Pre-marital sex and relationships

[agnosticatheist]

Christians, you contend we are not supposed to have sex before we are MARRIED.

What is wrong with a couple who has been together for a long time having sex before they get married?

If you buy a car, or a house, dont you want to check it out before you buy it?

What if you are moving towards getting married? Dont you want to know what the person you will spend the rest of your life with looks like naked? And there's practical issues too. I dont want to get too graphic here, but the tightness of the female v***** varies from individual to individual, and the thickness of the male p**** varies from individual to individual. Dont you want to make sure your organs are compatible and not mismatched? Dont you want to know what your partner smells and tastes like? Dont you want to know if the female is or isnt allergic to your semen? Dont you want to know if your partner is frigid and non expressive or vibrant and expressive? Dont you want to know if your partner is down for trying a lot or is not open to much more than missionary?

Oh but no, you and God tell us we are supposed to basically do a blind buy with respect to one of the most important aspects of a normal marriage.

Yeah, sorry, but im going with reason here.

[OnceConvinced]

However test driving surely has to be better than never test driving at all.

The important problem not discussed yet is that sex before marriage has little to do with test driving but mostly with going for a joy ride then getting back to drinking with your friends.

Talk about cheapening the act of sex! Is that what you think everyone is doing? Just for the momentary pleasure of it? A joy ride?? lol

Anyway, how is that any different to marital sex? Even in marriage it's as much about pleasure as anything else.

For me, when I have sex with a woman, it's not just about pleasure. It's also about showing my love and affection for that person. I don't need marriage for that.

The only other thing it could possibly be for is procreation, but even a married couple is not doing it for that all the time. In fact unless they have trouble with fertility, I bet it's rarely for that.

[OnceConvinced]

. The problem with taking test runs, is that not everyone is prepared to take on the responsibilities of what might happen.

If someone is married does that mean they are any more prepared really? Is there any more guarantee they're gonna do a better job at dealing with the responsibilities?

Sex is a beautiful gift in marriage.

It's a beautiful gift outside of marriage too. Some of my most beautiful experiences have been with woman where no relationship developed.

A couple of trial runs might be rocky at first, or great sex at first, might turn rocky later. There are no guarantees.

Agreed. But jumping head first into marriage is risky. No guarantees there either.

What helps, what makes the sex great, is knowing that your partner, loves you regardless or not if your having an off week or an off month for that matter.

It can be, but sex is just a physical act. It need not have any emotional ties. It doesn't need emotional ties to be wonderful or beautiful. The best sex I have ever had was with women where there were no emotional ties.

When you love someone and you want to spend the rest of your life with them, you learn what pleases them....and that IS great sex!

But it's not always possible to please them, that's the problem. Sometimes people are just not sexually compatible. I guess unless you have been in that relationship you won't know that. I have been. Was in it for 11 years and it caused all sorts of issues which were beyond my control.

[Masamune]

I'm just addressing the initial post here. I don't care if people have sex before marriage. But I do think there is a lot of superficiality to the idea that sex MUST happen before marriage. Sexual intensity can be built, if there is emotional chemistry. Instant fire is not required to have a healthy sex life. Some Christians have this pie in the sky view that the first moment a couple who has waited has sex, it will be this amazing experience. Conversely though, I think there is also this view that physical compatible is always separate from emotional compatibility. In my opinion and experience, they are inextricably linked.

My wife and I decided to wait. I don't think anyone wants to read too much about my sex life, but I will just say this: We were virgins, it was bad at first, now it is the opposite of bad. Of course, we both expected all of this, because we were educated about sex (it is a foolish tendency of some Christians to shelter their kids from sex education). My experience was, if the emotion is there, the physical side will also be there.

Others may not have that same experience, and that's okay. I absolutely realize our experience doesn't mean everyone will agree or go that route, and I don't think they have to. Again, I could care less, and I think that Christians are far too obsessed with sexual sins. But, my point is, sex before marriage is absolutely not necessary as the initial post seems to be implying

[Bust Nak]

I was wondering at what age it might be okay to take someone for a test run?

More a matter of maturity and commitment than age.

Right now, at this very moment, I am helping my teen daughter and her baby. Yes, they had several test runs, I am sure. The problem with taking test runs, is that not everyone is prepared to take on the responsibilities of what might happen.

Noting what ttruscott had said, are you sure it was test runs and not joy rides? It wouldn't be fair to blame test runs for problems caused by joy rides. I might even suggest that the test run did its job, your daughter dodged a rubbish marriage thanks to the test run.

