Compassionate Islam?

[bernee51]

Is this yet another example of Allah the Compassionate...

Pakistani mother of three sentenced to death for blasphemy for supposedly blaspheming the "Prophet" after her offers of bringing water to Muslims was rejected on the grounds that she was a Christian.

1. Should Islam throw of the yoke of such ridiculous laws as as blasphemy? Can it?

2. Where is the compassion and acceptance within this medieval abomination of a beleif system?

[Asher]

Peace be upon you;

This dialogue is not going well or anywhere you are judging me instead of the facts or lies. I am not judging you. I am not looking to refute or argue with you about this. I just said it doesn't make sense to me that Allah has to show respect. You have no right to tell me I don't accept it, bc I can't refute it. I am not trying to refute this just trying to make sense of it and I can't.

Then maybe you should understand the word "debate" from which the title of this website has been derived;
The trinity neither make sense and yet you have accepted it, You just chose whatever you want, and deny whatever go against your belief;

What does Hitler have to do with any of this? Please bring up revelant things.

You said that God is to be blamed for what Paul wrote;
It is like you are blaming God for whatever anyone does; Just like Hitler killed 6million Jews you are ready to day that God made him do it, just to support your idea;
It is not irrelevant, it is an example;

Reputable Islamic sources state that the one who was willing to die in Jesus place was guaranteed paradise.

I don't rely on "Reputable Islamic sources", I believe in the Qur'an and the Hadith;

I don't know if this is true or not, but the Bible states that Judas hanged himself.

Matthew 27:3-8 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

Acts 1:18-19 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Tell me which one is true?

So why would Allah let someone die in Jesus' place? Was it to save him just to result in a religion that would cost the lives of a billion people throught the centuries. In the name of religion, more people have died than both world wars. So instead of the prophet Jesus (The word of God) dying for our sin like the Bible states, the world dies to save Jesus.

This is the law of God:
Deuteronomy 19:17-19
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

John 6:70-71
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

God has sent a test upon you, and you failed completely in believing in whatever others have taught instead of following the commandments;

This is such a major stupid twisting of holy scripture in the gospels. Since you brought up Hitler, let me tell you what he said. The bigger the lie the more apt people are to believe it. Allah says he is the best of deceivers; he doesn't say it about the satan; he says it about himself. I simply don't want Allah's deception. That is all, and if I can convince you fine; if not, God knows I tried.

Surely he knows that you have tried to mislead me, but this have help me making my faith stronger than before;
Thanks to you I know how christian can be to try to defend themselves, how they ignore arguments, denies the truth or lies by saying that it is not enough explicit;

Peace be upon you all;

[Burninglight]

Peace be upon you;

This dialogue is not going well or anywhere. You are judging me instead of the facts or lies. I am not judging you. I am not looking to refute or argue with you about this. I just said it doesn't make sense to me that Allah has to show respect. You have no right to tell me I don't accept it, bc I can't refute it. I am not trying to refute this just trying to make sense of it and I can't.

Then maybe you should understand the word "debate" from which the title of this website has been derived;
The trinity neither make sense and yet you have accepted it, You just chose whatever you want, and deny whatever go against your belief;

Don't patronize me. The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God and so does the Quran. The word of God is eternal. I have never heard a Muslim deny that. If the word of God is eternal, His word is also uncreated. You can come to you own conclusion of what that makes Jesus. I have my own convictions and I know who Jesus is to me. I don't see the big deal Muslims make about the trinity (Father, word, spirit). If the Quran didn't come against it, they would make appeals for it saying its not logical. You come against the trinity not because it is not spiritually logical; it is because of the lies about Him in the Quran that you unfortunately believe to be true. You don't see it the way I do.

I see it as Allah had deceived, and he continues to do so that is his trade make. Do not be deceived. If Jesus is the word of God, He is all that God's word is - not part - ALL, complete, the whole; not half; not partner, not an associate; He is not just a word; He is the word; the very word of God.

