Islam and its apostates: kill all, or kill only some?

[EduChris]

Some questions for Muslims:

What does the Qur'an teach about killing those who convert from Islam to another faith?

What do the Islamic haddiths depict Mohammad as teaching about the execution of those who convert from Islam to another faith?

What does Islamic Sharia law say about killing those who convert from Islam to another faith?

How does all of this relate to the Qur'anic insistance that there should be "no compulsion" in religion?

[bobroonie]

But why do they not simply say, "There is no compulsion in religion"? Why do Islamic rulers not just admit that any prior ruling that did not take this into account is null and void?

Are you saying that Muslims are incapable of admitting their mistakes and starting over again with a clean slate? It seems to me that the cognitive dissonance between "No compulsion in religion," on the one hand, and "Slay the infidels, apostates, and blasphemers" is so great that sooner or later there will have to be an Islamic reformation.

The quote

2:256

"There is no compulsion in religion."

Has been abrogated.

Verse of the sword made null and void all the peaceful versus prior to it.

9:5

"Then when the sacred months have passed , then kill the mushrikun (non-believers) wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is oft-forgiving Most Merciful."

9:5

"Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. But if they repent and accept Islam then leaver their way free."

Vol 8, Bk 82 Hadith 795

"The prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterize till they died."

Muhammad was a very brutal war lord, nothing more.

The Quran is not arranged in chronological order it's aranged on basis of the longest chapter to the shortest. So you will find more tolerant versus at a later point in the book after the violence, but that does not mean they were made into being later on. In all actuality the violent ones came after so they are the truth of Islam. And the peaceful ones have been abrogated.

Muhammaed personally beheaded 600-900 people. Since Muhammed is the "perfect man" in the Ilsamic religion, and the closer you are to being like Muhammed, the better man you are. It is not only a good thing to behead infidels but it is looked as you being closer to acting like the phorphet.

[Murad]

Hello bobroonie

You quoted verses out of context (What most anti-islamic websites tend to do)

The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

Muhammad was a very brutal war lord, nothing more.

Yes, even his disciples described him as 'ferocious' on the battle field; a War Lord on the battle ground, and a man of wisdom & knowledge off the battle ground & a leader for his people.

Muhammaed personally beheaded 600-900 people. Since Muhammed is the "perfect man" in the Ilsamic religion, and the closer you are to being like Muhammed, the better man you are. It is not only a good thing to behead infidels but it is looked as you being closer to acting like the phorphet.

Well first of all, the word 'infidel' was first used by historians to describe non-christians that were targeted or were warring with the crusades.

Yes he was a great warrior, but its not what your trying to make it. Im sure your thinking of the "Sunnah"(Teachings of the Prophet) and each muslim is encouraged to follow the Sunnah. If you actually read texts regarding the Sunnah you will see there is much, much more than military warfare; that topic doesn't even scratch the surface of the Sunnah.


The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses

(Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

[Wood-Man]

So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?

[Murad]

So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?

In the midst of war; although i understand some prisoners were executed for "spreading corruption"; preaching pagan Gods in the area of Islamic rule.

Im pretty sure some of the Pagan warlords were also beheaded by a few of his disciples: Abu Bakr, Umar etc..

[Wood-Man]

So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?

In the midst of war; although i understand some prisoners were executed for "spreading corruption"; preaching pagan Gods in the area of Islamic rule.

I'm pretty sure some of the Pagan warlords were also beheaded by a few of his disciples: Abu Bakr, Umar etc..

I'm still having trouble with the wording here. It seems to me that "in the heat of battle" is not the same as "in the midst of war." To me, "in the heat of battle" means during actual hand-to-hand (or weapon-to-weapon) combat. The phrase "in the midst of war" is much broader and includes periods between battles It could include execution of prisoners. Is it your understanding that Muhammad performed most of these beheadings during individual combat, as a means of dispatching the opponent?

[Murad]

So Murad, is it true that he personally beheaded 600-900 people? If so, did he behead these people during the actual heat of battle, or afterward, to captured prisoners?

In the midst of war; although i understand some prisoners were executed for "spreading corruption"; preaching pagan Gods in the area of Islamic rule.

I'm pretty sure some of the Pagan warlords were also beheaded by a few of his disciples: Abu Bakr, Umar etc..

I'm still having trouble with the wording here. It seems to me that "in the heat of battle" is not the same as "in the midst of war." To me, "in the heat of battle" means during actual hand-to-hand (or weapon-to-weapon) combat. The phrase "in the midst of war" is much broader and includes periods between battles It could include execution of prisoners. Is it your understanding that Muhammad performed most of these beheadings during individual combat, as a means of dispatching the opponent?

In Sharia Law, there is no distinction between "Midst of war" and "Heat of war"; once war is declared, then the Islamic state is officially in the state of war.
All the fighting is done on the battlefield (hand to hand combat), the prisoners were usually made servants or slaves.

Abu Bakr , the first caliph or successor to Prophet Mohammed established a detailed set of rules for Islamic conduct in war. He gave these instructions to an Islamic army setting out for Syria, then still part of the Byzantine Empire:

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"

[Woland]

Hello Murad,

You have not answered Wood-Man's question. Did Muhammad mass behead prisoners of war after one or many battles, or not?

Several Islamic accounts state that after the battle with the Banu Quraiza, Muhammad beheaded all the men of the tribe which had grown pubic hair, effectively committing genocide. Do you deny this?

-Woland

[Murad]

Hello Murad,

You have not answered Wood-Man's question. Did Muhammad mass behead prisoners of war after one or many battles, or not?

Several Islamic accounts state that after the battle with the Banu Quraiza, Muhammad beheaded all the men of the tribe which had grown pubic hair, effectively committing genocide. Do you deny this?

-Woland

Yes the men were beheaded.

[Woland]

Hello Murad,

You have not answered Wood-Man's question. Did Muhammad mass behead prisoners of war after one or many battles, or not?

Several Islamic accounts state that after the battle with the Banu Quraiza, Muhammad beheaded all the men of the tribe which had grown pubic hair, effectively committing genocide. Do you deny this?

-Woland

Yes the men were beheaded.

I see.

Do you have no moral qualms with the fact that your prophet committed genocide?

Do you believe that all the men with pubic hair in the tribe deserved to be killed, and all the women and children turned into slaves?

Do you believe that the U.S. has the right to execute Muslim prisoners of war, or is the mass assassination of an entire tribe of prisoners of war a right reserved only for the "righteous" messenger of Allah?

-Woland

[Murad]

Do you believe that all the men with pubic hair in the tribe deserved to be killed, and all the women and children turned into slaves?

They comitted treason; under the law; treason has the death sentence.
For example a russian spy caught in America could be executed for 'treason'

Do you believe that the U.S. has the right to execute Muslim prisoners of war?

-Woland

It depends on the crime, for example if its for treason or terrorism, yes. Only men though; no children, women or elderly.