Sex is a beautiful gift in marriage. A couple of trial runs might be rocky at first, or great sex at first, might turn rocky later. There are no guarantees. What helps, what makes the sex great, is knowing that your partner, loves you regardless or not if your having an off week or an off month for that matter. When you love someone and you want to spend the rest of your life with them, you learn what pleases them....and that IS great sex!

I don't disagree, I would just say someone who has great sex right from the start has a easier road to travel than those who had a rocky test run.

[Peds nurse]

Right now, at this very moment, I am helping my teen daughter and her baby. Yes, they had several test runs, I am sure. The problem with taking test runs, is that not everyone is prepared to take on the responsibilities of what might happen.

Noting what ttruscott had said, are you sure it was test runs and not joy rides? It wouldn't be fair to blame test runs for problems caused by joy rides. I might even suggest that the test run did its job, your daughter dodged a rubbish marriage thanks to the test run.

Hello Bust Nuk!
I know there is a difference between just going out and having a good time, and a commitment. The problem that I have is that a lot of people are committed, until a baby comes along. My daughter and her boyfriend are together, but maturity doesn't always preclude people from wanting sexual relationships, even if they think they are committed. Just yesterday, I had a talk with my daughter and her boyfriend. They both said, "we are not going to have sex again because we don't want another baby." Well, that's fine while your sitting here talking to me, but I know all to well the hormones that override responsible thinking. So, then this seventeen year old boy said to me, "well, I'm going to see if I can get fixed." WHAT???

In providing foster care for the last 19 years, I have seen way to many parents that are committed (or so they think), until a baby or 2 or 8 comes along. I'm not saying it always ends this way, but I have seen it too many times.

Sex is a beautiful gift in marriage. A couple of trial runs might be rocky at first, or great sex at first, might turn rocky later. There are no guarantees. What helps, what makes the sex great, is knowing that your partner, loves you regardless or not if your having an off week or an off month for that matter. When you love someone and you want to spend the rest of your life with them, you learn what pleases them....and that IS great sex!

I don't disagree, I would just say someone who has great sex right from the start has a easier road to travel than those who had a rocky test run.

How do we know that? Due to my sexual abuse as a child, I really didn't like sex for the LONGEST time. It was something my husband and I had to work through, and although challenging, it was something that brought way more than eventual good sex, it brought intimacy at a whole new level.

[Bust Nak]

I know there is a difference between just going out and having a good time, and a commitment. The problem that I have is that a lot of people are committed, until a baby comes along. My daughter and her boyfriend are together, but maturity doesn't always preclude people from wanting sexual relationships, even if they think they are committed. Just yesterday, I had a talk with my daughter and her boyfriend. They both said, "we are not going to have sex again because we don't want another baby." Well, that's fine while your sitting here talking to me, but I know all to well the hormones that override responsible thinking. So, then this seventeen year old boy said to me, "well, I'm going to see if I can get fixed." WHAT???

What indeed. What did he mean by fixed?! Like how we fix cats?

In providing foster care for the last 19 years, I have seen way to many parents that are committed (or so they think), until a baby or 2 or 8 comes along. I'm not saying it always ends this way, but I have seen it too many times.

Surely this is a case for promoting family control than a case against pre-marital sex?

How do we know that? Due to my sexual abuse as a child, I really didn't like sex for the LONGEST time. It was something my husband and I had to work through, and although challenging, it was something that brought way more than eventual good sex, it brought intimacy at a whole new level.

Surely the fact that you had to work through the challenge, is enough to demonstrate that yes, those who have a great start will have a easier road to travel than those who has a rocky start?

[Peds nurse]

I know there is a difference between just going out and having a good time, and a commitment. The problem that I have is that a lot of people are committed, until a baby comes along. My daughter and her boyfriend are together, but maturity doesn't always preclude people from wanting sexual relationships, even if they think they are committed. Just yesterday, I had a talk with my daughter and her boyfriend. They both said, "we are not going to have sex again because we don't want another baby." Well, that's fine while your sitting here talking to me, but I know all to well the hormones that override responsible thinking. So, then this seventeen year old boy said to me, "well, I'm going to see if I can get fixed." WHAT???

What indeed. What did he mean by fixed?! Like how we fix cats?

That is exactly what I think he means...neutered

In providing foster care for the last 19 years, I have seen way to many parents that are committed (or so they think), until a baby or 2 or 8 comes along. I'm not saying it always ends this way, but I have seen it too many times.

Surely this is a case for promoting family control than a case against pre-marital sex?