This is God speaking to you now. Jesus is His word; no prophet was ever God's word except for Jesus. The Bible states He is the word who was with God and who was God. Oh offenase intented, but the Islamic Allah is a damned liar and so is his false prophet. I don't know how to reach you. Satan can do sign and wonders he is the best at magic and deception and/or illusion better than all magicians put together. He can certainly make it appear the moon split in half. Don't fall for his schemes tricks lies or deceptions. Jesus said, "I am the way..." for a reason. He didn't say I show the way like other prophets; He didn't say I bring God's word He said whosoever believeth on me will not be ashamed.

What does Hitler have to do with any of this? Please bring up revelant things.

You said that God is to be blamed for what Paul wrote;
It is like you are blaming God for whatever anyone does; Just like Hitler killed 6million Jews you are ready to day that God made him do it, just to support your idea;
It is not irrelevant, it is an example;

I said no such thing. I blamed Allah deception for starting Christianity. If you don't like Paul's message take it up with the best of deceivers. He fooled everyone including Paul. You aske did Judas hang himself and which is gtrue. Who is the first Muslim according to the Quran?

[Asher]

Peace be upon you;

Yes, Jesus came unto His own, but they didn't receive Him but as many has have to them he gave the power to become the sons of God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (John 8:42)
Jesus said that it is God who has sent him, and that he did not came of himself;

Jesus gives this power.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)
Which power?

Of course he need to be sent Just like I would sent word of my will God sends word of His will. His will is that we believe on Him whom he sent.

Then why don't you believe him:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)
If you are telling that he was talking about a Ghost:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (1 John 4:2)
Why did you not believe in the Comforter that God has sent?

The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God and so does the Bible. The word of God is eternal. I have never heard a Muslim deny that. If the word of God is eternal, His word is also uncreated.

His word is not created but spoken,
You said that the bible is the word of God then why was it not eternal?

You can come to you own conclusion of what that makes Jesus. I have my own convictions and I know who Jesus is to me.

Conviction is a great thing, but believing in something which goes against the scriptures because of your conviction ;

I don't see the big deal Muslims make about the trinity (Father, word, spirit). If the Quran didn't come against it, they would make appeals for it not be logical. You come against the trinity not because it is not spiritually logical;

Even if we put away the Qur'an, the bible on it's own doesn't support this concept;

it is because of the lies about Him in the Quran that you unfortunately believe to be true. You don't see it the way I do.

How can we see it the way you do if yourself you cannot explain the trinity;
Moreover you were not able to show a consistent argument to prove the existence of the trinity;

I see it as Allah had deceived and he continues to do so that is his trade make. Do not be deceived. If Jesus is the word of God, He is all that God's word is not part ALL, complete, the whole; not half; not partner, not an associate; He is not just a word; He is the word; the very word of God. It is God speaking to you now. Jesus is His word; no prophet was ever God's word except for Jesus.

The bible also according to you is God's word, then he must be equal to Jesus?

The Bible states He is the word who was with God and who was God.

From the "original copy" of the bible if you translate every word without omitting whatever does not suite the trinitarians;
The verse in question is:
"He is the word who was with God and who was the god."
Which means that he was a prophet not God almighty;

The Islamic Allah is a damned liar and so is his false prophet. I don't know how to reach you. Satan can do sign and wonders he is the best at magic and deception and illusion better than all magicians together. He can certain make it appear the moon split in half. Don't fall for his schemes tricks lies or deceptions.

I don't need you to reach me; I good where I am, no more lies, blind beliefs and illogical mysteries;
The only lie that I can see is the "Bible" being the word of God;

Jesus said I am the way for a reason. he didn't say I show the way like other prophets;He didn't say I bring God's word He said whosoever believeth on me will not be ashamed.

For you to follow him, then why don't you follow him?, he prayed the father, and you pray him;

I said no such thing. I blamed Allah deception for starting Christianity.

If you don't know(which I doubt) Allah in arabic means God in english;

If you don't like Paul's message take it up with the best of deceivers. He fooled everyone including Paul.

If Paul was too stupid to believe in a spirit, that did not "confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God";
And you have chosen to follow him:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (1 John 4:2)
But I'm asking myself whether you really follows Paul's(bible's) teaching in 1 Corinthians 11?

