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Post #71
This is a good point. Malpractice insurance is absurdly high because juries for some reason find doctors culpable in many situations where judgment should have been an issue instead of right/wrong. I am curious how you see such a situation affecting the marijuana debate. I would think that doctors would have even less responsibility when they prescribe marijuana because it is not a medicine that has gone through the pharmacuetical wringer. If it's legalized, that is. I believe it is often seen as a last resort, and as such, has the air of being experimental.TQWcS wrote:Well for the first thing I would say the doctor would go with the cheaper drug for the patient. In my experience doctors just want to help. There is one reason doctors overprescribe medicines... Lawyers. If you don't give them antibiotics they will sue you. If you give them painkillers and they get addicted they sue you. If you don't give them painkillers they sue you. In our current justice system doctors are at a lose lose situation.
This doesn't change the fact that pharmaceutical companies have absolutely no interest in seeing marijuana legalized. I would think that HMOs would have an interest, however, because it is self-medication, something that they are always telling me about in their quarterly newsletters. Cheaper for them if I don't use their services.
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aprilannies
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Post #72
Something that I'm surprised hasn't been touched on more is the damaging psychological effects of marijuana vs. alcohol.
Stop and think of a scenario, where instead of alcohol being the legalized drug of choice throughout the western world, it was marijuana. Instead of bar fights we get minor verbal altercations over who has to get up to go to the fridge.
The first thing that comes to my mind is the aggressive behavior some people intoxicated with alcohol will exhibit. You don't have to look very long to find a violent drunk. Turn the page, I have never met or heard of anyone who has become violent after partaking in marijuana. People who are violent are infringing on my rights, but that goes back to blaming the drug.
Keeping marijuana banned only because the law is already in place is absurd. Based on personal experience with loved ones, alcohol is a FAR more damaging drug than marijuana. If alcohol is legal, the continued ban on marijuana is illogical.
Legalization would have many more positives than negatives, primarily freeing up the court systems for more important matters, though revenue that is generated through taxation, and police resources and personnel freed up to focus on real crime wouldn't hurt either.
One final thing, a comment on the assertion 'There's something wrong with you if you need drugs to be happy.' Okay, I can live with that statement. Regardless, there is a HUGE difference between smoking a joint on the weekends (or in the evenings after work) and being a pothead, the same way there's a massive difference between having a beer with dinner and being an alcoholic. It's all about moderation and personal responsibility.
Stop and think of a scenario, where instead of alcohol being the legalized drug of choice throughout the western world, it was marijuana. Instead of bar fights we get minor verbal altercations over who has to get up to go to the fridge.
The first thing that comes to my mind is the aggressive behavior some people intoxicated with alcohol will exhibit. You don't have to look very long to find a violent drunk. Turn the page, I have never met or heard of anyone who has become violent after partaking in marijuana. People who are violent are infringing on my rights, but that goes back to blaming the drug.
Keeping marijuana banned only because the law is already in place is absurd. Based on personal experience with loved ones, alcohol is a FAR more damaging drug than marijuana. If alcohol is legal, the continued ban on marijuana is illogical.
Legalization would have many more positives than negatives, primarily freeing up the court systems for more important matters, though revenue that is generated through taxation, and police resources and personnel freed up to focus on real crime wouldn't hurt either.
One final thing, a comment on the assertion 'There's something wrong with you if you need drugs to be happy.' Okay, I can live with that statement. Regardless, there is a HUGE difference between smoking a joint on the weekends (or in the evenings after work) and being a pothead, the same way there's a massive difference between having a beer with dinner and being an alcoholic. It's all about moderation and personal responsibility.
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Gangstawombatninja
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Post #73
Marijuana isn't exactly good for you. I kills sperm cells and brain cells, from what I understand. Whereas sperm cells are renewable and (very) abundant brain cells can't regrow themselves from what I understand.
But it's effects are not nearly as damaging as alcohol or cigarettes are to the body. And even psychologically, alcohol ruins a life a hell more than marijuana ever could. Like domestic violence, for one. And cigarettes, too, can have psychological effects worse than marijuana. Cigarettes have nicotine, which, as everyone know, is chemically addictive. Trying to quit after long dependence can throw you body all out of wack--insomnia, lack of appetite and general crazedness from your body going into from being deprived of a chemical dependecy.
Marijuana is no more addictive than chocolate. Meaning, it's addictiveness isn't chemical. It's physical and psychological damaging are not nearly as bad as our two legal drugs--nonpercription, that is.
If it makes a person feel happy and cope with the stress and unhappiness in the world, good for them. I've never tried (though have had the resources and do, I guess) mj but I ranked as being a drug being inconsequiential in negativity compared to alcohal and cigarettes.
The D.A.R.E. people used to talke to use about mj being a "gateway" drug that will lead us to more dangerous drugs. Cigarettes and alchohal are bigger gateway drugs than mj, though.
I once heard that if marijauna was legalized it would eliminate the national debt. If this is an exageration, it certainly won't hurt. Bush senior left us with 7 trillion. Clintion brought us down (or up, rather) to 4 trillion. B. junior's got us back at 7, I think. (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Seems like America needs to hit the bong. It'll at least pay for the 200 frickin' billion from the war (in the end)--the Gulf only cost us 5. Legalize it. Help our economy.
