,   that ALSO involves  also  the  MALES  who are also commanded to be      - - - -      “ SILENT “__

the  trinitarians   lied.

The Greek manuscripts say that the Males also - the entire church is to be " silent

 " -    ........ The Trinitarian Translators changed the word " silent " into  saying

 hold their peace   -  but the  Greek  word  is  "      Σιγάω -    sigaō -   silence   "

 notice  -    ONLY  when the Greek word is orbiting  around   -  women   -  do  they change the exact same word back into    " silence "    -    only when addressing the women.

The Trinitarians invent and switch out words to create a hostile and downcast view for the environment involving women in the church.

Women are to have shame facedness ? - - or are the woman - to have reverence ?

The Greek word means reverence and they use this word to mean reverence in all other verses - but when it comes to women - they change it = to say shame facedness ...

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with reverence and self – control ; not with gridded hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; :10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence “ quietness “ with all subjection.

This is not the word  "   Σιγάω - sigaō   "  - silence   -   in the manuscripts.

This is the word meaning peacefulness and quietness / quietly - meaning { not making a lot of noise } G2271 - quietly - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia - hay-soo-khee'-ah - Meaning = stillness, that is, desistance from bustle or language: - quietness. “ No loud and noisy talking while learning. “   peacefully

The Translators CHANGED the word “ quietness “  peacefully    -   into silence – when the Bible says that women who are learning about God are to learn = “ quietly “ - - This is not the same Greek word “ SILENCE “ the word “ SILENCE “ is G4601 Σιγάω  -  sigaō  -  see-gah'-o      _  = To keep  SILENT   ( - keep close (secret, silence), - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -  stillness,  - quietness.   “   peacefully  has absolutely nothing to do with being “ SILENT “

Yet - The translators correctly translate the same exact word - to say “ quietness “ - in 2Th 3:12 - The disorderly people in church are to worship in “ quietness “ and they work, and eat their own bread.

 But the word “ quietness “ has nothing to do with women here in - 2Th 3:12 – but they change it into the word silence only when it involves women. 

The word = “ quietness “  1 - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -   -hēsuchios -  

These verses below are how this word is used,

2Th 3:12 The disorderly in the church are commanded that - with “ quietness “ they work
1Ti 2:2 Kings, and all in authority -- may lead a “ quiet “ and peaceable life .
1Pe 3:4 a meek and “ quiet “ spirit

It has nothing to do with being “ SILENNT“ and not opening your mouth and not speaking. - The translators changed the word to say - “ SILENCE “ only and every single time it involves “ women “ - but every single last time in the bible when it does not involve woman - they translate it correctly as = “ quietness “ meaning = peaceful and calm. 

We see that the Translators already begin - in 1 st - Timothy Chap 2 - to create aN UNHOLY  $exist version of the message.

In - 1Ti 2:1 - The word for “ mankind “ is   - ἀ ́ν θρωπος - anthrōpos - anth'-ro-pos – anthropoid. The original Authors are using the word - anthro ̄pos / - to indicate mankind and both male and female – yet the translators add the word man and assign it a male sex.-     calling all of mankind as a    -   “ he - sex “

Again as we see - 1Ti 2:1 = I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all MANKIND - again the word is = ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - not – males only. –

AND also - VERY - IMPORTANT = 1Ti chapter 2: - is speaking about woman - who are beginning their learning experience in Yahoshua. And the Trinitarian translators have so completely perverted – so completely distorted and changed, and altered the Bible - by creating a totally sexist rendering of the text, by changing the all of the words meaning ---- - “ ALL OF MANKIND “ = into the male sex ( ONLY ) - 

that by the time that the reader gets to verse – where it says in verse  : 12 

: 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness


. - The reader is completely  brainwashed by the  Trinitarian  Translation    -    completely obvlious and totally missing the previous context - to the fact.......

......that Paul was only speaking and commenting -on / about – concerning - the subject of the women who just beginning to learn about God - and Paul is only relating to the previous verse - 1Ti 2:11 Let the woman “ LEARN “ in “ quietness “ with all subjection.   the trinitarians change this  in  into  SILENCE  

 then   -   verse - : 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietnes

The whole verse - : 12 - is completely ripped completely out of its entire context.

 Paul was  previously speaking about women who are beginning and LEARNING - they are not to be loud, noisy and dominating over the men around them and are - not to be teaching the men around them.  while  in the process of just   beginning to be LEARNING

 yet  we also ee that women are prophets, and are speaking in tongues.

