Obama Backs Gay Marriage

[His Name Is John]

Probably old news to most here, but as no one else was discussing it, I thought I might bring it up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18014102

I think the 'gay marriage' issue is different to the 'is homosexuality moral' issue. In England most people don't really have a problem with homosexuals, and support civil-unions, however recently when our Prime Minister brought up trying to push through gay marriage, there was a huge backlash from all parties and many within the gay community.

This seems to be a risky move by Obama, and it will be interesting to see if a similar backlash happens in the USA as it did in England.

Discussion: Is this Obama pandering for votes? Is it going to do more harm to his presidential re-election campaign than good? Should gay marriage be legal? What about civil unions?

[thelisasmith58]

I think you are correct to assert that the gay marriage issue is indeed quite different than the is homosexulaity moral/acceptable from the Christian viewpoint issue. Homosexuality is denounced by God as stated through his word (the Bible). The issue of gay marriage, in my opinion, is an issue of civil equality, even from a religious standpoint. God's word said that the wages of ALL sin is death. I infer from that that sin is wrong, regardless if its homosexuality, murder, fornication, etc. Therefore, if we are going to keep gays from marrying, we should be keeping thieves, murders, liars, etc. from marrying too.

[Goat]

I think you are correct to assert that the gay marriage issue is indeed quite different than the is homosexulaity moral/acceptable from the Christian viewpoint issue. Homosexuality is denounced by God as stated through his word (the Bible). The issue of gay marriage, in my opinion, is an issue of civil equality, even from a religious standpoint. God's word said that the wages of ALL sin is death. I infer from that that sin is wrong, regardless if its homosexuality, murder, fornication, etc. Therefore, if we are going to keep gays from marrying, we should be keeping thieves, murders, liars, etc. from marrying too.

It seems to me, going by that logic, that would certainly stop the institution of marriage all together.

[connermt]

I think you are correct to assert that the gay marriage issue is indeed quite different than the is homosexulaity moral/acceptable from the Christian viewpoint issue. Homosexuality is denounced by God as stated through his word (the Bible). The issue of gay marriage, in my opinion, is an issue of civil equality, even from a religious standpoint. God's word said that the wages of ALL sin is death. I infer from that that sin is wrong, regardless if its homosexuality, murder, fornication, etc. Therefore, if we are going to keep gays from marrying, we should be keeping thieves, murders, liars, etc. from marrying too.

It seems to me, going by that logic, that would certainly stop the institution of marriage all together.

Some believers would find *cough* create *cough* a loop-hole based off of the bible for their benefit.

[NVIIIX1]

Probably old news to most here, but as no one else was discussing it, I thought I might bring it up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18014102

I think the 'gay marriage' issue is different to the 'is homosexuality moral' issue. In England most people don't really have a problem with homosexuals, and support civil-unions, however recently when our Prime Minister brought up trying to push through gay marriage, there was a huge backlash from all parties and many within the gay community.

This seems to be a risky move by Obama, and it will be interesting to see if a similar backlash happens in the USA as it did in England.

Discussion: Is this Obama pandering for votes? Is it going to do more harm to his presidential re-election campaign than good? Should gay marriage be legal? What about civil unions?

Though I am not Muslim, I agree with the Iranians and similar countries prohibition on homosexuality. Though Christendom and scripture also speak out against it, the church has lost it's ability to mete out punishment to homosexuals. Yes the US president is pandering for votes. He doesn't know what he believes.

[McCulloch]

Though I am not Muslim, I agree with the Iranians and similar countries prohibition on homosexuality.

Theocracy in my opinion is not a good idea. If their prohibition is solely based on their belief in a particular revelation from God, then it has no validity in a secular nation's laws.

Though Christendom and scripture also speak out against it, the church has lost it's ability to mete out punishment to homosexuals.

No it has not. The churches are still free to mete out whatever punishment to their own members as they see fit. However, in a free and democratic nation, anyone is free to leave or change their religion. The churches have no right to mete out punishment to non-members. The churches are also free to expel from membership those within their number who refuse to accept the punishments meted out.

Yes the US president is pandering for votes.

Well, d'oh! All political candidates pander for votes, that is what they do.

He doesn't know what he believes.

From what I have read and heard, President Obama is quite articulate and clear about what he believes. I really doubt that this man is ignorant of his own beliefs as NVIIIX1 characterizes.