You aske did Judas hang himself and which is gtrue.

The book of acts does not support this;
Which says that Judas fell "headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

Who is the first Muslim according to the Quran?

Adam was the first muslim in his time;
Noah was the first muslim in his time;
Abraham was the first muslim in his time;
…
Almost all the prophets were the first to accept islam in their times;

You have posted this comment in 2 different places with 2 different persons are you out or argument?
Peace be upon you all;

[Burninglight]

The only lie that I can see is the "Bible" being the word of God;;

I see so you don't believe the Quran's view of the Torah and Injeel being sent by Allah, and you ignore that the Quran was designed to confirm the Scripture that came before; so, instead of blaming the Quran of corruption you blame the Bible. Even after you know Uthman tampered with the Quran.

Who is the first Muslim according to the Quran?

Adam was the first muslim in his time;
Noah was the first muslim in his time;
Abraham was the first muslim in his time;
Peace be upon you all;

lol

[PREEST]

Is this yet another example of Allah the Compassionate...

Pakistani mother of three sentenced to death for blasphemy for supposedly blaspheming the "Prophet" after her offers of bringing water to Muslims was rejected on the grounds that she was a Christian.

1. Should Islam throw of the yoke of such ridiculous laws as as blasphemy? Can it?

2. Where is the compassion and acceptance within this medieval abomination of a beleif system?

I know we are taught to be understanding of other people's cultures and religions etc. But I cannot and will not tolerate Islam. The above example you made is a disgusting example of Islam in action. I disagree with christianity, but the worst fanatical christian only attends a dead soldiers funeral with a banner that reads 'god hates fags'. In the Islam faith, apostasy is punishable by death, so you cannot ever not be a muslim. Small issues like blasphemy are punishable by death. Woman have no rights. I HATE the subjugation of women, western culture will not stand for this and we shouldn't let muslims live in our lands if they are going to do this.

Islam is the worst of all religions. It preaches hatred and death to people who don't subscribe. What normal person in the Middle East would blow up a school for young girls, if not for Islam? (This actually happened).

People are just too scared to criticise Islam, mostly out of fear. EVEN IN OUR OWN COUNTRIES WE ARE SCARED TO CRITICISE ISLAM!!! I need not remind us of what happened in Denmark with the cartoons? It is an evil organisation and is the biggest threat to civilisation. They actually profess that they will not stop until all infidels are killed and the whole world is converted to Islam.

This is not to say there are not moderate muslims, but the core beliefs of Islam are anti-social and evil. Fanatical Muslims say of moderate muslims that they are not true to Islam. Moderate muslims say that fanatics ill represent Islam. Well none of this matters, the fact that sincere believers of Islam will kill innocent people, along with themselves for not being muslim, murder women for adultery, murder anyone for blasphemy, (which in most cases was not even blasphemy) will murder anyone who denounces their faith in Islam, are enough examples to say there is so much wrong with Islam that we should do without it. What's worse is that in many countries in the Middle East, Islam is the law.

I am scared of Islam, but I will criticise it. That is my right, and I won't be frightened into not saying what I think of such barbarism. (Unless of course I am face to face with a fanatic).

[PREEST]

Peace be upon you;

Yes, Jesus came unto His own, but they didn't receive Him but as many has have to them he gave the power to become the sons of God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (John 8:42)
Jesus said that it is God who has sent him, and that he did not came of himself;

Jesus gives this power.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)
Which power?

Of course he need to be sent Just like I would sent word of my will God sends word of His will. His will is that we believe on Him whom he sent.

Then why don't you believe him:
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)
If you are telling that he was talking about a Ghost:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (1 John 4:2)
Why did you not believe in the Comforter that God has sent?

The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God and so does the Bible. The word of God is eternal. I have never heard a Muslim deny that. If the word of God is eternal, His word is also uncreated.

His word is not created but spoken,
You said that the bible is the word of God then why was it not eternal?

