Non-believers to BURN IN HELL!

[JoeyKnothead]

Some'll say that if you reject Bible tales, you'll burn in Hell.

For debate:
Please offer some means to confirm the veracity of the claim.

If the claim can't be shown to be true and factual, is it uncivil, or perhaps more importantly morally right to present such an argument in order to encourage religious belief?

Why might a response of "Go to Hell" be inappropriate in the face of such a threat to one's well-being, while the threat itself may receive a pass?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 43:

I don't believe we can prove there is a hell, because I believe God operates in dimensions that he does not give us access to.

So, we can't know there's a Hell, but we can know God operates in dimensions "he does not give us access to". It would seem the one thing God doesn't give us access to is any way of confirming he even exists.

I do believe that we can know some things by experience that may well indicate a hell. We know there is such a thing as suffering of the mind and soul.

Where has Zetesis Apistia shown there's a soul to be a-sufferin'?

We know that dire circumstances can cause a degree of mental anguish that can cause a person to want to die rather than live. Why would this type of suffering cause a man to put a gun to his head? A man may be in very good health, possess great wealth, and have a loving family, and still take his own life because of his inability to endure the mental anguish that may well be the offspring of soul suffering. Can you explain why a man would do such a thing.

There's quite a bit of literature to indicate that chemical imbalances play a large roll in mental illness.

My friend if there is no hell where is all of this heat coming from?

The sun?

Personally I believe we are all standing on the outskirts of hell, and I think you and I feel the heat from those flames from time to time. IMO

So Hell is located in the sun?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 48:

...Does EduChris deny that Christians have said or implied that non-believers will burn in Hell?...

When you present a caricature of Christian theology, as it is bandied about in popular discourse among the uneducated of Christianity and non-Christianity alike, as though it had anything to do with the views of educated Christians, then you are presenting a strawman argument.

Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Does EduChris deny the above passage is in the Bible?

If you want to understand the views of educated Christians, there are plenty of good sources for information (and TV evangelists are not good sources, if what you're looking for is the views of educated, scholarly, credentialed Christians):
>links<

Are the only "educated Christians" those who hold EduChris' beliefs?

[EduChris]

...Does EduChris deny the above passage is in the Bible?...

The question is not, "Is it in the Bible?"; rather, the question is, "Given the full scope of Scripture, and given the history and trajectory of biblical study and interpretation, in combination with other sources such as reason, personal life experience, and the best consensus of other contemporary global Christian thinkers, what does this passage mean?"

...Are the only "educated Christians" those who hold EduChris' beliefs?

No, unfortunately I did not write the books I listed in the previous post. But they are used in many nationally and globally accredited Christian seminaries and graduate schools, so I am not some sort of oddball maverick within the global Christian Church.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 51:

Bible Gateway, KJV
Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

...Does EduChris deny the above passage is in the Bible?...

The question is not, "Is it in the Bible?"; rather, the question is, "Given the full scope of Scripture, and given the history and trajectory of biblical study and interpretation, in combination with other sources such as reason, personal life experience, and the best consensus of other contemporary global Christian thinkers, what does this passage mean?"

Looks to me like it means folks are ending up in Hell.

What does it mean to "educated Christians"?

...Are the only "educated Christians" those who hold EduChris' beliefs?

No, unfortunately I did not write the books I listed in the previous post. But they are used in many nationally and globally accredited Christian seminaries and graduate schools, so I am not some sort of oddball maverick within the global Christian Church.

When is believing some dude hopped up after being dead for three days no longer "oddball"?

[EduChris]

...Looks to me like it means folks are ending up in Hell...What does it mean to "educated Christians"?...

Among other things, it means that it may be possible to throw ones life away--to irrevocably turn oneself against love and other-directed concern, which are the very things that make life worth living.

As for the "unbelieving" part, that in no way implies that giving mere lip service to this or that proposition will suffice in turning the corner against death and toward life. It means that we must find something and someone to believe in, someone to pattern our life on, someone like God who gave up the privilege of deity for the sake of genuine solidarity with us. If the life and example and teaching of Jesus is not the example on which we base our lives, if the hope of the resurrection life is not our hope, then the chance of wasting our lives (both here and hereafter) is more real than it needs to be.

...When is believing some dude hopped up after being dead for three days no longer "oddball"?