I don't think so. Even for those who plan on getting married, pregnancy can change a person's mind to marry. Really, isn't all sex before marriage pre-marital?

How do we know that? Due to my sexual abuse as a child, I really didn't like sex for the LONGEST time. It was something my husband and I had to work through, and although challenging, it was something that brought way more than eventual good sex, it brought intimacy at a whole new level.

Surely the fact that you had to work through the challenge, is enough to demonstrate that yes, those who have a great start will have a easier road to travel than those who has a rocky start?

Maybe...or maybe not. Perhaps those who struggle and have to work through the issue end up having a stronger marriage in a lot of different areas as well.

Who knows? There isn't a cookie cutter mold for marriages, sex, or even people for that matter!

Have a great evening

[OnceConvinced]

The other issue I see with the whole pre-marital sex issue is the issue of living together. I completely believe (due to experience) that the only way to really get to know someone is to live with them. Because when you are in different houses, you naturally accept the way others do things, because it's their house so therefore, their rules. But when you move in together the dynamics change completely.

Even with same sex friends, friends you have had for years, you can suddenly find you have conflicts. In fact many say it's not wise to live with friends, no matter how good they are because you will find conflicts you never had when you were living apart and as a result those friendships can be destroyed. I too have experienced something similar with an old high school friend. We were like two peas in a pod, however found we had some conflicts when living in the same house together. Things which led to our friendship never being the same again.

When you move in with someone a lot of compromise is needed. That's when you really get to know someone. All their little irritating habits. Particularly if you are sharing a room or a bed.

I can safely say with my previous girlfriend that if I had married her before living with her, I would have been in huge trouble. Because when I moved in with her (everything was perfect and lovely before that) I was suddenly faced with a nightmare and a woman who felt that the house was her domain and she should make all the rules and I should have to fit in with the way she did things. If she didn't get her way she'd go mental. I also found issues with her kids that I don't believe I ever would if we'd stayed living in separate houses.

So how do those who think sex should be within the confines of marriage feel about living in the same house with the person they are in a relationship with? I would think that would be deemed just as bad as people will look at them and believe they are in a sexual relationship. Chances are living in the same house, sex would end up happening. It would be unavoidable no matter how staunch you are.

But yet how do you really get to know someone if you never live with them first?

[Wootah]

Out of interest can anyone relate their experiences in breaking up with someone after having sex with them and after not having sex with them?

Was there any differences?

[Strider324]

Out of interest can anyone relate their experiences in breaking up with someone after having sex with them and after not having sex with them?

Was there any differences?

In my experience there was no difference that had much to do with sex or no sex. Relationships end for any number of reasons. Some end because there was no sexual compatibility. Others end due to a lack of intellectual, spiritual, emotional, vocational, or ideological compatibility.

As I have commented before, seeing sexuality as having a 'different' priority when measuring all the pillars of a relationship cheapens all the pillars. Good sex doesn't make up for bad congruence in values. A high degree of spiritual connection does not make bad sex any more tolerable. A close intellectual compatibility doesn't make a poor emotional bond any more bearable. And on and on. Balance! Let's strive for and celebrate that!

But the fact still remains that we have allowed ancient patriarchal and misogynistic bigotry to color our relationship process. Women are still raised to be 'good little girls' who are demonized for being overtly sexual, while men continue to be treated like Gods if they demonstrate a sexual prowess demonstrated by boning lots of women. It's childish and clearly destructive, and contributes to a disconnect between how men and women think about each other.

Here's an example -

A recent anonymous study of around 1000 women asked what they thought Men would think of them if they had sex on a first date. A full 83% assumed that men would think 'worse' of them, and would find them unworthy of marriage (well, at least after the men had had enough sex with them...). But the men who were surveyed, a full 70%, stated they would absolutely not judge a woman so puritanically. (I note as an aside that another extensive survey of Online Dating statistics showed a full 33% of women stating they had engaged in 1st date sex at some time.)

Women tend to assume further that the reason they didn't get a 2nd date was because they 'put out' on the 1st date, but this is a case of mis-identifying the root cause. The 2nd date might not have happened regardless of whether she had sex or not - because of any weakness perceived in those other, just as critical pillars.

Again, I have an extensive background in human sexuality and sex education. That experience led me to raise my 2 daughters to strongly consider having a number of sexual partners (the test drive) just as they had multiple intellectual, spiritual, and emotional partners - prior to entering into a long term committed relationship. They are in their early 30's now and are in wonderfully fulfilling relationships that now include a granddaughter and grandson for the Old Gaffer to enjoy.