Gal 3:26-28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male “ AND “ female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Act 2:17 and your daughters shall prophesy. - There are six female prophets mentioned in - Exo_15:20, Jdg_4:4, 2Ki_22:14, 2Ch_34:22, Neh_6:14 and Isa_8:3 - and - In Acts 6. there were four daughters who could prophesy.

In Acts 21:9. Paul said that women were prophesying in the church. - There is absolutely no reason to assign a male sex to the person speaking in tongues – nor to the prophesier in church..and the Greek grammar rules are not existing in these particular verses - that apply any grammar rule to mention the speaker of tongues as strictly male sex.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that says that women are to be completely “ silent “ in the church. - outside of the verse about speaking in tongues. - Addressing Males and Females - to do the same.... The other verses are Trinitarian mistranslations - the Greek word is “ quietness “ stillness, from bustle or loud talking. - and “ No loud and noisy talking while learning – no dominating and teaching the men around them - if they are learning .....

 Paul was saying that while he was teaching – he did not allow women in the church to act this way while they were in the learning process - this is what the whole verse is about.

  they changed the words of the original Bible to invent this doctrine.   just a slight alteration or deviation or change  can  completely  change the original meaning and intent of the original message.

stillness, - quietness. “ peacefully has absolutely nothing to do with being “ SILENT “ - - the Trinitarian Translators have lied and changed the ORIGINAL manuscripts message to project and propagate their Trinitarian Faith System

[Falling Light 101]

.


let the Canaanite in myself as " Me " that is me myself CLAIM - I AM + = ITALAIN

[Clownboat]

.

at what point or situation will a man feel REMORSEFUL or HURT

REMORSEFUL or HURT - for the suffering that Woman has endured for all time since the beginning of known memory



let's  take  a  look  at  honestly

One of the biggest  lies  and  falsehoods  of  the  Trinitarian  Translation  is  the  false  translation  throughout the  New  Testament  that  degrades  the  woman, not only degrading women but also  manipulating and altering the translation to say that............


............. "  woman  is not  permitted  to  teach  "      -      1Ti 2:12

There were a number of female prophets in the Old and New Testament.

reading from the original manuscripts we find that the scriptures do not command a woman to not speak and preach in the Church.....

  1Ti 2:12
 Γυναικι    a  woman     -      δε     also   -       διδασκειν   teaching      -       ουκ    not   -      επιτρεπω    I  allow     -       ουδε   neither     -       αυθεντειν    authorized    -      ανδρος    man    -      αλλ    but     -      ειναι    who  are     -      εν   in    -       ησυχια   quietness

meaning   -     1Ti 2:12

 a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness
 
this is exactly -   WORD  FOR  WORD    _    exactly what the original manuscripts  say.

 it was not a worldly, spontaneous and natural ability for women to travel abroad, traversing and trekking – wandering alone through the deserts, wildernesses and throughout the dangerous mobs of men, to give the prophecy of God to very many people outside of their own close circle of friends and family.

There were many $exist and prejudice people with preconceived judgments and opinions and manipulating agendas   =    there was a whole world that was filled with abusers who raped and manipulated and even kidnapped and $exually sold women in $ex trades   /  sexual  slavery  - the moment that a woman stepped outside of their circle of protection. 

Female prophets in the Bible - were always used and valued in the role of working for God by staying in the in a safe environment - and God used the MALE prophets to go around the entire countryside, across deserts, through wildernesses and on long paths and even  lifelong  adventures that include all the details in entire multiple books of the Bible - and to serve with Kings and leaders in a time of war and in dangerous situations  -   where the males usually were situated and needed and could sustain  and  endure withing this environment  -      - and women did not expect to reasonably  serve in these capacities.

 my  friends  =     we have a   horrible situation with the Trinitarian Translators who have changed much of the Bible.

In 1Co 14:28 - it says, concerning speaking in  tongues  in the church - If there be no interpreter, - “ keep silence “ in the church; and speak to themselves and to God.

 :29 Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. - :30 If anything is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first - - “ hold their peace. “

But the original does not say “ let the first - hold his peace - “

 - verse  :30  literally says - let the first - “ BE SILENT. “ / No Talking.