We need it. Maybe swith legalization for temperence. 
.
But it's effects are not nearly as damaging as alcohol or cigarettes are to the body. And even psychologically, alcohol ruins a life a hell more than marijuana ever could. Like domestic violence, for one. And cigarettes, too, can have psychological effects worse than marijuana. Cigarettes have nicotine, which, as everyone know, is chemically addictive. Trying to quit after long dependence can throw you body all out of wack--insomnia, lack of appetite and general crazedness from your body going into from being deprived of a chemical dependecy.
Marijuana is no more addictive than chocolate. Meaning, it's addictiveness isn't chemical. It's physical and psychological damaging are not nearly as bad as our two legal drugs--nonpercription, that is.
If it makes a person feel happy and cope with the stress and unhappiness in the world, good for them. I've never tried (though have had the resources and do, I guess) mj but I ranked as being a drug being inconsequiential in negativity compared to alcohal and cigarettes.
The D.A.R.E. people used to talke to use about mj being a "gateway" drug that will lead us to more dangerous drugs. Cigarettes and alchohal are bigger gateway drugs than mj, though.
I once heard that if marijauna was legalized it would eliminate the national debt. If this is an exageration, it certainly won't hurt. Bush senior left us with 7 trillion. Clintion brought us down (or up, rather) to 4 trillion. B. junior's got us back at 7, I think. (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Seems like America needs to hit the bong. It'll at least pay for the 200 frickin' billion from the war (in the end)--the Gulf only cost us 5. Legalize it. Help our economy.
We need it. Maybe swith legalization for temperence. .Post #74
Though brain cells don't regrow themselves, marijuana does not kill them. Nor does it kill sperm cells. It does lower sperm counts, but not enough in normally healthy individuals to make much of a difference in fertility. The 1974 study done that showed this effect used amounts of THC that no casual user would use (the equivalent of 20 joints per day for a month, or something like that). Additionally, like you say, alcohol and tobacco have much more of a negative effect on fertility and brain function than marijuana does.Gangstawombatninja wrote:Marijuana isn't exactly good for you. I kills sperm cells and brain cells, from what I understand. Whereas sperm cells are renewable and (very) abundant brain cells can't regrow themselves from what I understand.
Post #75
aprilannies wrote:
Something that I'm surprised hasn't been touched on more is the damaging psychological effects of marijuana vs. alcohol.
Stop and think of a scenario, where instead of alcohol being the legalized drug of choice throughout the western world, it was marijuana. Instead of bar fights we get minor verbal altercations over who has to get up to go to the fridge.
The first thing that comes to my mind is the aggressive behavior some people intoxicated with alcohol will exhibit. You don't have to look very long to find a violent drunk. Turn the page, I have never met or heard of anyone who has become violent after partaking in marijuana. People who are violent are infringing on my rights, but that goes back to blaming the drug.
Gangstawombatninja wrote:
Marijuana isn't exactly good for you. I kills sperm cells and brain cells, from what I understand. Whereas sperm cells are renewable and (very) abundant brain cells can't regrow themselves from what I understand.
But it's effects are not nearly as damaging as alcohol or cigarettes are to the body. And even psychologically, alcohol ruins a life a hell more than marijuana ever could. Like domestic violence, for one. And cigarettes, too, can have psychological effects worse than marijuana. Cigarettes have nicotine, which, as everyone know, is chemically addictive. Trying to quit after long dependence can throw you body all out of wack--insomnia, lack of appetite and general crazedness from your body going into from being deprived of a chemical dependecy.
Marijuana is no more addictive than chocolate. Meaning, it's addictiveness isn't chemical. It's physical and psychological damaging are not nearly as bad as our two legal drugs--nonpercription, that is.
If it makes a person feel happy and cope with the stress and unhappiness in the world, good for them. I've never tried (though have had the resources and do, I guess) mj but I ranked as being a drug being inconsequiential in negativity compared to alcohal and cigarettes.
The D.A.R.E. people used to talke to use about mj being a "gateway" drug that will lead us to more dangerous drugs. Cigarettes and alchohal are bigger gateway drugs than mj, though.
It seems to me, if your statements are correct, that it would be better to ban alcohol and cigarettes than legalize marijuana. Since we already allow two dangerous drugs, we should allow a third?
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Vladd44
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Post #76
Well as I sit here packing this bowl.........It seems to me, if your statements are correct, that it would be better to ban alcohol and cigarettes than legalize marijuana. Since we already allow two dangerous drugs, we should allow a third?
I dont need government to act as my parents... I am an adult of legal age, What next? Ban Big Macs?
Let me smoke my weed, and I wont hassle you over your coffee.
20 cases medically documented of people dying due to caffeine OD.
I have as of yet been unable to find a single incident of anyone ODing hitting the bong.
