Rational and civil debate between members of all religions and world views
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| Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
| Yes |
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50% |
[ 9 ] |
| No |
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38% |
[ 7 ] |
| Unsure |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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| Author |
Message |
OnceConvinced Prodigy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Total posts: 2955 Location: New Zealand Age: 42 Gender: Male
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Post 1:
Mon May 25, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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Drs made this statement in another thread:
| Quote: |
From what I see, most people don't want to go to Heaven because they don't want to obey GOD. |
Ok, lets make some assumptions here based on what Christians believe:
Heaven: Paradise. Eternal life. No sickness, sadness. All joy. You'll never run out of things to do. It will be FANTASTIC (and no you won't just be sitting around on clouds playing harps or worshiping at God's feet all the time). There is no slavery involved. You won't have your freewill violated. Eternal life is definitely not a curse here.
God: Merciful, loving, just. He loves us so much. Everything he does is for our own good. He's a fantastic guy.
SO:
If the God above was proven to be real. If he had certain laws that had to be followed and you had to obey those laws. If he could be shown not to be a genocidal maniac and that everything he did was for our own good, and if you could gaurantee you'd get to go to Heaven, would you obey him?
Also as a side question:
If you decide you don't want to obey God, does that also automatically mean you don't want to go to Heaven as Drs seems to believe? |
_________________
Church of the SubGenius - The one true religion
Faith is what you have in things that don''t exist - Homer Simpson |
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| Scotracer Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Total posts: 1670 Location: Scotland Age: 22 Gender: Male
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Post 2:
Mon May 25, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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The Christian God? Depends what he asks of me. I wouldn't wish to worship a jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully however.
There are no redeeming features within Yahweh and as such he doesn't deserve worship. Actually - NO ONE deserves worship. The concept is totally immoral. |
_________________
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing
Every word is a prejudice
- Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Goat Site SupporterSavant
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Post 3:
Mon May 25, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| OnceConvinced wrote: | Drs made this statement in another thread:
| Quote: |
From what I see, most people don't want to go to Heaven because they don't want to obey GOD. |
Ok, lets make some assumptions here based on what Christians believe:
Heaven: Paradise. Eternal life. No sickness, sadness. All joy. You'll never run out of things to do. It will be FANTASTIC (and no you won't just be sitting around on clouds playing harps or worshiping at God's feet all the time). There is no slavery involved. You won't have your freewill violated. Eternal life is definitely not a curse here.
God: Merciful, loving, just. He loves us so much. Everything he does is for our own good. He's a fantastic guy.
SO:
If the God above was proven to be real. If he had certain laws that had to be followed and you had to obey those laws. If he could be shown not to be a genocidal maniac and that everything he did was for our own good, and if you could gaurantee you'd get to go to Heaven, would you obey him?
Also as a side question:
If you decide you don't want to obey God, does that also automatically mean you don't want to go to Heaven as Drs seems to believe? |
First, that god has to be shown to be real. It's amazing though, how much God disapproves of the exact same thing of the believer who brings up God's displeasure. |
_________________
“That''s the problem with religion: you beat your way past the clerics, fight your way through the demons, stand before the holy of holies, and when you rip away the veil, there''s nothing there but a mirror”
Owen Rowley |
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| OnceConvinced Prodigy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Total posts: 2955 Location: New Zealand Age: 42 Gender: Male
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Post 4:
Mon May 25, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotracer wrote: | The Christian God? Depends what he asks of me. I wouldn't wish to worship a jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully however.
