Do any Christians on here think that atheists are immoral?
Many atheists and non-theists make that claim, and some have said that Christians claim to be morally superior to atheist. Is this the case? I certainly don't think I am more moral then some atheists. In fact, Christianity is a religion that doesn't say its followers are morally superior, but rather that they are flawed and are all sinners and all fall short of moral perfection and goodness.
Do Any Christians On Here Think That Atheists Are Immoral?
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Re: Do Any Christians On Here Think That Atheists Are Immora
Post #3Any given atheist can be just as moral, or even more moral, than some particular Christian (or some other theist). The issue with "morality" isn't so much with how things work out in everyday practice today (especially for those of us here in the West who all live under the heritage of Judeo-Christian principles); the problem has more to do with the theoretical framework for morality (or lack thereof) and whether atheism has any self-justifying larger principles for the ongoing maintenance and/or the development of moral principles that serve the long-term flourishing of humanity.WinePusher wrote:Do any Christians on here think that atheists are immoral?...
That said, we shouldn't forget how bad things were before the teachings of Jesus received widespread attention and support. For this, David Bentley Hart's Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies is a good read.
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Post #5
I agree with all.
But we have to be honest and acknowledge that the claim has been made or strongly implied here by a number of Christians. Maybe they are the ones that tend to get banned though.
But we have to be honest and acknowledge that the claim has been made or strongly implied here by a number of Christians. Maybe they are the ones that tend to get banned though.
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Post #6
To answer this, dont you have to find the definition of morals, and what morals are. For example, is gay marriage immoral? Is abortion immoral? Morals are odd because christians might label someone who supports gay marriage or abortion immoral, but at the same time that same christian can be immoral for infringing on someones rights to marriage and abortion.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire
Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.
- Voltaire
Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.
Post #7
I don't think gay marraige is immoral by any means, I just oppose it because I support traditional family values. I do think that abortion is murder because it is equivalent to murder, regardless of whether the fetus is a viable life or not. I think that some people who support abortion have good intentions, and are generally concerned about women's rights. These are not the grounds of immorality though.mormon boy51 wrote:To answer this, dont you have to find the definition of morals, and what morals are. For example, is gay marriage immoral? Is abortion immoral? Morals are odd because christians might label someone who supports gay marriage or abortion immoral, but at the same time that same christian can be immoral for infringing on someones rights to marriage and abortion.
The claim that I have made is not that atheists are immoral, but that there worldview lacks good reasons for one to act moral. Dostoyevski and moral philosophers such as Immanuel Kant have written on this to some extent, and the generaly conclusion is that objective moral does not exist on the secular humanist worldview. I think Fredrich Nietzhe exmplifies that point quite well.
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Post #8
But gay marriage does not harm nor does it challenge traditional family values. I don't want to close down the Indian restaurant up the road because I like Italian food.WinePusher wrote: I don't think gay marriage is immoral by any means, I just oppose it because I support traditional family values.
So do you support criminal prosecution for the mothers who seek abortions? Even the ones who had been raped? Why not?WinePusher wrote: I do think that abortion is murder because it is equivalent to murder, regardless of whether the fetus is a viable life or not.
Even people with good intentions can act immorally. Or is it that all that is required, in your view, to be moral is to have good intentions?WinePusher wrote: I think that some people who support abortion have good intentions, and are generally concerned about women's rights. These are not the grounds of immorality though.
The claim that I have made is not that theists are immoral, but that their worldview provides no good reasons for one to act morally. Good people will be good, with or without god. But if your good acts are done to store up treasures in heaven or to avoid punishment or just because God, the eternal stalker, is watching, they are no longer altruistic acts.WinePusher wrote: The claim that I have made is not that atheists are immoral, but that there worldview lacks good reasons for one to act moral.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Post #9
I am happy to see your re-conversion to christianity, as demonstrated by your post in this subforum
It challenges the future of the nuclear family, which is generally one mother and one father and a # of children. Anything that does not include these factors (such as single motherhood, foster homes, divorces, and gay marriage) should be avoided in order to preserve traditional family values.
And here's the inconsistency. Liberals want abortions for raped women, yet oppose the death penalty. The rapist, who deserves to die more then the innocent fetus, is protected by death penalty opposers.
WinePusher wrote:I don't think gay marriage is immoral by any means, I just oppose it because I support traditional family values.
McCulloch wrote:But gay marriage does not harm nor does it challenge traditional family values. I don't want to close down the Indian restaurant up the road because I like Italian food.
It challenges the future of the nuclear family, which is generally one mother and one father and a # of children. Anything that does not include these factors (such as single motherhood, foster homes, divorces, and gay marriage) should be avoided in order to preserve traditional family values.
WinePusher wrote:I do think that abortion is murder because it is equivalent to murder, regardless of whether the fetus is a viable life or not.
No, while the action is equivalent the punishment should not be. Killing a fetus is equivalent to killing a 2 yr old baby, but the mother who had the abortion should not be prosecuted because her intent is not equivalent to a murderes intent.McCulloch wrote:So do you support criminal prosecution for the mothers who seek abortions? Even the ones who had been raped? Why not?
And here's the inconsistency. Liberals want abortions for raped women, yet oppose the death penalty. The rapist, who deserves to die more then the innocent fetus, is protected by death penalty opposers.
WinePusher wrote:I think that some people who support abortion have good intentions, and are generally concerned about women's rights. These are not the grounds of immorality though.
To be moral is to have good intentions. If I slip on a bannana peel and kill a dog, it is not an immoral action because it was not my intent to do so.McCulloch wrote:Even people with good intentions can act immorally. Or is it that all that is required, in your view, to be moral is to have good intentions?
WinePusher wrote:The claim that I have made is not that atheists are immoral, but that there worldview lacks good reasons for one to act moral.
Not so. In all religions, some type of moral accountability exists. In Christianity, we are taught that we should treat otehrs with the same respect we would want to be treated. We are also taught that all humans have inherent worth and dignity. The secular humanist view lacks these, which is why life is heavily devalued in secular, communist countries.McCulloch wrote:The claim that I have made is not that theists are immoral, but that their worldview provides no good reasons for one to act morally.
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Post #10
Moderator Warning
McCulloch, please review the post Only Christians can post in this subforum. Stop posting here. Go and make the pasta.
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When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.
Sorry about that. I use the View posts since last visit feature of this site and then open each of the posts in a new browser tab. I sometimes lose track of which forum I am reading. Since otseng made me an admin, I can post in any forum, however, except for moderating and admin duties, I should not post here.WinePusher wrote: I am happy to see your re-conversion to christianity, as demonstrated by your post in this subforum
McCulloch, please review the post Only Christians can post in this subforum. Stop posting here. Go and make the pasta.
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When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.