 This Greek word is “ SILENCE “ ... And verse :35 is totally mistranslated - it says - And if ( the women who are directly involved ) “ “ WILL OR WOULD ask “ “ A CERTAIN THING.. about what happened - let them ask their husbands  IN  the  home -  for it is a shame for women to say in the church.   But this is only speaking of the situation directly involving church order,   that ALSO involves  also  the  MALES  who are also commanded to be      - - - -      “ SILENT “__

the  trinitarians   lied.

The Greek manuscripts say that the Males also - the entire church is to be " silent

 " -    ........ The Trinitarian Translators changed the word " silent " into  saying

 hold their peace   -  but the  Greek  word  is  "      Σιγάω -    sigaō -   silence   "

 notice  -    ONLY  when the Greek word is orbiting  around   -  women   -  do  they change the exact same word back into    " silence "    -    only when addressing the women.

The Trinitarians invent and switch out words to create a hostile and downcast view for the environment involving women in the church.

Women are to have shame facedness ? - - or are the woman - to have reverence ?

The Greek word means reverence and they use this word to mean reverence in all other verses - but when it comes to women - they change it = to say shame facedness ...

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with reverence and self – control ; not with gridded hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; :10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence “ quietness “ with all subjection.

This is not the word  "   Σιγάω - sigaō   "  - silence   -   in the manuscripts.

This is the word meaning peacefulness and quietness / quietly - meaning { not making a lot of noise } G2271 - quietly - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia - hay-soo-khee'-ah - Meaning = stillness, that is, desistance from bustle or language: - quietness. “ No loud and noisy talking while learning. “   peacefully

The Translators CHANGED the word “ quietness “  peacefully    -   into silence – when the Bible says that women who are learning about God are to learn = “ quietly “ - - This is not the same Greek word “ SILENCE “ the word “ SILENCE “ is G4601 Σιγάω  -  sigaō  -  see-gah'-o      _  = To keep  SILENT   ( - keep close (secret, silence), - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -  stillness,  - quietness.   “   peacefully  has absolutely nothing to do with being “ SILENT “

Yet - The translators correctly translate the same exact word - to say “ quietness “ - in 2Th 3:12 - The disorderly people in church are to worship in “ quietness “ and they work, and eat their own bread.

 But the word “ quietness “ has nothing to do with women here in - 2Th 3:12 – but they change it into the word silence only when it involves women. 

The word = “ quietness “  1 - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -   -hēsuchios -  

These verses below are how this word is used,

2Th 3:12 The disorderly in the church are commanded that - with “ quietness “ they work
1Ti 2:2 Kings, and all in authority -- may lead a “ quiet “ and peaceable life .
1Pe 3:4 a meek and “ quiet “ spirit

It has nothing to do with being “ SILENNT“ and not opening your mouth and not speaking. - The translators changed the word to say - “ SILENCE “ only and every single time it involves “ women “ - but every single last time in the bible when it does not involve woman - they translate it correctly as = “ quietness “ meaning = peaceful and calm. 

We see that the Translators already begin - in 1 st - Timothy Chap 2 - to create aN UNHOLY  $exist version of the message.

In - 1Ti 2:1 - The word for “ mankind “ is   - ἀ ́ν θρωπος - anthrōpos - anth'-ro-pos – anthropoid. The original Authors are using the word - anthro ̄pos / - to indicate mankind and both male and female – yet the translators add the word man and assign it a male sex.-     calling all of mankind as a    -   “ he - sex “

Again as we see - 1Ti 2:1 = I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all MANKIND - again the word is = ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - not – males only. –

AND also - VERY - IMPORTANT = 1Ti chapter 2: - is speaking about woman - who are beginning their learning experience in Yahoshua. And the Trinitarian translators have so completely perverted – so completely distorted and changed, and altered the Bible - by creating a totally sexist rendering of the text, by changing the all of the words meaning ---- - “ ALL OF MANKIND “ = into the male sex ( ONLY ) - 

that by the time that the reader gets to verse – where it says in verse  : 12 

: 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness


. - The reader is completely  brainwashed by the  Trinitarian  Translation    -    completely obvlious and totally missing the previous context - to the fact.......

......that Paul was only speaking and commenting -on / about – concerning - the subject of the women who just beginning to learn about God - and Paul is only relating to the previous verse - 1Ti 2:11 Let the woman “ LEARN “ in “ quietness “ with all subjection.   the trinitarians change this  in  into  SILENCE  

 then   -   verse - : 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietnes

The whole verse - : 12 - is completely ripped completely out of its entire context.

