Did the entity who was Joshua, eventually become the Christ

[sleepyhead]

Hello,

This debate assumes that the OT, particularly the book of Zechariah is authoritative in some way.

The topic I would like to debate is whether or not the entity who became the Christ appeared on the earth previously as Joshua the high priest. I will take the affirmative view.

I interpret the below verses to indicate that the book of Zechariah teaches that Joshus was to become the messiah. How do others interpret the below passages?

ZECH 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
ZECH 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O
Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not
this a brand plucked out of the fire?
ZECH 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood
before the angel.
ZECH 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before
him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he
said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will
clothe thee with change of raiment.
ZECH 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they
set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the
angel of the LORD stood by.
ZECH 3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
ZECH 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways,
and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house,
and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk
among these that stand by.
ZECH 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows
that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will
bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

ZECH 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them
upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
ZECH 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of
hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he
shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the
LORD:

[naz]

From what I have read of the text you have provided, I understand it as the Joshua being crowned in glory of silver and gold for building a temple unto(for) the lord based on the last two passages.

I find this interesting(or odd how the person speaking is acting as if he is opposing Satan.), It reads first “and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him� and the later follows with “ZECH 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?�

Meaning Satan is suborn and even the Lord of Jerusalem rebukes thee, and that is later explained in the bible. Which book did you get this text from anyway?

[sleepyhead]

Hello naz,

The book was zecharia feom the OT. That book isn't used very often in bible discussions so it's not a surprise that you didn't realize it was there.

Thank you for your response as before I had no idea what should be emphasized. I think I'll emphasize the word "branch". What does that word mean? If we combine 3:8 and 6:12 it appears that branch would be the messiah and the entity that was Joshua would be that branch. Of course I approached these verses with a predefined belief system which involves reincarnation. How would individuals which don't believe in reincarnation interpret the above verses?

[SpiritQuickens]

Hello,

This debate assumes that the OT, particularly the book of Zechariah is authoritative in some way.

The topic I would like to debate is whether or not the entity who became the Christ appeared on the earth previously as Joshua the high priest. I will take the affirmative view.

I interpret the below verses to indicate that the book of Zechariah teaches that Joshus was to become the messiah. How do others interpret the below passages?

ZECH 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
ZECH 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O
Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not
this a brand plucked out of the fire?
ZECH 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood
before the angel.
ZECH 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before
him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he
said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will
clothe thee with change of raiment.
ZECH 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they
set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the
angel of the LORD stood by.
ZECH 3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
ZECH 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways,
and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house,
and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk
among these that stand by.
ZECH 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows
that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will
bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

ZECH 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them
upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
ZECH 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of
hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he
shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the
LORD:

Good question - Joshua in Zechariah is what we call a "type" - an object, person or event, which is later seen to have pointed toward an eschatologically elevated, but thematically similar, object, person or event. In this case, it pointed toward Christ. There is no reincarnation. man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment"(Heb. 9:27).

[sleepyhead]

Hello spiritquickens,

How do we determine when the bible is referring to a type as opposed to taking what is said literally. Why should we take the Zechariah verses as types?

With regards to the verse from Heb 9:27. Various versions of reincarnation have been believed in for a long time. God never made it clear to Abraham or Moses what the afterlife was like. People believed in reincarnation back then but neither Abrahan or Moses ever corrected them. Jesus talked in parables with regards to the afterlife. The question I have is since God had an abuindance of opportunity to tell us what the afterlife was like and to correct any misconceptions with ith regards to the afterlife such as a belief in reincarnation, does it actually make sense to you that God waited for someone to write a letter to the Hebrews, where the topic was about Christ dieing for sins, to inform us that the afterlife doesn't involve reincarnation? If it was God's intention to discredit a belief in reincarnation, which many believed in, why did he wait until the letter to the Hebrews to do it?

HEB 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with
hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to
appear in the presence of God for us:
HEB 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest
entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
HEB 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of
the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to
put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
HEB 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment:
HEB 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and
unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin
unto salvation.