"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #651

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1213 wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:30 am I don't think that is in contradiction with my saying. People were allowed to have slaves for life, but not without any conditions.
Yes, it is. The only conditions given was they were not to be killed right away, nor could their eyes/teeth be knocked out. The Bible gives no instruction for the slave's choice to leave, unless they were Israelites specifically.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #652

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1213 wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:31 am
POI wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:52 am ...And as I've mentioned repeatedly, the rules are not equal or the same for all.
Sorry, you are not the authority in this case. If Bible doesn't say law is not equal to all, the law is equal to all.
Sorry, you are absolutely incorrect. The law is not equal for all. The terms and conductions are better if you are an Israelite male. (i.e.):

(Ex. 21:2-3) If you are a volunteer Israelite, you can leave at year 7. Provided you are not tricked, as in verse (Exodus 21:4-6). So be sure to know exactly what you are signing. :approve:
(Ex. 21:4) If you are slave offspring of a provided wife, you are not allowed to leave. You are the master's slave.
(Ex. 21:7) If you are a daughter, and the father wants to sell the daughter off, the daughter has no say. The daughter becomes the master's slave for life.
(Lev. 25:44-46) If you are not an Israelite, you can be held as property for life without the slave's consent.

Hence, your argument fails. Many slaves have no say in the matter.
Last edited by POI on Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #653

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1213 wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:31 am
POI wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:43 am Are you glad chattel slavery is now abolished in most areas, or not? Or, do you instead wish chattel slavery was still allowed? Because the 'command' is that it should be allowed.
I think mandatory taxation makes people slaves and therefore slavery is not abolished. I think it would not be a problem if it is allowed, if people obey also every other rule in the Bible. The problem comes when people ignore all the rules that prevents them oppressing others.
We are doing complete circles here. The Torah mentions 1) loving your god and 2) loving your neighbor while ALSO still condoning lifetime chattel slavery as well. Here, the Bible is inconsistent. Just like the Christian will argue that condoning abortion is inconsistent with the claim that killing is wrong. Rather than to condemn abortion, Planned Parenthood condones abortion. This is why Christians protest Planned Parenthood clinics.

The Bible condones lifetime chattel slavery rather than to abolish it. It is not consistent. You cannot logically condone lifetime chattel slavery, against one's will, while also pushing forth the command 'love your neighbor.' Christians know this, which is why we see all sorts of apologetic excuses.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #654

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POI wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:16 pm ....Many slaves have no say in the matter.
Maybe so, but God has something to say, and it is, love your neighbor as yourself. If you do so, you don't keep anyone as your slave against the slaves will.
POI wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:30 pm The Torah mentions 1) loving your god and 2) loving your neighbor while ALSO still condoning lifetime chattel slavery as well. Here, the Bible is inconsistent.... ....You cannot logically condone lifetime chattel slavery, against one's will, while also pushing forth the command 'love your neighbor.' ...
That is why slavery is and was possible only if the person was voluntarily doing so. That the people were allowed to have slaves for life doesn't mean against the will of the people.
POI wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:06 pm ...The Bible gives no instruction for the slave's choice to leave, unless they were Israelites specifically.
And everyone living by the rules would be and Israelite? Or, how would you define who is really an Israelite?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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1213 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:26 am Maybe so....
Then your prior argument is kaput. The Bible states you can make certain individuals slaves against their will.
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:26 am but God has something to say, and it is, love your neighbor as yourself. If you do so, you don't keep anyone as your slave against the slaves will.
I already spoke about this, ad nauseam. I even mentioned it the in the OP. I've also explained, repeatedly, that the rules are not the same for all. See my last response.
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:26 am That is why slavery is and was possible only if the person was voluntarily doing so. That the people were allowed to have slaves for life doesn't mean against the will of the people.
False. See my last response.
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:26 am And everyone living by the rules would be and Israelite? Or, how would you define who is really an Israelite?
Your question is irrelevant. Further, your response is also a self-defeater. You must admit the law is not the same for all. The Bible states you can make certain folks slaves for life. Who cares if they are considered 'Israelites' or not. Why would God allow any of his human creation to be made chattel slaves for life or be bred as a chattel slave for life?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #656

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 4:39 am The Bible states you can make certain individuals slaves against their will.
The problem with that it, there is no Biblical text that say you can do it against their will.
POI wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 4:39 am
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:26 am And everyone living by the rules would be and Israelite? Or, how would you define who is really an Israelite?
Your question is irrelevant.
I think it is very important, when you say that some rule is only for Israelite. If you can't define who are Israelite, your argument becomes irrelevant.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #657

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1213 wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 12:45 am
POI wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 4:39 am The Bible states you can make certain individuals slaves against their will.
The problem with that it, there is no Biblical text that say you can do it against their will.
I pointed out some of the verses which say so, and you agreed at the top of post 654.

And here is a quick reminder:

(Ex. 21:2-3) If you are a volunteer Israelite, you can leave at year 7. Provided you are not tricked, as in verse (Exodus 21:4-6). So be sure to know exactly what you are signing. :approve:
(Ex. 21:4) If you are slave offspring of a provided wife, you are not allowed to leave. You are the master's slave.
(Ex. 21:7) If you are a daughter, and the father wants to sell the daughter off, the daughter has no say. The daughter becomes the master's slave for life.
(Lev. 25:44-46) If you are not an Israelite, you can be held as property for life without the slave's consent.