 Paul was  previously speaking about women who are beginning and LEARNING - they are not to be loud, noisy and dominating over the men around them and are - not to be teaching the men around them.  while  in the process of just   beginning to be LEARNING

 yet  we also ee that women are prophets, and are speaking in tongues.

Gal 3:26-28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male “ AND “ female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Act 2:17 and your daughters shall prophesy. - There are six female prophets mentioned in - Exo_15:20, Jdg_4:4, 2Ki_22:14, 2Ch_34:22, Neh_6:14 and Isa_8:3 - and - In Acts 6. there were four daughters who could prophesy.

In Acts 21:9. Paul said that women were prophesying in the church. - There is absolutely no reason to assign a male sex to the person speaking in tongues – nor to the prophesier in church..and the Greek grammar rules are not existing in these particular verses - that apply any grammar rule to mention the speaker of tongues as strictly male sex.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that says that women are to be completely “ silent “ in the church. - outside of the verse about speaking in tongues. - Addressing Males and Females - to do the same.... The other verses are Trinitarian mistranslations - the Greek word is “ quietness “ stillness, from bustle or loud talking. - and “ No loud and noisy talking while learning – no dominating and teaching the men around them - if they are learning .....

 Paul was saying that while he was teaching – he did not allow women in the church to act this way while they were in the learning process - this is what the whole verse is about.

  they changed the words of the original Bible to invent this doctrine.   just a slight alteration or deviation or change  can  completely  change the original meaning and intent of the original message.

stillness, - quietness. “ peacefully has absolutely nothing to do with being “ SILENT “ - - the Trinitarian Translators have lied and changed the ORIGINAL manuscripts message to project and propagate their Trinitarian Faith System

Let us know if you have any debate questions.
Thanks,

[Falling Light 101]

What does the bible really say about covering the head - we can look beyond the Trinitarian Translations that pervert the word of God and see

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT COVERING THE HEAD


The Trinitarians also INSERTED or ADDED the words " having his head covered, " in verse :14

verse :14 says nothing about a man head being covered - the word covered does not exist in the Greek manuscripts - Trinitarians inserted this word into their translation.

1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

This is a LIE

REMEMBER   AS  I  HAVE  POSTED  ABOVE

in    1Co 11:5          the  author is saying that people  shame  their  own  head      themselves     not in the way they  dress their   head  


       Verse  5   AS    THE  MANS  HEAD    HAVING   SHAME,       SO  THAT    HEAD     IS     ALSO  -     THE  WIFE   SHAMES,     THIS      HEAD    HERSELF 

And here is  the  next verse    -  6   


1Co 11:6                          ει   IF   -    γαρ   FOR    -     ου   NOT    -    κατακαλυπτεται   WHEN   COVERED    -    γυνη   WOMEN    -    και   ALSO    -    κειρασθω   HAVING  SHORN     -      ει   THIS    -    δε   ALSO    -                 αισχρον   SHAMES -    γυναικι  A  WOMAN    -    το   THAT    -     κειρασθαι   IS   SHORN     -    η   OR    -    ξυρασθαι   SHAVED    -    κατακαλυπτεσθω   WHEN  COMPLETELY  COVERED.

:6                         IF   FOR   NOT   WHEN   COVERED   WOMEN   ALSO   HAVING  SHORN ,     THIS    ALSO       SHAMES   A  WOMAN  THAT   IS   SHORN   OR      SHAVED   WHEN  COMPLETELY  COVERED.

Paul  is saying that it is not changing anything by covering your head -    if a woman's   head  is  shamed  by  cutting  the  hair   -  what  does  it matter concerning wither or not she covers her head or not. 

AS    THE  MANS  HEAD      HAVING   SHAME,       SO  THAT    HEAD     IS

  ALSO  -     THE  WIFE   SHAMES,     THIS      HEAD    HERSELF 

Trinitarians  completely  pervert and mistranslate these passages        -     just compare the original  manuscript  message  to  what  Trinitarians   have in  verse  6 :  

Manuscript    -       :6                         IF   FOR   NOT   WHEN   COVERED,   WOMEN   ALSO   HAVING  SHORN ,     THIS    ALSO       SHAMES   A  WOMAN  THAT   IS   SHORN   OR    SHAVED      WHEN  COMPLETELY  COVERED.

Trinitarian  perversion    -       1Co 11:6    For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.


