Noah’s Ark seems like a myth

[dbasra99]

Hello. I am new here. Trying to find a place to openly discuss my faith issues without being attacked.

I had a total faith deconstruction that led me to severe depression. My faith has been somewhat been rebuilt but I still struggle with many issues.

For example, for many years I have not been able to believe the story of Noah. This is both from science and theology standpoints.

I have listened to many models by numerous apologists but no one brings me closure on this.

I see nothing more than a story of a great natural catastrophe that is blamed on God and is expressed in various ancient religions. However the references in the New Testament trouble me.

I am interested in what others think.

Thanks.

[Miles]

It's true that which kind of wood the writer had in mind is not sure, but frankly what kind of wood the Ark was supposed to have been made of is one of the lesser of the problems about the Ark - story.

Oh, by f-a-r one of the lesser problems. In fact, no problem at all. It's just that it's one of the many trivial and inconsequential details various Bible compilers found worth mentioning, yet couldn't agree on. Once more pointing up the absurdity of the claim that the Bible is inerrant and infallible, and holding to scripture that asserts all scripture was given by god in which every word proves true. .. It amuses me.


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[TRANSPONDER]

It's true that which kind of wood the writer had in mind is not sure, but frankly what kind of wood the Ark was supposed to have been made of is one of the lesser of the problems about the Ark - story.

Oh, by f-a-r one of the lesser problems. In fact, no problem at all. It's just that it's one of the many trivial and inconsequential details various Bible compilers found worth mentioning, yet couldn't agree on. Once more pointing up the absurdity of the claim that the Bible is inerrant and infallible, and holding to scripture that asserts all scripture was given by god in which every word proves true. .. It amuses me.


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True. It is part, I suppose, of the arguments that God cannot keep his own book in order and those who apparently believe that God is revealing the truth of the the Bible to them (*Atheists and skeptics do not understand/misinterpret the Bible") cannot agree on what the Bible actually means or says.

[Tcg]

It's true that which kind of wood the writer had in mind is not sure, but frankly what kind of wood the Ark was supposed to have been made of is one of the lesser of the problems about the Ark - story.

You're right of course but focus on the wood possibilities serves the function of allowing flood believers to ignore the true issues with the story. That Noah was 500 years old when construction began is certainly one aspect of the story that must be brushed over. Think about it too much and the absurdity of the story comes into clear focus.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

It's true that which kind of wood the writer had in mind is not sure, but frankly what kind of wood the Ark was supposed to have been made of is one of the lesser of the problems about the Ark - story.

You're right of course but focus on the wood possibilities serves the function of allowing flood believers to ignore the true issues with the story. That Noah was 500 years old when construction began is certainly one aspect of the story that must be brushed over. Think about it too much and the absurdity of the story comes into clear focus.


Tcg

Don't worry. We old debunkers are too canny to allow ourselves to be distracted from the Big debunks by small details like what was meant by 'pitch', clean animals or 'fountains of the deep'. I'm always charmed by this unwriitten rule of Arkeology - it has to work in a practical way. No magic wand. God can tweak a few things to make the impossible possible. He can put the animals into hibernation to make life easier, but he cannot maggick extra animals after they disembark to get over the genetic bottleneck as that would open the can of worms. He cannot make the water appear from nowhere and vanish afterwards - it has to come from somewhere and go somewhere, because if God does too many miracles, you don't actually need the Flood. The argument about what kind of water fish can survive in is always a nice talking point. And trying to have the bugs survive on something called 'vegetation mats' that float requires that the flood be pretty calm. When tectonic movement throws up mountains as Noah watches, ought to have the vegetable mats swamped, never mind what it would do to the ark.

[1213]

...'mountains' of evidence...

You seem to have ridiculous definition for the word "evidence".

...There are hundreds of resources one could avail oneself of IF actual knowledge and understanding were the goal.

Mountains form where two continental plates collide. Since both plates have a similar thickness and weight, neither one will sink under the other. Instead, they crumple and fold until the rocks are forced up to form a mountain range. As the plates continue to collide, mountains will get taller and taller.

