The truth about "gods chosen"

[egyptian_cat13]

The following is all from "The Talmud", the Jewish "holy" book.

Note: The word "goyim" is a derogatory and insulting word for Gentiles. Anyone who is not a jew is a Gentile.

1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."

6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

24. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

Even in the bible, hatred for Gentiles is displayed. In the New Testament, Gentiles are referred to as "Dogs" who do not deserve to receive the teachings of "god".

[Goat]

The following is all from "The Talmud", the Jewish "holy" book.

Note: The word "goyim" is a derogatory and insulting word for Gentiles. Anyone who is not a jew is a Gentile.

1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."

6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

24. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

Even in the bible, hatred for Gentiles is displayed. In the New Testament, Gentiles are referred to as "Dogs" who do not deserve to receive the teachings of "god".

You are quoting from an anti-sementic site, that takes things out of context, and also invents things.

Other than spewing hatred, do you have a debate topic?

[cnorman18]

The following is all from "The Talmud", the Jewish "holy" book.

Oh, good, another one!

It's so much fun to expose blatant lies and bigotry. If Egyptian Cat had bothered to look around in previous threads, he'd have seen that this topic, and most of these very quotations, have been exposed before and their poster has left the forum in disgrace.

Let's start here:

Note: The word "goyim" is a derogatory and insulting word for Gentiles. Anyone who is not a jew is a Gentile.

This is a falsehood. Goy, in Hebrew, simply means "nation" and has no negative connotation at all. Indeed, the term is often used to refer to goy Yisroel, "the nation of Israel." Goyim is the plural form, and is a Hebrew idiom meaning "gentiles"; but it is no more derogatory than that word is in English.

For the record; virtually all of these "quotations" are based on the work of one I. B. Pranaitis, a late 19th-century Russian antisemite whose work as translated into English in 1939 and continues to be circulated among Jew-haters, neo-Nazis, and other bigots. There is no scholarship here, just lots of deliberate distortions and intentional misquotations and mistranslations and plain old made-up lies.

This material was thoroughly discredited more than a hundred years ago. Only antisemites refer to it today.

Even the initial reference to the Talmud as "the Jewish "holy" book" is a dead giveaway that this material is borrowed and that the borrower knows nothing about the Talmud, which runs to more than fifty folio-sized volumes in English.

1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

[moved]
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

These are out-of-context quotes that are not accidental misperceptions, but deliberate misrepresentations of the truth. They are from a conversation between two rabbis, one of whom does indeed put forth these fanatical arguments - which are effectively and definitively refuted and destroyed by the other. These ideas were included in the Talmud only to be rebutted and disavowed.

2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

Not from the Talmud, but from a commentary upon it - where it is made clear that this command applied only during one of the ancient wars of Israel against its enemies.

4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."

These two quotations are complete fabrications. No such book as "Libbre David" exists in the Talmud or anywhere in Jewish literature, and the supposed "quotes" do not exist anywhere, either. Quotations from or allusions to "Libbre David" can only be found in antisemitic books, on antisemitic websites, or on websites exposing them.

Proof positive, in short, that this material can only have come from a hate site.

6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

One of the most common and most popular false "quotations" among Jew-haters - and quite possibly the most vicious.

The gist of the matter is that a woman who was the victim of rape as a child was to be shielded from the usual consequences of premarital intercourse, and was to be considered a virgin for purposes of marriage and bride-price. In other words, a victim of sexual abuse was not to be further injured by social ostracism or other penalty.

The quotation marks are especially contemptible and dishonest. It's hard to imagine a distortion more evil and vicious than this one.

7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

Another distortion. This section speaks of relief from vows which one is unable to fulfill. It does not advocate or allow swearing falsely. We shall see something similar with the Kol Nidre prayer below.

8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

These, yet again, are not from the Talmud, but from the twelfth-century rabbi, Maimonides. The reference is to speculation about a hypothetical future time when Jews have power over non-Jews (unimaginable in his day) - that is, the Messianic Age, and did not refer to "Goyim" at all, but to idol worshippers - specifically, those who practiced human sacrifice.

10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

[moved]
19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

[moved]
20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

[moved]
23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

The book referred to in these "quotes," Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, is not a part of the Talmud but a sixteenth-century commentary. The quotations are, again, either wholly fabricated or gross distortions. The actual text says, "it is forbidden to steal even a small item from a Jew or non-Jew, from children or from adults."

Even the numbering is fabricated. Again, references like "388, 156 and "266, 1" are meaningless in the Talmud.

12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

Another total fabrication. The two words of the supposed title mean "Responses" and are part of the titles of 1500 or so books, but there is no such book in the Talmud and the quotation does not exist anywhere in Jewish literature.

There is elsewhere a teaching which says that a Jew may certainly swear that there is nothing against Gentiles in the Talmud, because it is a true oath.

13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

Another fabrication; no such quote. Even the numbering is made up. "114, 6" makes no sense in a Talmud reference.

14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

Again, no such book in the Talmud. The supposed title is the name of a 10th-century Bible commentator, and the quote and the "56-D" are fabricated.

15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

The work alluded to is not in the Talmud, but was written by an obscure 18th-century Turkish Jew who was not even a rabbi. It has no authority whatever and is little known.

16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

Another deliberate falsification of a discussion similar to that described above.

17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

No such source: no such quotation.

18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

Tosefta, once again, is not a part of the Talmud, and once again the quotations do not exist.

22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

No such source; no such quotation.

24. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

This is apparently derived from the Kol Nidre prayer, sung on the eve of Yom Kippur. The prayer asks to be released from all vows which one has made to God in the previous year, and has nothing to do with vows or contracts with other humans. It's a common canard among antisemites.