You can come to you own conclusion of what that makes Jesus. I have my own convictions and I know who Jesus is to me.

Conviction is a great thing, but believing in something which goes against the scriptures because of your conviction ;

I don't see the big deal Muslims make about the trinity (Father, word, spirit). If the Quran didn't come against it, they would make appeals for it not be logical. You come against the trinity not because it is not spiritually logical;

Even if we put away the Qur'an, the bible on it's own doesn't support this concept;

it is because of the lies about Him in the Quran that you unfortunately believe to be true. You don't see it the way I do.

How can we see it the way you do if yourself you cannot explain the trinity;
Moreover you were not able to show a consistent argument to prove the existence of the trinity;

I see it as Allah had deceived and he continues to do so that is his trade make. Do not be deceived. If Jesus is the word of God, He is all that God's word is not part ALL, complete, the whole; not half; not partner, not an associate; He is not just a word; He is the word; the very word of God. It is God speaking to you now. Jesus is His word; no prophet was ever God's word except for Jesus.

The bible also according to you is God's word, then he must be equal to Jesus?

The Bible states He is the word who was with God and who was God.

From the "original copy" of the bible if you translate every word without omitting whatever does not suite the trinitarians;
The verse in question is:
"He is the word who was with God and who was the god."
Which means that he was a prophet not God almighty;

The Islamic Allah is a damned liar and so is his false prophet. I don't know how to reach you. Satan can do sign and wonders he is the best at magic and deception and illusion better than all magicians together. He can certain make it appear the moon split in half. Don't fall for his schemes tricks lies or deceptions.

I don't need you to reach me; I good where I am, no more lies, blind beliefs and illogical mysteries;
The only lie that I can see is the "Bible" being the word of God;

Jesus said I am the way for a reason. he didn't say I show the way like other prophets;He didn't say I bring God's word He said whosoever believeth on me will not be ashamed.

For you to follow him, then why don't you follow him?, he prayed the father, and you pray him;

I said no such thing. I blamed Allah deception for starting Christianity.

If you don't know(which I doubt) Allah in arabic means God in english;

If you don't like Paul's message take it up with the best of deceivers. He fooled everyone including Paul.

If Paul was too stupid to believe in a spirit, that did not "confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God";
And you have chosen to follow him:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (1 John 4:2)
But I'm asking myself whether you really follows Paul's(bible's) teaching in 1 Corinthians 11?

You aske did Judas hang himself and which is gtrue.

The book of acts does not support this;
Which says that Judas fell "headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

Who is the first Muslim according to the Quran?

Adam was the first muslim in his time;
Noah was the first muslim in his time;
Abraham was the first muslim in his time;
…
Almost all the prophets were the first to accept islam in their times;

You have posted this comment in 2 different places with 2 different persons are you out or argument?
Peace be upon you all;

Your name is Asher? My name is Asher too! Good to know there are other Ashers~ haha

[Burninglight]

His word is not created but spoken,
You said that the bible is the word of God then why was it not eternal?

His word is more than spoken; it is written and it was made flesh.

According to your view of God's word, you only have what is spoken. You might as well throw away your written Qurans.
Besides, Quran means recitation so just how do Muslims get write out of say? So, maybe you have a point from an Islamic perspective to where you can tell all Muslims they should burn their Qurans. Maybe Uthman had the right idea.

Uthman had no problem burning the original Qurans two years after Muhammad's death. One would think that Muhammad would have thought to correct the problem before his death. Uthman was the first to start a president for Quran burning. If he burned the originals and that was no problem, how can anyone complain or call rude burning his recompilation of the Quran?

He was no prophet. Who made him Allah's editor? He did make changes to the original or there would have been no need to burn them. You don't burn books just to put them in the Qursh language. He obviously did it to cover his tracks; moreover, he used Hafsah's copy to recompile them; then, her copy was destroyed after her death. Anyone should be able to see this if they want truth.

So the Quran was put to together with the help of text and not by recitation, because those that memorized it were killed. So just how corrupted is the Quran? If the Quran had deception before before it was burned, I shutter to think of what it is like now.

