Why live?

[alive]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

[AquinasD]

Hypotheticals can be arranged to lead one to a given conclusion, and I will not debate based on, "If this condition is present, then you must accept this other condition over yonder".

A conditional of the form "If p then q" can be denied, you know. It's just a statement of relations which holds between propositions, as are all other logical forms including "p and q" or "p or q." "If p then q" is all a conditional is. See a conditional be used in this very basic logical argument;

1) if p then q
2) p
3) therefore q

You are quite free to deny that p and q hold in such a relationship as stated (or you could also try to deny p in that argument), although it would be nice for you to back up your claims besides constantly repeating something as if it maintains the logical form.

All refers to all. Do you deny this?

Does the set of "all that could be done" include logical impossibilities? If you think they are, what are they that they could be included?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 60:

A conditional of the form "If p then q" can be denied, you know. It's just a statement of relations which holds between propositions, as are all other logical forms including "p and q" or "p or q." "If p then q" is all a conditional is. See a conditional be used in this very basic logical argument;

1) if p then q
2) p
3) therefore q

Yep.

"If God can do 'p', but he can't do q, then them folks that think he's all 'omnipotent' and all have not only been loosed from their rockers, they've been slung clean clear of the porch."

You are quite free to deny that p and q hold in such a relationship as stated (or you could also try to deny p in that argument), although it would be nice for you to back up your claims besides constantly repeating something as if it maintains the logical form.

Ya know what, when you go to reporting posts you think I've failed to support, you might have an argument. Until you actually do though, I'll not sit silent as you try to impugn my integrity or ability to reason.

It's my firm conviction that I've supported my contentions, and it's my firm conviction that you fail to understand that I've sat there and did it. I'll not long suffer your proclamations to the contrary without I mention the possibility that you may well have a cranio-rectal inversion of such severity that you can't imagine the possibility of your being wrong, even as ya smell the stench of it.

Do you wanna actually debate here, or do you prefer we continually sling excrement at one another until one of us can't poop no more?

All refers to all. Do you deny this?

Does the set of "all that could be done" include logical impossibilities? If you think they are, what are they that they could be included?

English, mother-father, do you speak it?

(clarificational edit)

[1213]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven..

But have you not read the Bible? People were in paradise in the beginning. Then they choose to abandon God and because of that we experience this life. But he still want that people have opportunity to come back and therefore he sent Jesus to show the way back.

God offers eternal life for righteous. So if we want to come back to God, we have to be or become righteous. Basically that is what Jesus taught. If we choose not listen to Jesus and if we want still unrighteousness, then we are not suitable to go to place that is kingdom of righteousness.

Other option could have been that you were directly created to that paradise. Then you could have had opportunity to abandon it. But it is really almost the same thing. If you choose unrighteousness in this life you would do it also in that life. The difference is, if also all bad people could be first in paradise, they would probably destroy it. Therefore it is better that choosing happens in this life which can’t do harm to soul. And also here we can safely experience what life without God means.

Obviously God knows how people will choose, but he wants to give this opportunity also for those who love more darkness than light, because he loves all people.

[alive]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven..

But have you not read the Bible? People were in paradise in the beginning. Then they choose to abandon God and because of that we experience this life. But he still want that people have opportunity to come back and therefore he sent Jesus to show the way back.

God offers eternal life for righteous. So if we want to come back to God, we have to be or become righteous. Basically that is what Jesus taught. If we choose not listen to Jesus and if we want still unrighteousness, then we are not suitable to go to place that is kingdom of righteousness.

Other option could have been that you were directly created to that paradise. Then you could have had opportunity to abandon it. But it is really almost the same thing. If you choose unrighteousness in this life you would do it also in that life. The difference is, if also all bad people could be first in paradise, they would probably destroy it. Therefore it is better that choosing happens in this life which can’t do harm to soul. And also here we can safely experience what life without God means.

Obviously God knows how people will choose, but he wants to give this opportunity also for those who love more darkness than light, because he loves all people.

I remember some parts where before we are born there are some talks of being a sprit or something like that but I dont remember where we (humans) came from heaven and we are just working are way back...

Throw some verses at me...I know you guys love to do that..

[Goat]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven..

But have you not read the Bible? People were in paradise in the beginning. Then they choose to abandon God and because of that we experience this life. But he still want that people have opportunity to come back and therefore he sent Jesus to show the way back.

Then why set up the path for failure to begin with. An omniscient God would have KNOWN a creation would fail a test, why have the test to begin with? Why the rigamarole? That interpretation of Genesis does not make sense.