Even in the bible, hatred for Gentiles is displayed. In the New Testament, Gentiles are referred to as "Dogs" who do not deserve to receive the teachings of "god".

The tendency of the Gospel writers to put blatantly bigoted and hateful words in the mouths of Jews, not to mention those which encourage antisemitism, is well known.

This entire post was a lie and an antisemitic smear, and a very old and long-discredited one. I do not, however, think that Egyptian Cat is necessarily an antisemite; his agenda seems to be to smear all religions and insult all believers, regardless of belief.

I invite anyone who cares to to Google any of these spurious quotes, and note how many hate sites promote them. My concerns about antisemitism are neither paranoia nor fantasy. Jew-hating is still a growth enterprise.

[Easyrider]

The tendency of the Gospel writers to put blatantly bigoted and hateful words in the mouths of Jews....

Where's the evidence they "put blatantly bigoted and hateful words in the mouths of Jews"? Do you think Jewish people never say hateful things? I've been alive a long time and heard them turn the air blue with off-color remarks - many hateful - and I've heard them say a lot of nice things too. They're not any better or worse than anyone else at doing that, though, and virtually all races of people have their negative moments.

As far as the Gospels being anti-semitic, that's an urban myth. An honest look at the New Testament compared to the Old Testament shows why it's a disengenuous claim.

First,

The most sacred work of the Jewish community, the Torah, records Moses calling his people "stiff-necked" and "rebellious."

I count no less than eight historical allusions by Moses in Deuteronomy 1-4 of Israel's absolute defiance of their God. Moses concludes the Torah by stating that he knows that Israel will disobey the Holy One and break the covenant after he is gone. Moses is first in a succession of Jewish prophets who do this. Isaiah call the Jews "Sodomites;" Jeremiah likens them to "a wild ass in heat;" Ezekiel and Hosea classify them as "adultresses;" and Amos likens them to a "father and son who use the same girl." Passages in the Old Testament are replete with prophetic discourses objecting to Israel's profanation of her holy calling. And, yet, I am not aware that the Torah or Old Testament has ever been labeled "anti Jewish." Why? We recognize these struggles as an intra-Jewish religious tension in an attempt to aid Israel toward the goal of her high calling; not to proclaim Israel as the worst people on earth.

Approaching the New Testament

We must approach the New Testament in the same light. The Gospels were written within the context of Judaism. We must recognize this if we are to understand and appreciate them fully. The main subject, Yeshua, was a Jew. The disciples were Jews. His opponents were Jews. The main themes of divergence were Jewish. The sources are Jewish and the authors of the New Testament, with the possible exception of Luke, were Jews.

All the earmarks of an intra-Jewish struggle are present. Yeshua is portrayed as a prophet in the succession of Jewish prophets of Israel. As the prophets were rebuffed in their attempts to call the Jewish nation back to their Creator, so Yeshua is met with the same resistance. Yeshua' identity as a Jew is affirmed and reaffirmed. Jesus' ministry was almost exclusively with his own. Yeshua said, "I always taught in the synagogues or at the temple where all the Jews come together" (John 18:20). Pilate, the Roman prelate who handed Yeshua over to be crucified, recognized the situation to be a Jewish matter. He said to Yeshua, "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me."

http://www.chosen-people.com/docs/Curio ... tiSem.html

The following link takes your thesis - that the Gospels (in this case John) anti-semitic - to task. You might study up on the numerous illustrations that demonstrate that the term “Jews� must be taken in its overall context as each individual passage dictates. Just like in the Old Testament, there are “good Jews� and “bad Jews� alluded to in John. From listening to you, one would think that John and the Gospel writers paint all Jews in a bad light. That’s hardly defendable.

Conclusions from the link:

Conclusions:

1. When "Jews" is used of the hostile aristocratic leadership, it is appropriate and truthful to ascribe the primary responsibility (see John 19:11 for the relative roles of Pilate and the High Priest - "Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.") for His execution to them.

2. When "Jews" is used of the general populace, it is used in a VERY POSITIVE sense (and in some passages, in a neutral sense), but is NEVER used in an 'anti-Semitic' slur.

3. THEREFORE--to assert that John (and the wider Christian community) attributed the death of Jesus to the GENERAL POPULACE known as "Jews" is FUNDAMENTALLY MISTAKEN; and that to accuse certain first-century Jews of being 'anti-Semitic' because of some general Roman cultural trend is entirely without foundation.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/ajews.html

In fact, when John writes about who a true Jew is, he states (John chapter 1): Verse 47 - When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."

So, to John, a real Jew, a true Jew, is one in whom we find the truth.

And now John is antisemitic? No way. And if you think John or others put words in the mouths of the Jews, then prove it. Or just read above, or I'll dig out for you some more of that for you from the Tanakh.

[otseng]

Moved to Random Rambling. Please refer to Tips on starting a debate topic.

[cnorman18]

Try to focus, Easy. We can debate this later.

My objective here is to counter this guy's distortions, insults and provocations. He did the same number on the Gospels in his "Jesus sinned worse than anyone!" and "Christianity: The Enslaver of Humanity" threads - distorting and falsifying the Gospel texts to serve his insulting agenda. My remarks here were more to take the wind out of his sails than to provoke a debate with Christians. If you'll notice, his contention was that Jews hate Gentiles in the NT, and he tried to prove that from the mouth of Jesus. Are you okay with that?

You may not agree with my perspective on the NT, but that's not our immediate concern here. You called for a moderator on this guy, remember?