Interpreting the scripture

[Peds nurse]

Hello people!!

I have talked with a couple of non believers who are somewhat disturbed when Christians claim to interpret or have more insight to scripture than they do. I am wondering why this is an issue? If we read multiple books on electric conductivity of the brain, and how various diseases interfere with that process, would we claim to know as much as a neurologist?

I don't think that Christians are claiming that nonbelievers are incompetent in any way, or that they lack the skills to interpret scripture, rather I believe it is because we as Christians, have God living in us (His Spirit), giving us discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in our life (New Testament).

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture? Why do some find this claim offensive?

HAPPY 4TH of JULY!!!

[arian]

From Post 44:

...
Sin, even if it's the smallest deviation from Gods will (law) is a sin, and we all have sinned
...

Until you can show this God gives him the first tinker's dang about the doings of humans, this is but one more libel from theists.

I've seen on Fox News, CNN, NBC, CBS, read and seen pictures on the internet like Wikipedia, Google, and YouTube this gentleman named Barak Hussein Obama and that he is the 44th US President who is supposedly our leader.

Question: do you believe this President gives him the first tinker's dang about the doings of humans, let alone non-Muslim Americans he supposedly is the leader of?

Do you believe he even exists? That he is not just some construct of Jesuit/Mason/Nazi/Zionist imagination? I myself have never seen this man, have you?
Do you know anyone trustworthy enough who has seen him, that he really is our 44th President?

Why I ask is because I'm a skeptic, and "I want evidence".
I have also read that there are these so called scientists who have taken a fossilized jaw bone of a pig they have found and constructed an entire half ape half man out of it, and hundreds of articles how this ape-man lived, what he ate, including when and how he died. Oh yea, pictures and all included which are far better then of this guy George Washington they claim was real, also a US president (yeah right)

I reject the libelous slanderer who accuses me of being a "sinner", when their accusations are as empty as their claim to know the mind of a god they can't even show exists.

You a sinner? That's only for those that believe in such a thing as truth, lies, good and evil. If you believe in such a thing to be even possible, then you, .. just as we all are a sinner. But how will anyone prove to you there is such a thing as truth, lies, good and evil? Who makes up these things anyways, .. I mean can anyone define something that is good for everyone? Or bad for everyone? Or what is truth and what is lies? .. right?
Truth only makes sense if we can prove at least ONE truth that every person on earth would agree with, then we could say "truth exists", can you or anyone here do that?

Your and ttruscott's posts should be added to that religious harm thread - where we see that even after the passage of some two thousand years, some thiests still can't tell their insults from Shinola.

What one would consider an insult, could be another's warning to you of grave danger. Or ones show of affection, like a hug from me to you could be considered an insult too. So can you define 'insult', or love, or evil, or hate, or marriage between a man and woman and two dogs of the same sex getting married in Japan? (I seen it happen, brides maids, the costumes, the priest, the throwing of rice (or was it Skittles?) and all!

I want undeniable truth with evidence, not some delusional constructs of man like books, videos, documents, News Paper adds and all that stuff anyone could construct and say whatever they want in it!

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 58 by arian]

JoeyK wrote:
Your and ttruscott's posts should be added to that religious harm thread - where we see that even after the passage of some two thousand years, some thiests still can't tell their insults from Shinola.

What one would consider an insult, could be another's warning to you of grave danger. Or ones show of affection, like a hug from me to you could be considered an insult too. So can you define 'insult', or love, or evil, or hate, or marriage between a man and woman and two dogs of the same sex getting married in Japan? (I seen it happen, brides maids, the costumes, the priest, the throwing of rice (or was it Skittles?) and all!

Should the person accused of being 'insulting' by another person consider the insulted person's point of view at all? Is it reasonable to do so?

If you are speaking from promptings of the Holy Spirit, or Christ, does this give whatever you say 'immunity' from criticism, or accusations of being 'insulting'? Is it reasonable to disregard complaints against you for being offensive or insulting when you are moved to speak from your theological convictions?

Is the 'insulted' person entitled to speak out against your (the generic) Holy Spirit guided words, or should they humbly accept that you are speaking God's truth?

Were you hugging Haven in that one thread in the Politics and Religion section?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 58:

Until you can show this God gives him the first tinker's dang about the doings of humans, this is but one more libel from theists.

...
Question: do you believe this President gives him the first tinker's dang about the doings of humans, let alone non-Muslim Americans he supposedly is the leader of?

I never said the man even exists.

Do you believe he even exists? That he is not just some construct of Jesuit/Mason/Nazi/Zionist imagination? I myself have never seen this man, have you?
Do you know anyone trustworthy enough who has seen him, that he really is our 44th President?

I make no claims regarding the existence of Mr. Obama. Nor have I.

It was you who declared me a "sinner" in the eyes of your proposed god.

I point out your inability to show this god exists to even consider something a "sin", and how it is, your blanket accusation is a libel, until it can be shown to be true and factual.

Why I ask is because I'm a skeptic, and "I want evidence".
...

As I've made no claim regarding the existence of Mr. Obama, I'm under no obligation to support such a claim. Apply response to the remainder of the snipped paragraph.