[Bust Nak]

This doesn't address my claims here. If you want to debate the logicality of the Trinity, there's another thread for that which is currently alive, feel free to bring your arguments there.

Too bad for them. I'd like to see them draw a square circle. I'd pay them a million dollars.

It's not really about the logicality of the trinity specifically, it to make a point about what is illogical to someone is merely a-logical or even perfectly logical to another.

Yes, you see, the difference is that I'm correct. Or maybe I'm not. But you could at least have the decent civility to argue with my understanding as its presented, rather than bringing up someone else's misunderstanding as if it must be mine.

No, I am not bring up someone else's understanding as if it is yours. I am saying "God has the power to make all things" doesn't differentiate your version of omnipotent and God is above logic version. Where as "God has the power to make all logically consistent things" does differentiate the two.

Within the context, A is quite clearly what I meant. Though obviously this is still logically consistent with B.

Is A what you meant? Why did you say "to x nothing is to not-x?" That's B.

Can not and cannot are two different things. I fail to see the relevance of this "can not" that you bring up. Are you just conceding to my claim about how logical impossibilities are not included in the set of all things?

Can not and cannot are two spellings of the same thing, that's why I use the word "able" instead to make things clear. And no, I am saying B & omnipotent is not a logical impossibility.

[1213]

I remember some parts where before we are born there are some talks of being a sprit or something like that but I dont remember where we (humans) came from heaven and we are just working are way back...

Throw some verses at me...I know you guys love to do that..

According to Genesis 1 and 2, paradise was place where was no harm and people where there with God. So it is like heaven. And according to Bible it is possible in some cases to come back to place that is like the paradise. I think it is the same place, because conditions are so similar.

[1213]

Then why set up the path for failure to begin with. An omniscient God would have KNOWN a creation would fail a test, why have the test to begin with? Why the rigamarole? That interpretation of Genesis does not make sense.

Why not? I think God’s answer to your question would be, because it is good

I don’t think it was a test. Did I say it was test? It seems to me that God wanted us to have opportunity to abandon him. And after that he wanted us to have opportunity to come back. For leaving there were one way and for coming back there is one way.

For those who choose impiety, it doesn’t really matter are they first here, because they would end similar situation anyway, probably this is better, because they can experience their own evil as they want. And for those who will get back to God, this life is almost the same, because kingdom of God can be already with them.

Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come. He answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with a visible display. People won't say, ‘Look! Here it is!’ or “There it is!’ For the kingdom of God is among you.�
Luke 17:20-21

[otseng]

From Post 60:

A conditional of the form "If p then q" can be denied, you know. It's just a statement of relations which holds between propositions, as are all other logical forms including "p and q" or "p or q." "If p then q" is all a conditional is. See a conditional be used in this very basic logical argument;

1) if p then q
2) p
3) therefore q

Yep.

"If God can do 'p', but he can't do q, then them folks that think he's all 'omnipotent' and all have not only been loosed from their rockers, they've been slung clean clear of the porch."

You are quite free to deny that p and q hold in such a relationship as stated (or you could also try to deny p in that argument), although it would be nice for you to back up your claims besides constantly repeating something as if it maintains the logical form.

Ya know what, when you go to reporting posts you think I've failed to support, you might have an argument. Until you actually do though, I'll not sit silent as you try to impugn my integrity or ability to reason.

It's my firm conviction that I've supported my contentions, and it's my firm conviction that you fail to understand that I've sat there and did it. I'll not long suffer your proclamations to the contrary without I mention the possibility that you may well have a cranio-rectal inversion of such severity that you can't imagine the possibility of your being wrong, even as ya smell the stench of it.

Do you wanna actually debate here, or do you prefer we continually sling excrement at one another until one of us can't poop no more?

Moderator Comment

I fail to see what you are both quibbling about. And I fail to see how any of it relates to the OP.

But, I would ask to not engage in slinging of anything.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[alive]

I remember some parts where before we are born there are some talks of being a sprit or something like that but I dont remember where we (humans) came from heaven and we are just working are way back...

Throw some verses at me...I know you guys love to do that..

According to Genesis 1 and 2, paradise was place where was no harm and people where there with God. So it is like heaven. And according to Bible it is possible in some cases to come back to place that is like the paradise. I think it is the same place, because conditions are so similar.

Hmmmm... Are you trying to compare Eden to Heaven? Need some real verses...Don't see what your seeing...