Threat or Warning? Moral or Immoral?

[A Troubled Man]

I'm not threatening you, I'm giving you some good advice. Take it or leave it.

...God created both heaven and hell. Those who put their faith in Him will go to heaven, those who reject Him will go to hell. Yes, I believe God is moral in everything He does, so that would include in creating both hell and heaven.

Is the "advice" we get from believers threats or warnings regarding Heaven and Hell?

Is it moral or immoral for believers to reiterate their "advice" to others?

Would you conclude the "advice" is reason to reject any religion that offers it?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 28 by A Troubled Man]

The beatitudes explain quite well how we are evil according to God's standard. You and I might not murder but I know very well in my own life there are people I would rather not see and that is a type of spiritual murder, they are effectively dead to me. God's standard of things caused me to review my standard and attitude towards others.

Also you have a view of what worship is that is very different to mine. For you worship probably equals subservience ~ for me it equals praise. You see it as “bending the knee� once a week to God ~ I see it As 24x7 living with God and thanking him for it.

For me we are made to worship. Try today to notice how you rate everything, everyone and every experience. “that was a nice lunch�, “that was a good movie" and how easily we want to tell others. word of mouth marketing is the best kind. Praising good things is a very natural thing for us to do and certainly doesn't feel like a gun to the head. If you realise God then you will want to praise Him.

[A Troubled Man]

[Replying to post 1 by A Troubled Man]

It is obviously a warning rather than a threat from TG123 since TG123 doesn't claim to have the power to send to heaven or Hell, and TG123 is not the one that came up with this religious doctrine.

If TG123 were to going to warn me, it would be to stay as far away from the psychotic despot who threatens everyone with Hell if they don't worship Him.

[A Troubled Man]

I am superior to all atheists. I'm always right.

Wow!

Obviously, there is nothing anyone can say to you. Why are you even here?

[A Troubled Man]

[Replying to post 28 by A Troubled Man]

The beatitudes explain quite well how we are evil according to God's standard. You and I might not murder but I know very well in my own life there are people I would rather not see and that is a type of spiritual murder, they are effectively dead to me. God's standard of things caused me to review my standard and attitude towards others.

That has nothing to do with those people and everything to do with a superiority complex on your part. You are the one with a problem, not them. And, it would show your religion teaches you to reject others, which is certainly not anything Jesus would do.

Also you have a view of what worship is that is very different to mine. For you worship probably equals subservience ~ for me it equals praise. You see it as “bending the knee� once a week to God ~ I see it As 24x7 living with God and thanking him for it.

If you wish to worship a despot who threatens everyone with Hell if they don't worship Him, that is your prerogative. This is certainly not any reason to thank a despot.

For me we are made to worship. Try today to notice how you rate everything, everyone and every experience. “that was a nice lunch�, “that was a good movie" and how easily we want to tell others. word of mouth marketing is the best kind. Praising good things is a very natural thing for us to do and certainly doesn't feel like a gun to the head. If you realise God then you will want to praise Him.

No, we are not made to worship, that is religious indoctrination. We have brains in which to think and be free from the enslavement of worshiping myths and superstitions. Nice lunches and good movies don't demand we go around telling others to worship them with a gun to our heads.

[10CC]

But that is because I am superior to all atheists.

I'm guessing here, but is that because you are a theist?
Because pagans are also theists.
Muslims are also theists.
Anybody who believes in god/s is a theist.
All atheists disbelieve in your god/s.
As someone superior to all atheists, how fast do you run 100mt?
How many FA cups have you played in and won?
How many superbowls have you played in and won?
How many times have you scaled Mt Everest?
Or are you just having a lend of yourself?

[otseng]

I find it interesting that you are trying to call me dishonest. Where is your argument? You don't have one. But I've given one, and it is far superior to your insults and lies. But that is because I am superior to all atheists. That is because I have the wisdom of God on my side. You, being an atheist, don't have any of that good stuff.

This is why, my dear friend, context is so important. Had you bothered to read what I had said, and I mean everything that I said, you would know that I am right. I'm always right.

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[Sonofason]

I am superior to all atheists. I'm always right.

Wow!

Obviously, there is nothing anyone can say to you. Why are you even here?

I'm here for no other reason than to keep you honest.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 44 by A Troubled Man]

Hi ATM - I am citing the beatitudes - not my own view. I don't understand how your post connects to any thing I said on that point. The standard of good is set much higher by Jesus than we set it.

Unless you confront my earlier points about seperating good from bad then you are a worse despot that would force the good to live with the bad.

Of course you are rejecting me framing things in religious terms and so I think you are not engaging in the content.

I praise the police and the army too. Am I forced too? If I know you and trust you then even if you put a gun to my head what should I fear? Only the wicked need fear the police.

[A Troubled Man]

I'm here for no other reason than to keep you honest.

Sorry, but the fact that you've ignored the purported existence of all the other gods claimed by theists throughout history in your blue sky analogy does not show any honesty whatsoever.

[A Troubled Man]

Hi ATM - I am citing the beatitudes - not my own view.

I totally get that, but that doesn't excuse anyone from citing them or repeating them, especially if one embraces them as their own beliefs.

The standard of good is set much higher by Jesus than we set it.

I don't think Jesus set any standards. Many folks were already behaving that way and that behavior was simply being encapsulated in word.

Unless you confront my earlier points about seperating good from bad then you are a worse despot that would force the good to live with the bad.

Of course you are rejecting me framing things in religious terms and so I think you are not engaging in the content.

But, the content in religious terms does not appear to be valid in any way, quite the contrary. If it were valid, humans would have been long extinct and everything we now know about ourselves would be meaningless. No one is forcing anything or anyone how to live, other than religions. It is this forcing of behavioral patterns by religions that is actually causing the conflict, not the other way round.

I praise the police and the army too. Am I forced too?

No, you're not forced to praise, I certainly don't and most likely many others don't. Of course, we should respect them for the jobs they must do, but we don't need to praise them unless they go well beyond the call of their duty.

If I know you and trust you then even if you put a gun to my head what should I fear?

If I put a gun to your head and demanded you worship and praise me, how could you possibly trust me?

Only the wicked need fear the police.

That may very well be true, however we know very well that the "wicked" are a very, very tiny minority of folks who commit wicked acts, and they usually don't commit those acts every waking moment of their lives. In fact, many of those considered wicked have families and loved ones, too.

Most certainly then, we don't need a religious body telling the vast majority of us how to behave because the vast majority are not wicked, hence we don't need a god putting a gun to our heads to force us to behave a certain way, especially when that behavior MUST include worshiping and praising that god.