There are no redeeming features within Yahweh and as such he doesn't deserve worship. Actually - NO ONE deserves worship. The concept is totally immoral. |
Hold on, that is not my description of the God for this poll. God in this scenario is not a genocidal maniac, but a loving, merciful and just God. Everything he does is best for mankind. (He is the God that Christians like to believe he is) |
_________________
Church of the SubGenius - The one true religion
Faith is what you have in things that don''t exist - Homer Simpson
Last edited by OnceConvinced on Mon May 25, 2009 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| OnceConvinced Prodigy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Total posts: 2955 Location: New Zealand Age: 42 Gender: Male
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Post 5:
Mon May 25, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| goat wrote: |
First, that god has to be shown to be real. |
Check out my statement in the OP:
| OP wrote: |
If the God above was proven to be real... |
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_________________
Church of the SubGenius - The one true religion
Faith is what you have in things that don''t exist - Homer Simpson |
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McCullochSite SupporterSavant
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Post 6:
Mon May 25, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| Given your whopping big assumptions, yes, of course I would obey God. |
_________________
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John |
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| OnceConvinced Prodigy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Total posts: 2955 Location: New Zealand Age: 42 Gender: Male
Usergroups:
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Post 7:
Mon May 25, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| McCulloch wrote: | | Given your whopping big assumptions, yes, of course I would obey God. |
I know it's very hard to see the God of the bible in that light, I'll admit that. |
_________________
Church of the SubGenius - The one true religion
Faith is what you have in things that don''t exist - Homer Simpson |
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Furrowed BrowSite SupporterGuru
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Post 8:
Tue May 26, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Given your assumptions.....no.
A few things I retreat from:
Worship....of anything.
Exclusive clubs.
All in one vacations.
Well meaning nice guys.
Rules.
Authority.
Being too comfortable.
Heck I don't wanna be unconditionally loved....mostly liked maybe... |
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Angel
Usergroups: None
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Post 9:
Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| OnceConvinced wrote: | Drs made this statement in another thread:
| Quote: |
From what I see, most people don't want to go to Heaven because they don't want to obey GOD. |
Ok, lets make some assumptions here based on what Christians believe:
Heaven: Paradise. Eternal life. No sickness, sadness. All joy. You'll never run out of things to do. It will be FANTASTIC (and no you won't just be sitting around on clouds playing harps or worshiping at God's feet all the time). There is no slavery involved. You won't have your freewill violated. Eternal life is definitely not a curse here.
God: Merciful, loving, just. He loves us so much. Everything he does is for our own good. He's a fantastic guy.
SO:
If the God above was proven to be real. If he had certain laws that had to be followed and you had to obey those laws. If he could be shown not to be a genocidal maniac and that everything he did was for our own good, and if you could gaurantee you'd get to go to Heaven, would you obey him? |
Yes, I would and I actually already do. I really agree with your saying that God would love us so much rather than saying that He loves us unconditionally. There can be a difference, but I also said that because I don't believe that God loves anyone unconditionally.
| OnceConvinced wrote: | Also as a side question:
If you decide you don't want to obey God, does that also automatically mean you don't want to go to Heaven as Drs seems to believe? |
I'd bet on it. |
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Angel
Usergroups: None
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Post 10:
Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Would you obey God to get to Heaven? |
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| OnceConvinced wrote: | Drs made this statement in another thread:
| Quote: |
From what I see, most people don't want to go to Heaven because they don't want to obey GOD. |
Ok, lets make some assumptions here based on what Christians believe:
Heaven: Paradise. Eternal life. No sickness, sadness. All joy. You'll never run out of things to do. It will be FANTASTIC (and no you won't just be sitting around on clouds playing harps or worshiping at God's feet all the time). There is no slavery involved. You won't have your freewill violated. Eternal life is definitely not a curse here.
God: Merciful, loving, just. He loves us so much. Everything he does is for our own good. He's a fantastic guy.
SO:
If the God above was proven to be real. If he had certain laws that had to be followed and you had to obey those laws. If he could be shown not to be a genocidal maniac and that everything he did was for our own good, and if you could gaurantee you'd get to go to Heaven, would you obey him? |
Yes, I would and I actually already do. I really agree with your saying that God would love us so much rather than saying that He loves us unconditionally. There can be a difference, but I also said that because I don't believe that God loves anyone unconditionally.
| OnceConvinced wrote: | Also as a side question:
If you decide you don't want to obey God, does that also automatically mean you don't want to go to Heaven as Drs seems to believe? |
I'd bet on it. |
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