Contrary to what Muslims say, the Quran now has all kinds and interpolation and abrogations to make it unoriginal and unauthentic! And Muslim talk of the Bible being corrupted. The torah, psalms and injeel (Gospel) is what Allah sent down. We have the same copies Muhammad had. He never complained of corruption.

Muhammad criticized people for writing with their own hands and profiting for a miserable price, but never criticized the text of the Bible. There is no evidence he was speaking of the Bible. If anything, it is easier to believe he was speaking about the Quran. That could be the reason, or it makes more sense that Uthman would burn the original for that reason. They were corrupted to begin with, but who trusts a non prophet's compilation of the Quran?

[Burninglight]

His word is not created but spoken,
You said that the bible is the word of God then why was it not eternal?

His word is more than spoken; it is written and it was made flesh.

According to your view of God's word, you only have what is spoken. You might as well throw away your written Qurans.
Besides, Quran means recitation so just how do Muslims get write out of say? So, maybe you have a point from an Islamic perspective to where you can tell all Muslims they should burn their Qurans. Maybe Uthman had the right idea.

Uthman had no problem burning the original Qurans two years after Muhammad's death. One would think that Muhammad would have thought to correct the problem before his death. Uthman was the first to start a president for Quran burning. If he burned the originals and that was no problem, how can anyone complain or call rude burning his recompilation of the Quran?

He was no prophet. Who made him Allah's editor? He did make changes to the original or there would have been no need to burn them. You don't burn books just to put them in the Qursh language. He obviously did it to cover his tracks; moreover, he used Hafsah's copy to recompile them; then, her copy was destroyed after her death. Anyone should be able to see this if they want truth.

So the Quran was put to together with the help of text and not by recitation, because those that memorized it were killed. So just how corrupted is the Quran? If the Quran had deception before before it was burned, I shutter to think of what it is like now.

Contrary to what Muslims say, the Quran now has all kinds and interpolation and abrogations to make it unoriginal and unauthentic! And Muslim talk of the Bible being corrupted. The torah, psalms and injeel (Gospel) is what Allah sent down. We have the same copies Muhammad had. He never complained of corruption.

Muhammad criticized people for writing with their own hands and profiting for a miserable price, but never criticized the text of the Bible. There is no evidence he was speaking of the Bible. If anything, it is easier to believe he was speaking about the Quran. That could be the reason, or it makes more sense that Uthman would burn the original for that reason. They were corrupted to begin with, but who trusts a non prophet's compilation of the Quran?

[A Troubled Man]

LOL, I was waiting for someone to ask about this. It is not a contradiction. Jesus is not a god. Notice, first of all the lower case "g." An upper case "G" refers to only one God; therefore, Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Jesus is God come in the flesh or God's word come in human form.

So, God/god wore a human suit to fool everyone?

God cannot be more than His word right? Jesus is not a god. That would mean He is one out of many. In that case, there would be more than one god. That is not possible, because God is one and only one!

So, Jesus was nothing more than a human suit to be discarded?

God is Spirt and God is Holy; therefore, He is the Holy Spirit.

Sure, make up anything you want. It's still meaningless.

No Christian can tell you why God made His Holiness and His Word distinct persons, but the Word of God alludes to the trinity that is one not only in purposes but in nature. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God's partners. Jesus is not God's messenger; He is God's MESSAGE! They are one in essence!

And, we're back to square one.

[A Troubled Man]

You should buy a Qur'an there you will find how God created the Universe; And Science agrees with it;

There are a great deal of Islamic propagandists littering the internet with their garbled versions of how the Quran and science are compatible. None have ever been successful in their ventures, though.

The Quran describes that Allah "made from water every living thing" (21:30). Another verse describes how "Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things" (24:45). These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth's oceans.

Making all living things from water and having life originally beginning in water are not the same thing. There are many elements in living organisms that are not found in water alone.

In short, Muslims do not believe that human beings randomly evolved from apes. The life of human beings began with the creation of two people, a male and a female named Adam and Hawwa (Eve).

Obviously, science does not agree with those beliefs.