Did the entity who was Joseph, eventually become the Christ

[sleepyhead]

Hello,

This debate assumes that the OT, particularly the book of Genesis is authoritative in some way.

The topic I would like to debate is whether or not the entity who became the Christ appeared on the earth previously as Joseph the son of Isaac. I will take the affirmative view.

Joseph had two dreams which I will include below:

Dream 1

GEN 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I
have dreamed:
GEN 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my
sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood
round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
GEN 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over
us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him
yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

I'm sure most of you would agree that according to the account given in the rest of the book of Genesis that this dream was fulfilled.

Dream 2

GEN 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren,
and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun
and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
GEN 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his
father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou
hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to
bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Joseph's mother had died giving birth to Benjamin. There is also no record of Jacob bowing to Joseph, in fact when he goes to Egypt Pharoah bows to him. Also notice the shuttle difference between the 1st dream where the brothers sheaf bowed to his sheaf, while in the 2nd dream they bowed to him.

It's my claim that Jacob never bowed to Joseph but rather that this dream is a prophecy that the entity that was Joseph would become the Christ.

[ahigherway]

I, for one, am all ears to hearing more!....

Blessings,
brian

[sleepyhead]

I, for one, am all ears to hearing more!....

Blessings,
brian

Hello ahigherway,

I'd be happy to tell you more. Can you ask a question so I will have something to answer. Apparently no one is actually debating me in either this topic or the earlier one on Joshua.

PS. I answered this and I clicked save as draft by mistake. Where is that message at now?

[ahigherway]

I, for one, am all ears to hearing more!....

Blessings,
brian

Hello ahigherway,

I'd be happy to tell you more. Can you ask a question so I will have something to answer. Apparently no one is actually debating me in either this topic or the earlier one on Joshua.

PS. I answered this and I clicked save as draft by mistake. Where is that message at now?

hi sleepyhead,

i would like to hear more clearly regarding the second dream. Joseph's family didn't bow to him, therefore he was reincarnated as Jesus Christ?
My current understanding is that Jesus Christ was sacrificed before the world was created...

Blessings,
brian

[sleepyhead]

hello brian,

In looking at the similarities and differences between the two dreams provided above, it appears that they don't have the same message. In the 1st dream Joseph and his brothers are represented by sheafs of corn, while in the second the brothers are represented by stars and Jacob and Rachel are the sun and moon. The sheaf would mean the physical bodies of each of the brothers and the dream was fulfilled when the brothers bowed down to Joseph. Another way of looking at it is they bowed to the rank that Joseph had attained. A comparison can be made to the requirement in the military to salute officers. In the 2nd dream stars are used to represent the brothers rather than sheafs and the stars represent the real personality of the brothers rather than just there bodies. They would bow down because they want to.

>>> Joseph's family didn't bow to him, therefore he was reincarnated as Jesus Christ?<<<

The dreams are both prophetic, the 1st concerning what would happen during the lifetime of Joseph, and the 2nd would be far in the future. He was reincarnated as the Christ because he had attained the discipline required to complete the mission.

>>>My current understanding is that Jesus Christ was sacrificed before the world was created...<<<

I don't understand how this could be.

[ahigherway]

hello brian,

In looking at the similarities and differences between the two dreams provided above, it appears that they don't have the same message. In the 1st dream Joseph and his brothers are represented by sheafs of corn, while in the second the brothers are represented by stars and Jacob and Rachel are the sun and moon. The sheaf would mean the physical bodies of each of the brothers and the dream was fulfilled when the brothers bowed down to Joseph. Another way of looking at it is they bowed to the rank that Joseph had attained. A comparison can be made to the requirement in the military to salute officers. In the 2nd dream stars are used to represent the brothers rather than sheafs and the stars represent the real personality of the brothers rather than just there bodies. They would bow down because they want to.

>>> Joseph's family didn't bow to him, therefore he was reincarnated as Jesus Christ?<<<

The dreams are both prophetic, the 1st concerning what would happen during the lifetime of Joseph, and the 2nd would be far in the future. He was reincarnated as the Christ because he had attained the discipline required to complete the mission.

>>>My current understanding is that Jesus Christ was sacrificed before the world was created...<<<

I don't understand how this could be.

Hi sleepyhead,

Thanks for clarification. Your explanation of the second dream is more or less what I was thinking. I don't agree that Christ had not obtained the necessary discipline, I guess because of what I mentioned above; that is, that Christ was actually already "perfected" before the world was created. This I perceive from Rev. 13:8-- "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The more I look in scripture, the more it seems clear that God's message of God IN man has been with us all along, it's just that He "hid" the message until the gentiles would be brought in, too. At least that's how I'm seeing things at this time..

The notion of Christ sacrificed before the creation of Adam tells me that God knew all along what would happen with Adam, and set a plan on how to save him from himself in order to become God-like in the end.

Blessings,
brian

[sleepyhead]

Hello ahigherway,

When you use the term Christ, that is actually a title rather than Jesus's last name. When you used the term Christ were you referring to Jesus?

[ahigherway]

Hello ahigherway,

When you use the term Christ, that is actually a title rather than Jesus's last name. When you used the term Christ were you referring to Jesus?

yes, Christ is a title. The title of Anointed One, and the second Adam who gives life to the world.

Blessings,
brian