...

If you would stand on water bed with smaller kid than you, who would sunk further on the bed, you or the kid? Why do you think so and why do you think it goes the opposite with mountains?

[1213]

Sorry, I misstyped. It should have been 'movement'.

Ok, sorry, I should have understood that. In that case, what is the force that causes the movement, and how could it make heavier land mass rise, instead of the lighter?

...dependent the story is on the Babyl;onian myth...

Babylonian story looks like poor copy of the Bible story.

A flood cannot explain the presence of marine shells on mountains for the following reasons:
Floods erode mountains and deposit their sediments in valleys.

If that would be how it happens, it would be too slow, all fossil candidates would have vanished before they could turn into fossils.

[1213]

Bible tells 8 survived and everyone on top of dry land died. Those 8 and their offspring could have told the story and in time it could have been distorted into all different stories.

Would that not also apply to their accounts/memories of everything that happened on the earth before the flood occurred? How can we rely on anything the Bible has to say about events pre-flood?

I trust to the Bible, because I see it to be correct in many things. But still, it remains a matter of belief.

[Diogenes]

I trust to the Bible, because I see it to be correct in many things. But still, it remains a matter of belief.

This is an excellent summation of your position and 'rationale.' You "trust and believe," thus it is not about rational, objective evidence. The Bible, particularly if you consider the myths of Genesis to be factual accounts, is wrong about so very much. The Bible clearly describes a flat, immovable Earth, the center of the universe with no explanation for the dinosaurs and other extinct species which comprise 99% of all life that has lived on this planet.
Archeology simply does not support much of the 'history' recorded in the Old Testament, despite the amateurish, shoddy, and disingenuous claims by 'creation myth/Genesis inspired blogs of silliness like "Answers in Genesis."

You've demonstrated over and over you have no faith (or perhaps knowledge) in the evidence provided by genuine geology, astrophysics, or indeed all the physical sciences. Instead you suggest your beliefs are the sole basis for your stance. There is no point in attempting a rational, logical discussion with anyone who claims his own inner beliefs provide the only guide for reality.

[TRANSPONDER]

Sorry, I misstyped. It should have been 'movement'.

Ok, sorry, I should have understood that. In that case, what is the force that causes the movement, and how could it make heavier land mass rise, instead of the lighter?

No prob, I should have corrected that. If you had watched the video you would have seen that tectonic plates effectively float on a molten core This results in continents parting (rifts) crumpling up (mountain ranges) and volcanoes in known strings along impacting continental plates.

...dependent the story is on the Babyl;onian myth...

Babylonian story looks like poor copy of the Bible story.

Rather a more primitive and thus earlier version which went through several revisions in different empires and was copied by many cultures. Since israel isn't known until after Sumer, Akkad and Babylon, it is more likely the Bible writers copied the Babylonian tale and updated it rather than they all copied the Biblical one and dumbed it down.

A flood cannot explain the presence of marine shells on mountains for the following reasons:
Floods erode mountains and deposit their sediments in valleys.

If that would be how it happens, it would be too slow, all fossil candidates would have vanished before they could turn into fossils.

On the contrary. Since dinosaurs (etc.) are frequently of bones, it means they were left in the open until the organic material was gone and just bones left and then it might be covered. Sudden covering of the body fossilising organic material is far more rare, (The hadrosaur 'mummy') but it does happen, explaining why part predated critters can still get fossilised.

[Miles]

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...................................................................... If it ain't a myth it's gotta be

..................................................................... GROSS INCOMPETENCE


Considering the godawful powers of Jehovah; being able to create heaven and the earth, the firmament, the Sun and stars, the plants and animals, and all mankind with the snap of his fingers (actually, he simply spoke them into being), I find it curious that he couldn't rid the world of all the evil people just as easily. Instead, he has Noah and family purge the Earth of such people, and everything else, by going through the laborious processes and events outlined in the flood story. .... All of which never worked out anyway.





................................................................. Nice going god. . . . Not


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