oldbadger wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:19 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:00 am
An evolved religion, for sure. I am pretty sure he added in a lot of extra material from outside - the stuff he shares with Matthew but not Mark and I think the unfashionable "Q" document theory may be right. So Some of the additions may be borrowed, rather than invented. The 'miraculous draft of fish is (so the evidence suggests to me) a 'Floating Story' that was not picked up from another gospel or even a religious document but a tale that was going the rounds. Matthew using it as a metaphor might even show what it was originally - a poetic simile. But Luke used it at the calling of disciples and Johns after the resurrection and the only thing that I don't understand is how 2,000 years of Bible experts have failed to notice that.
I imagine the 'woman taken in adultery' must have also been a 'floating story' since some put it in Luke, others in John, in the early Bibles at least. And I suspect now that the origins of the Son of Nain and raising of Lazarus might be a Floating Story, too - a bald claim "Jesus raised a young man from the dead" and let the others invent their narratives.
But I'd guess that the more famous parables are his invention. He was a pretty good storyteller.
Yes, and of course I think that some of Q was genuine.
As far as the amazing fish catch goes I have seen that happen after baiting the water before netting.
Maybe all those baskets of food waste were originally linked to those catches, but somehow split apart during oral tradion.
I doubt that any of Q was genuine - not from what i have reconstructed. Mainly it was a lot of teachings and sayings turned by Matthew into a sermon. But with some events,l ike the temptations, John's question and maybe the centurion's servant.
The point about the miracle fish is not whether one can catch a haul of fish after hours of no luck, but appearing in totally different places. In the calling of disciples in Luke but after the resurrection in John. Matthew may show how the thing originally looked; as a metaphor.
Matthew 13.47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away