4  -      ALL   MEN     PRAYING       OR      PROPHECYING       AS       THE  HEAD     HAVING      SHAME   -      THAT    HEAD      IS

  5   -      ALL     ALSO     WIFE      PRAYING         OR     PROPHECYING          UNCOVERING       OF     THE   HEAD          SHAMES          THIS      HEAD         HERSELF    -        IN        FOR        BEING      ALSO         THIS     HERSELF         THE     UNSHAVEN 

:6                         IF   FOR   NOT   WHEN   COVERED,   WOMEN   ALSO   HAVING  SHORN ,     THIS    ALSO       SHAMES   A  WOMAN  THAT   IS   SHORN   OR    SHAVED      WHEN  COMPLETELY  COVERED.

  Judge  in  yourselves:    is it  proper   that  a  woman  pray  unto  God  uncovered    ?  

        But   if   anyone   seem   to   be   contentious,    we have no such custom,    neither the churches of God.

you will find that  Trinitarians  go trough the entire Bible making  changes  and  they completely pervert the w\entire Bible.

these passages are such a disgrace and perversion in the Trinitarian  Translation.


and  finally       1Co 11:7  ανηρ MEN - μεν TRULLY - γαρ FOR - ουκ NOT - οφειλει SHOULD - κατακαλυπτεσθαι WHEN COVERING - την THE - κεφαλην HEAD - εικων IMAGE - και AND - δοξα GLORY - θεου GOD - υπαρχων BEING - γυνη WOMEN - δε ALSO - δοξα GLORY - ανδρος THE MEN - εστιν WHO ARE.


    MEN     TRULY       FOR         NOT      SHOULD       WHEN  COVERING      THE        HEAD       IMAGE        AND     GLORY       GOD 

     BEING      WOMEN      ALSO       GLORY     THE  MEN      WHO  ARE.

Paul is saying that  men  and  women  are not  imaging  and  glorifying  God  by covering their head. 

 1Co 11:6  ει IF - γαρ FOR - ου NOT - κατακαλυπτεται WHEN COVERED - γυνη WOMEN - και ALSO - κειρασθω HAVING SHORN - ει THIS - δε ALSO - αισχρον SHAMES - γυναικι A WOMAN - το THAT - κειρασθαι IS SHORN - η OR - ξυρασθαι SHAVED - κατακαλυπτεσθω WHEN COMPLETELY COVERED.

:6  IF FOR NOT WHEN COVERED WOMEN ALSO HAVING SHORN , THIS ALSO SHAMES A WOMAN THAT IS SHORN OR SHAVED WHEN COMPLETELY COVERED.

1Co 11:6  For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 

1Co 11:7  ανηρ MEN - μεν TRULLY - γαρ FOR - ουκ NOT - οφειλει SHOULD - κατακαλυπτεσθαι WHEN COVERING - την THE - κεφαλην HEAD - εικων IMAGE - και AND - δοξα GLORY - θεου GOD - υπαρχων BEING - γυνη WOMEN - δε ALSO - δοξα GLORY - ανδρος THE MEN - εστιν WHO ARE.


1Co 11:8  ου ^{NOT -} γαρ ^{FOR -} εστιν ^{IT IS -} ανηρ ^{MALE -} εκ ^{OUT OF -} γυναικος ^{THE WOMAN -} αλλα ^{BUT -} γυνη ^{WOMAN -} εξ ^{OUT OF -} ανδρος ^{THE MALE.}

1Co 11:9  και ^{AND -} γαρ FOR ^- ουκ ^{NOT -} εκτισθη ^{CREATED -} ανηρ ^{MALE -} δια ^{FROM -} την ^{THE -} γυναικα ^{WOMAN -} αλλα ^{BUT -} γυνη ^{WOMAN -} δια ^{FROM -} τον ^{THE -} ανδρα ^{THE MALE.}

covering the head and hair length and style is not a part of the importance
neither is the scriptures -

or else - All Trinitarians would demand their Trinitarian woman to cover their haircuts - but trinitarians are not even interested in following even their own perverted mistranslations .

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm sorry, but I cannot go along with this torturing of greek translation. Nor could I suppose that generally agreed Bible translations are all wrong because they are Trinitarians. I see nothing about a woman having her head shaved. It is simply an injunction that they should cover their hair, at least when in religious assembly. I don't even recall Paul nor any other part of the NT approving women teachers or preachers. What they are supposed to do is act as enablers and facilitators for the creed, authority and control of the religion the men go around preaching. They may get praise and even thanks as helpers and supporters of the men who preach this stuff, but as for speaking out or even asking questions, they should know their place.