Post #77
I think the issue here is that the government has allowed the use of these harmful substances despite their harmful effects, in order to preserve personal freedom of choice. It is disingenuous at best for them to ban marijuana to protect us from ourselves when these other substances are allowed to be purveyed.hannahjoy wrote: It seems to me, if your statements are correct, that it would be better to ban alcohol and cigarettes than legalize marijuana. Since we already allow two dangerous drugs, we should allow a third?
Ultimately, if they want to say that tobacco is a choice and that people should be allowed to choose to harm themselves with it, then it doesn't make any sense for marijuana to be banned in order to take away that choice for harm. But because it does not have to be processed on a large scale in order for it to be used, like tobacco and alcohol do, there is no corporate-backed lobbying entity that would seek to preserve the right to toke.
Marijuana should be legal
Post #78My stance is the same as the Libertarian Party: drugs should be decriminalized. Prohibition has never worked, as was illustrated in the early years of the 20th century, when alcohol was illegal. At the time, organized crime was created by...the Federal Government. The illegality of alcohol granted an exclusive monopoly to organized crime, allowing them to charge high prices, by which they became rich and powerful. This power and money allowed them to extend their influence into other areas of legitimate business, as well as bribes, etc. for officials. So what has ended up happening is the Federal government is spending billions on the "war on drugs" when decriminalization and free market operations would put organized crime and the violence that goes along with it, out of business in three weeks, because prices would sink to the very low levels that they should be at, for basically worthless substances.
Marijuana falls into the intoxicant class, along with alcohol. It is basically harmless, although abuse can lead to psychological dependence. One joint has as much tar as 4 or 5 cigarettes.
Substance abusers don't belong in jail, they need education and counseling with regard to highly refined and very dangerous street drugs. Cocaine/Crack are very addictive and can interfere with the electrical impulses generated in the heart. It can also cause the heart to enlarge and weaken, thus leading to congestive heart failure. (just ask Jerry Garcia or Len Bias who are both....DEAD) In addition to being highly addictive, heroin causes ulceration of blood vessel walls, and liver and kidney damage. Crystal meth and its derivative "X" cause nervous system damage. "X" can also cause brain damage. These substance are deadly, and should be completely avoided.
The denial of marijuana for medical uses is the height of hypocrisy. The Bush cabal, in concert with their corporate drug company cronies and their pushers, the AMA, have put pressure against marijuana and other forms of natural treatment which actually work and are much cheaper than drug company products, which can frequently have undesirable and even deadly side effects. Of course, in the corporate oligarchy that we have now, it's all about the money, isn't it?
K
Marijuana falls into the intoxicant class, along with alcohol. It is basically harmless, although abuse can lead to psychological dependence. One joint has as much tar as 4 or 5 cigarettes.
Substance abusers don't belong in jail, they need education and counseling with regard to highly refined and very dangerous street drugs. Cocaine/Crack are very addictive and can interfere with the electrical impulses generated in the heart. It can also cause the heart to enlarge and weaken, thus leading to congestive heart failure. (just ask Jerry Garcia or Len Bias who are both....DEAD) In addition to being highly addictive, heroin causes ulceration of blood vessel walls, and liver and kidney damage. Crystal meth and its derivative "X" cause nervous system damage. "X" can also cause brain damage. These substance are deadly, and should be completely avoided.
The denial of marijuana for medical uses is the height of hypocrisy. The Bush cabal, in concert with their corporate drug company cronies and their pushers, the AMA, have put pressure against marijuana and other forms of natural treatment which actually work and are much cheaper than drug company products, which can frequently have undesirable and even deadly side effects. Of course, in the corporate oligarchy that we have now, it's all about the money, isn't it?
K
In Ma'at
(Mystical Kemet)
(Mystical Kemet)
Post #79
Why should I want to legalize all of the drugs? I could care less about peoples freedom when it comes to that. I know that when I have a kid I don't want him to have access to cocaine or heroine.
I believe freedom is important, but it can go too far.
I believe freedom is important, but it can go too far.
Post #80
I'm sure there are plenty of people who will agree with that....
I mean, freedom of speech, that's important, but I sure wouldn't want my children to be able to read books that make them think about things I don't see as proper...
and what about music, some of it is garbage, might as well take those freedoms away, too, WE"VE GOT TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN!!!!!
Newsflash!
Cocaine and Heroin are already available to your children. What's worse is cocaine can be cut with anything, so who knows what your kids are puttin up thier noses because the drugs are illegal.
The best way to keep your kids from doing drugs is to educate them on the downfalls of drug use. It amazes me the power we give to the government just because we are too lazy to take responsibility for our own actions
I mean, freedom of speech, that's important, but I sure wouldn't want my children to be able to read books that make them think about things I don't see as proper...
and what about music, some of it is garbage, might as well take those freedoms away, too, WE"VE GOT TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN!!!!!
Newsflash!
Cocaine and Heroin are already available to your children. What's worse is cocaine can be cut with anything, so who knows what your kids are puttin up thier noses because the drugs are illegal.
The best way to keep your kids from doing drugs is to educate them on the downfalls of drug use. It amazes me the power we give to the government just because we are too lazy to take responsibility for our own actions