Hence, your argument fails. Many slaves have no say in the matter
.
1213 wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 12:45 am I think it is very important, when you say that some rule is only for Israelite. If you can't define who are Israelite, your argument becomes irrelevant.
Your argument is irrelevant because even if you correctly define what constitutes as an "Israelite", the rules differ, per situation anyways. A prime example is Exodus 21.

Further, you are trying to wiggle your way out of a very precarious position for yourself. I asked, and you avoided the question. I will ask again.

Why would God allow/condone any of his human creation to be made chattel slaves for life or be bred as a chattel slave for life? Why not just abolish chattel slavery and slave breeding, like Christians wish for the act of abortion to be abolished?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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POI wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:34 am
1213 wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 12:45 am
POI wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 4:39 am The Bible states you can make certain individuals slaves against their will.
The problem with that it, there is no Biblical text that say you can do it against their will.
I pointed out some of the verses which say so, and you agreed at the top of post 654.
Do you mean that I said to you "maybe so", meaning it is possible that there were slaves that were forced to be slaves? I think it is possible that people have been forced to be slaves. I also think it was wrong and against what is said in the Bible.
POI wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:34 am....Many slaves have no say in the matter....
Even if they would not have, God has. God has said "love your neighbor as yourself" and His commandments are against kidnapping others. Those two prevents anyone to be held as a slave against their will, if a person really goes by what is said in the Bible.
POI wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:34 amYour argument is irrelevant because even if you correctly define what constitutes as an "Israelite", the rules differ, per situation anyways.
If you can't give any better definition, I think everyone who lives in Israel is an Israelite, including all the slaves, because everyone there would have to live by the Biblical rules.
POI wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:34 amWhy would God allow/condone any of his human creation to be made chattel slaves for life or be bred as a chattel slave for life?
Bible speaks only about slavery, not chattel slavery. And it is not said they can breed slaves. I believe Bible allows slavery only if the person accepts it. And I don't see why it should be forbidden, if the person is voluntarily doing it.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am I think it is possible that people have been forced to be slaves. I also think it was wrong and against what is said in the Bible.
It does not matter what you personally think. It instead matters what the Bible endorses or condones. And the Bible condones owning other humans as property for life. I have given you the verse(s) repeatedly, but you continue to ignore them.
1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am Even if they would not have, God has.
Correct, the Bible's rules are conditional and situational. If you are certain slave offspring, you are kept in slavery for life without your own consent - Exodus 21. If you are certain females, you are also kept for life as a slave - also from Exodus 21.
1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am God has said "love your neighbor as yourself" and His commandments are against kidnapping others.
I have responded to this claim many times now. You either continue to forget, or, are trying to divert. I am not talking about kidnapped individuals at all. There are other ways the master can legally keep a slave, even for life, against their will. Such as:

- Tricking your slave (Exodus 21:4-6). Think about how many folks do not read the entire document before signing on the dotted line. Ignorance to all the rules does not make one exempt from the rule of law. Further, most slaves were illiterate anyhow. Give them companionship and see what happens ;)

- If you are born into slavery (Exodus 21:4-6). The children are instructed to be kept by the master. This is classic slave breeding.

- If you are a female and being handed over by your father - (Exodus 21:7), The daughter again has no say in the matter.
1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am Those two prevents anyone to be held as a slave against their will, if a person really goes by what is said in the Bible.
No one would volunteer to become a chattel slave for life. Further, the laws are clear in that the law is not equal for all. I've also explained ad nauseum, but you continue to mistakenly repeat yourself anyways.
1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am If you can't give any better definition, I think everyone who lives in Israel is an Israelite, including all the slaves, because everyone there would have to live by the Biblical rules.
It does not matter because I already provided three exceptions (above) to the rule, regardless of what they are "labeled". Hence, your attempt at another diversion is still irrelevant any ways.
1213 wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 1:43 am Bible speaks only about slavery, not chattel slavery. And it is not said they can breed slaves. I believe Bible allows slavery only if the person accepts it. And I don't see why it should be forbidden, if the person is voluntarily doing it.
The fact that you continue to engage this topic means you likely do not like chattel slavery or slave breeding. So why doesn't the Bible abolish it, just like the Bible abolishes many other acts in which the Bible author(s) do not like? The Bible does not condone any act in which the Bible author(s) do not like, regardless of whether or not it is consensual. And when the Bible occasionally does condone something in which the Bible does not like, such as divorce, the Bible still expresses (in other areas) about how the Bible does not like divorce. Well, where slavery is concerned, we do not have such pronouncements. And since the Bible author(s) have no problem telling folks what they do and do not like, then I guess owning certain folks, against their will, is a-okay in the Bible's eyes.

It does not matter what you 'believe' but instead what you can prove. I have proven, using your Bible book, that the Bible endorses both 1) involuntary chattel slavery as well as 2) slave breeding. Some folks have no say in the matter. This primarily includes females and offspring. You can start back at the original post and go from there. Take a look at Exodus 21 in context.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 2:32 am ... If you are certain slave offspring, you are kept in slavery for life without your own consent ...
Unless it goes against the "love your neighbor as yourself", which you try to ignore as hard as you can.
POI wrote: Thu Apr 03, 2025 2:32 am No one would volunteer to become a chattel slave for life.
Could that explain why we don't nominally have chattel slaves anymore and that they are nowadays called tax payers so that they would not feel like they are chattel slaves for life?
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