[Falling Light 101]

let's  take  a  look  at  honestly

One of the biggest  lies  and  falsehoods  of  the  Trinitarian  Translation  is  the  false  translation  throughout the  New  Testament  that  degrades  the  woman, not only degrading women but also  manipulating and altering the translation to say that............


............. "  woman  is not  permitted  to  teach  "      -      1Ti 2:12

There were a number of female prophets in the Old and New Testament.

reading from the original manuscripts we find that the scriptures do not command a woman to not speak and preach in the Church.....

  1Ti 2:12
 Γυναικι    a  woman     -      δε     also   -       διδασκειν   teaching      -       ουκ    not   -      επιτρεπω    I  allow     -       ουδε   neither     -       αυθεντειν    authorized    -      ανδρος    man    -      αλλ    but     -      ειναι    who  are     -      εν   in    -       ησυχια   quietness

meaning   -     1Ti 2:12

 a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness
 
this is exactly -   WORD  FOR  WORD    _    exactly what the original manuscripts  say.

 it was not a worldly, spontaneous and natural ability for women to travel abroad, traversing and trekking – wandering alone through the deserts, wildernesses and throughout the dangerous mobs of men, to give the prophecy of God to very many people outside of their own close circle of friends and family.

There were many $exist and prejudice people with preconceived judgments and opinions and manipulating agendas   =    there was a whole world that was filled with abusers who raped and manipulated and even kidnapped and $exually sold women in $ex trades   /  sexual  slavery  - the moment that a woman stepped outside of their circle of protection. 

Female prophets in the Bible - were always used and valued in the role of working for God by staying in the in a safe environment - and God used the MALE prophets to go around the entire countryside, across deserts, through wildernesses and on long paths and even  lifelong  adventures that include all the details in entire multiple books of the Bible - and to serve with Kings and leaders in a time of war and in dangerous situations  -   where the males usually were situated and needed and could sustain  and  endure withing this environment  -      - and women did not expect to reasonably  serve in these capacities.

 my  friends  =     we have a   horrible situation with the Trinitarian Translators who have changed much of the Bible.

In 1Co 14:28 - it says, concerning speaking in  tongues  in the church - If there be no interpreter, - “ keep silence “ in the church; and speak to themselves and to God.

 :29 Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. - :30 If anything is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first - - “ hold their peace. “

But the original does not say “ let the first - hold his peace - “

 - verse  :30  literally says - let the first - “ BE SILENT. “ / No Talking.

 This Greek word is “ SILENCE “ ... And verse :35 is totally mistranslated - it says - And if ( the women who are directly involved ) “ “ WILL OR WOULD ask “ “ A CERTAIN THING.. about what happened - let them ask their husbands  IN  the  home -  for it is a shame for women to say in the church.   But this is only speaking of the situation directly involving church order,   that ALSO involves  also  the  MALES  who are also commanded to be      - - - -      “ SILENT “__

the  trinitarians   lied.

The Greek manuscripts say that the Males also - the entire church is to be " silent

 " -    ........ The Trinitarian Translators changed the word " silent " into  saying

 hold their peace   -  but the  Greek  word  is  "      Σιγάω -    sigaō -   silence   "

 notice  -    ONLY  when the Greek word is orbiting  around   -  women   -  do  they change the exact same word back into    " silence "    -    only when addressing the women.

The Trinitarians invent and switch out words to create a hostile and downcast view for the environment involving women in the church.

Women are to have shame facedness ? - - or are the woman - to have reverence ?

The Greek word means reverence and they use this word to mean reverence in all other verses - but when it comes to women - they change it = to say shame facedness ...

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with reverence and self – control ; not with gridded hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; :10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence “ quietness “ with all subjection.

This is not the word  "   Σιγάω - sigaō   "  - silence   -   in the manuscripts.

This is the word meaning peacefulness and quietness / quietly - meaning { not making a lot of noise } G2271 - quietly - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia - hay-soo-khee'-ah - Meaning = stillness, that is, desistance from bustle or language: - quietness. “ No loud and noisy talking while learning. “   peacefully

The Translators CHANGED the word “ quietness “  peacefully    -   into silence – when the Bible says that women who are learning about God are to learn = “ quietly “ - - This is not the same Greek word “ SILENCE “ the word “ SILENCE “ is G4601 Σιγάω  -  sigaō  -  see-gah'-o      _  = To keep  SILENT   ( - keep close (secret, silence), - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -  stillness,  - quietness.   “   peacefully  has absolutely nothing to do with being “ SILENT “

Yet - The translators correctly translate the same exact word - to say “ quietness “ - in 2Th 3:12 - The disorderly people in church are to worship in “ quietness “ and they work, and eat their own bread.