I reject the libelous slanderer who accuses me of being a "sinner", when their accusations are as empty as their claim to know the mind of a god they can't even show exists.

You a sinner? That's only for those that believe in such a thing as truth, lies, good and evil. If you believe in such a thing to be even possible, then you, .. just as we all are a sinner.

arian, I like ya. I find you and your notions a fascinating study. But I ain't gonna entertain your repeated libels.


I seek to remain a productive, civil member of this site. I don't want to ruin it responding in the manner I deem needs it.


Have a great day.

[tam]

From Post 53:

Making the statement that some who call themselves Christian are not... is simply following what Christ has also taught.

Which gets us right back to how can we tell if this collection of stories and such is an accurate reflection of what he taught. We're expected to rely on these tales as evidence these tales are accurate, and how it is, this "spirit" is s'posed to guide us, only it is, folks've been claiming to have such a "spirit", and they still disagree.

I propose that instead of attempting to show who is and who ain't a Christian, you'd do better to show these various religious assertions are an accurate reflection of reality.


Show us this "spirit" guides folks to some superior understanding of biblical texts. Extra bonus points if ya can do it without referencing the very book making the claims.

I would say truthful, over saying superior. Regardless, I can tell you how He has done so for me without referencing the text but that would be personal testimony and I am not sure if that is what you mean by 'show' you.

As for your proposal above, I'm not going around doing that to begin with and hopefully I explained that well enough in my response to Zzyzx and Danmark. You and I probably posted at the same time.


Peace to you JoeyKnothead,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[enviousintheeverafter]

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

Only to the extent that Christians are obviously going to be, on average, more familiar with their own sacred texts than non-Christians. But the same will be true for every other religion- Muslims would have an inherent advantage over Christians in interpreting the Koran for the same reason; many Christians have never read the Koran at all. But this isn't true across the board, and assuming an equal familiarity with the texts, there is no inherent advantage to believing the texts (i.e. as religious canon), indeed potentially the opposite since commitment to traditions or established doctrines may well create a conflict of interests between defending traditional doctrines/interpretations and sticking to sound/accepted methodology when the two clash (as they often do).

[Danmark]

Only to the extent that Christians are obviously going to be, on average, more familiar with their own sacred texts than non-Christians.
....

One would certainly think so, but,

The Pew Forum on Religious Religion and Public Life released a survey on religious knowledge today. Atheists and Agnostics scored higher on it than anyone else, closely followed by Jews and Mormons, all Christians, Protestants and Catholics, were far behind.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -religious

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s- ... ge-survey/

One of the theories that may explain this:
American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.
"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

As examples the study found a startling lack of basic knowledge by religious practitioners:

More than four-in-ten Catholics in the United States (45%) do not know that their church teaches that the bread and wine used in Communion do not merely symbolize but actually become the body and blood of Christ. About half of Protestants (53%) cannot correctly identify Martin Luther as the person whose writings and actions inspired the Protestant Reformation, which made their religion a separate branch of Christianity. Roughly four-in-ten Jews (43%) do not recognize that Maimonides, one of the most venerated rabbis in history, was Jewish.

[enviousintheeverafter]

Only to the extent that Christians are obviously going to be, on average, more familiar with their own sacred texts than non-Christians.
....

One would certainly think so, but,

The Pew Forum on Religious Religion and Public Life released a survey on religious knowledge today. Atheists and Agnostics scored higher on it than anyone else, closely followed by Jews and Mormons, all Christians, Protestants and Catholics, were far behind.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... -religious

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s- ... ge-survey/

One of the theories that may explain this:
American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.
"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."

As examples the study found a startling lack of basic knowledge by religious practitioners:

More than four-in-ten Catholics in the United States (45%) do not know that their church teaches that the bread and wine used in Communion do not merely symbolize but actually become the body and blood of Christ. About half of Protestants (53%) cannot correctly identify Martin Luther as the person whose writings and actions inspired the Protestant Reformation, which made their religion a separate branch of Christianity. Roughly four-in-ten Jews (43%) do not recognize that Maimonides, one of the most venerated rabbis in history, was Jewish.

I feel like I ought to be more surprised than I am at this...

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 47 by JoeyKnothead]

I'm not sure one can feel slandered by words that have no meaning to them?

I remember when my mum ran day care and one kid came up to her crying and said that the other kid called him a 'shomabomba'. We still call each other a 'shomabomba' when we want to insult each other.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 47 by JoeyKnothead]

I'm not sure one can feel slandered by words that have no meaning to them?

I remember when my mum ran day care and one kid came up to her crying and said that the other kid called him a 'shomabomba'. We still call each other a 'shomabomba' when we want to insult each other.

My wife and I have a code phrase we use sometimes. It's the punchline of a joke and stands for something much less innocent:

"Please pass the Wheaties."

[Blastcat]

In response to the OP:

Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture? Why do some find this claim offensive?

Technically, no... because interpretation does not belong to men, so it should not BE a Christian interpreting scripture.

I wonder who you think it IS that does the interpreting?