It would be "oddball" to the extent that we had no good grounds for beliving that "necessary reality" cares for us.

[Zetesis Apistia]

From Post 43:

So, we can't know there's a Hell, but we can know God operates in dimensions "he does not give us access to". It would seem the one thing God doesn't give us access to is any way of confirming he even exists.

I just had a revelation. I'll bet that's why we are required to have faith. Well duh, thanks Joey

Where has Zetesis Apistia shown there's a soul to be a-sufferin'?

I'm going to have to invoke that faith thingy again.

There's quite a bit of literature to indicate that chemical imbalances play a large roll in mental illness.

And what causes the chemical imbalances?

The sun?

Not at night Einy.

So Hell is located in the sun?

Hey that's a thought. Wonder why NASA hasn't went on an expedition there. I mean they could go at night.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

So Hell is located in the sun?

Hey that's a thought. Wonder why NASA hasn't went on an expedition there. I mean they could go at night.

My first response here was that nobody could really be this ignorant and that this is a gag answer, meant to be funny and not meant to be taken seriously. And as I was in the process of chuckling to myself I suddenly remembered a Christian lady who once told me that clearly God must exist, because every year the rain falls, and yet the whole world is not covered in water. If it's possible for a person to be so ignorant of the actual working of the universe as to manage to suppose that God is required to regulate the amount of water on the earth then it is certainly possible for another person to genuinely suppose that it would be easier to go to the sun at night, when it would clearly be cooler.

[Wakefield]

...Does EduChris deny the above passage is in the Bible?...

The question is not, "Is it in the Bible?"; rather, the question is, "Given the full scope of Scripture, and given the history and trajectory of biblical study and interpretation, in combination with other sources such as reason, personal life experience, and the best consensus of other contemporary global Christian thinkers, what does this passage mean?"

Yes, agreed. What do you think it means? I think it implies that those 'thrown into the fire' will simply no longer exist -- the second death -- while true believers will attain a second life.

I don't think non-existence bothers too many atheists, since that is what they expect anyway.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 53:

Bible Gateway, KJV
Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
-----
Looks to me like it means folks are ending up in Hell.

What does it mean to "educated Christians"?

Among other things, it means that it may be possible to throw ones life away--to irrevocably turn oneself against love and other-directed concern, which are the very things that make life worth living.

Or is it that your spin on these words is an example of the mental contortions one must endure in order to maintain belief?

As for the "unbelieving" part, that in no way implies that giving mere lip service to this or that proposition will suffice in turning the corner against death and toward life. It means that we must find something and someone to believe in, someone to pattern our life on, someone like God who gave up the privilege of deity for the sake of genuine solidarity with us. If the life and example and teaching of Jesus is not the example on which we base our lives, if the hope of the resurrection life is not our hope, then the chance of wasting our lives (both here and hereafter) is more real than it needs to be.

But it doesn't say that, does it?

It says unbelievers, among others, are heading to a lake of fire and brimstone.

No doubt the "educated Christian" would, nay, must put their own spin on the "word of God".

...When is believing some dude hopped up after being dead for three days no longer "oddball"?

It would be "oddball" to the extent that we had no good grounds for beliving that "necessary reality" cares for us.

LOL

Still pushing that whole "necessary reality cares for us" deal, eh?

Here's a reality, you've done nothing to show the referenced passage means anything other that what is written, except perhaps to declare yourself "educated".

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 54:

So, we can't know there's a Hell, but we can know God operates in dimensions "he does not give us access to". It would seem the one thing God doesn't give us access to is any way of confirming he even exists.

I just had a revelation. I'll bet that's why we are required to have faith. Well duh, thanks Joey

When you can actually support your contentions with something other'n opinion, we'd sure 'preciate it.

Where has Zetesis Apistia shown there's a soul to be a-sufferin'?

I'm going to have to invoke that faith thingy again.

So we see, Zetesis Apistia is incapable of showing he speaks truth regarding there being "souls", much less that they'd be suffering.

There's quite a bit of literature to indicate that chemical imbalances play a large roll in mental illness.

And what causes the chemical imbalances?

I don't know.

Do you?

The sun?

Not at night Einy.

Then why don't you tell us where this heat comes from, Einy.

So Hell is located in the sun?

Hey that's a thought. Wonder why NASA hasn't went on an expedition there. I mean they could go at night.

I can only conclude you are joking.