 But the word “ quietness “ has nothing to do with women here in - 2Th 3:12 – but they change it into the word silence only when it involves women. 

The word = “ quietness “  1 - ἡσυχία - hēsuchia -   -hēsuchios -  

These verses below are how this word is used,

2Th 3:12 The disorderly in the church are commanded that - with “ quietness “ they work
1Ti 2:2 Kings, and all in authority -- may lead a “ quiet “ and peaceable life .
1Pe 3:4 a meek and “ quiet “ spirit

It has nothing to do with being “ SILENNT“ and not opening your mouth and not speaking. - The translators changed the word to say - “ SILENCE “ only and every single time it involves “ women “ - but every single last time in the bible when it does not involve woman - they translate it correctly as = “ quietness “ meaning = peaceful and calm. 

We see that the Translators already begin - in 1 st - Timothy Chap 2 - to create aN UNHOLY  $exist version of the message.

In - 1Ti 2:1 - The word for “ mankind “ is   - ἀ ́ν θρωπος - anthrōpos - anth'-ro-pos – anthropoid. The original Authors are using the word - anthro ̄pos / - to indicate mankind and both male and female – yet the translators add the word man and assign it a male sex.-     calling all of mankind as a    -   “ he - sex “

Again as we see - 1Ti 2:1 = I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all MANKIND - again the word is = ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - not – males only. –

AND also - VERY - IMPORTANT = 1Ti chapter 2: - is speaking about woman - who are beginning their learning experience in Yahoshua. And the Trinitarian translators have so completely perverted – so completely distorted and changed, and altered the Bible - by creating a totally sexist rendering of the text, by changing the all of the words meaning ---- - “ ALL OF MANKIND “ = into the male sex ( ONLY ) - 

that by the time that the reader gets to verse – where it says in verse  : 12 

: 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietness


. - The reader is completely  brainwashed by the  Trinitarian  Translation    -    completely obvlious and totally missing the previous context - to the fact.......

......that Paul was only speaking and commenting -on / about – concerning - the subject of the women who just beginning to learn about God - and Paul is only relating to the previous verse - 1Ti 2:11 Let the woman “ LEARN “ in “ quietness “ with all subjection.   the trinitarians change this  in  into  SILENCE  

 then   -   verse - : 12   a  woman  also  teaching  not  I  allow  neither  an  authorized  man  but  who  are  in  quietnes

The whole verse - : 12 - is completely ripped completely out of its entire context.

 Paul was  previously speaking about women who are beginning and LEARNING - they are not to be loud, noisy and dominating over the men around them and are - not to be teaching the men around them.  while  in the process of just   beginning to be LEARNING

 yet  we also ee that women are prophets, and are speaking in tongues.

Gal 3:26-28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male “ AND “ female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Act 2:17 and your daughters shall prophesy. - There are six female prophets mentioned in - Exo_15:20, Jdg_4:4, 2Ki_22:14, 2Ch_34:22, Neh_6:14 and Isa_8:3 - and - In Acts 6. there were four daughters who could prophesy.

In Acts 21:9. Paul said that women were prophesying in the church. - There is absolutely no reason to assign a male sex to the person speaking in tongues – nor to the prophesier in church..and the Greek grammar rules are not existing in these particular verses - that apply any grammar rule to mention the speaker of tongues as strictly male sex.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that says that women are to be completely “ silent “ in the church. - outside of the verse about speaking in tongues. - Addressing Males and Females - to do the same.... The other verses are Trinitarian mistranslations - the Greek word is “ quietness “ stillness, from bustle or loud talking. - and “ No loud and noisy talking while learning – no dominating and teaching the men around them - if they are learning .....

 Paul was saying that while he was teaching – he did not allow women in the church to act this way while they were in the learning process - this is what the whole verse is about.

  they changed the words of the original Bible to invent this doctrine.   just a slight alteration or deviation or change  can  completely  change the original meaning and intent of the original message.

[Rational Agnostic]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

I don't know. Maybe because he was invented by sexist, angry guys who wanted to make up a creator of the universe who was just like them?