[NVIIIX1]

"From what I have read and heard, President Obama is quite articulate and clear about what he believes. I really doubt that this man is ignorant of his own beliefs as NVIIIX1 characterizes."

The theme from the POTUS heard again and again goes something like "I was sincere in what I said at the time that I said it."

He's evolving by his own definition. Nailing down Obama's beliefs is like nailing down jello. Sincerity doesn't equal truth but he even then separates that sentiment into blocks of time. Every day is a new reality.

Pluralism will eventually collapse and we will have a strong-handed central figure running the show. The United States will be absorbed. It's becoming less relevant every day in the global system.

[NVIIIX1]

To the degree of separation we’ve seen in the moral codes offered by the Church and offered of the egalitarian west, it is nearly impossible for the Church to deal squarely with the problem of homosexuality. According to the bible---aside from conversion and repentance found in the Covenant of Grace-- homosexuality is a capital crime and scripture instructs parents to kill their children --- or at a minimum --- that society would kill the offending participants of homosexuality. It is a function of an uneasy relationship between “free� society and Christendom which has stymied Christ’s church from exacting control over those who commit those detestable acts. I find irony in that God has permitted the demonic religion of Islam to make inroads with Europe and the US over this issue.

[ThatGirlAgain]

To the degree of separation we’ve seen in the moral codes offered by the Church and offered of the egalitarian west, it is nearly impossible for the Church to deal squarely with the problem of homosexuality. According to the bible---aside from conversion and repentance found in the Covenant of Grace-- homosexuality is a capital crime and scripture instructs parents to kill their children --- or at a minimum --- that society would kill the offending participants of homosexuality. It is a function of an uneasy relationship between “free� society and Christendom which has stymied Christ’s church from exacting control over those who commit those detestable acts. I find irony in that God has permitted the demonic religion of Islam to make inroads with Europe and the US over this issue.

(Emphasis added)


Moderator Warning


Strongly uncivil and disrespectful language. Normally a newcomer would receive only a comment the first time. But this is unacceptable form anyone at any time.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[NVIIIX1]

And all the villagers cheered . . . .



So much for honest discussion of faith and politics

[McCulloch]

To the degree of separation we’ve seen in the moral codes offered by the Church and offered of the egalitarian west, it is nearly impossible for the Church to deal squarely with the problem of homosexuality.

The churches can deal with homosexuality within their membership however they like. They can, and many do, denounce it as a sin, preach repentance from it and prohibit the members of their churches from homosexual activity. Gays can be excommunicated and expelled from the church membership. What would you suggest? Stoning?

According to the bible---aside from conversion and repentance found in the Covenant of Grace-- homosexuality is a capital crime and scripture instructs parents to kill their children --- or at a minimum --- that society would kill the offending participants of homosexuality.

We don't live in theocracies. We no longer put people to death, or punish them for sins, on the sole authority of a religion. Secularism is the principle that given our society is composed of people with different religious faiths (and some with no religious faiths) that teach mutually incompatible doctrines, peace and harmony can only be achieved by keeping religion out of the affairs of state and keeping the state out of the affairs of the churches.

Since you are advocating reversing the more than two hundred year old pattern, that has been very successful and much imitated, which religion would you have imposed on the rest of us? How would you react if some religion different from yours became the rule of law where you live?

It is a function of an uneasy relationship between “free� society and Christendom which has stymied Christ’s church from exacting control over those who commit those detestable acts.

This statement is very revealing. Firstly, it shows that the ultimate motivation for your opposition to homosexuality is the yuck factor. You are not comfortable with gay sexuality so to you it should be deemed as detestable by the rest of society. I don't see you advocating for laws against other acts that are described as detestable in the scriptures. Should we kill heretics, apostates and idolaters? Should we strictly enforce the fourth commandment? Let's burn down the newspapers that print astrology columns!

Secondly, you are indicating that control over people's personal lives is, to you, a major function of what the churches should be doing. Even people who have chosen, for whatever reason, not to belong to your church. You preach against the freedoms and liberties which have made western society what it is: a place and time where you have the lowest probability ever in human history of being deliberately killed by another human. You deny literally centuries of progress in the area of human rights.

[font=Georgia]There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.
[/font]