Xianity vs Christianity

[fewwillfindit]

I am not sure if this is the proper subforum in which to be raising this issue, and I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds in doing so. I've noticed the term "Xian" being applied to Christians in various threads. It is not my intention to call out any specific individual or individuals.

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful. We do have a name by which we are called, and that is, "Christian." I am stating the obvious here, but the term means, "of Christ." We are not "of X," and we do not worship a Savior called X. We worship Christ.

To call it Xianity is to imply that the name of the One after Whom it is named isn't even worthy of mention. This also implies that He is just one of a plethora of various flavors of gods from which to choose, and ours just happens to be god-X. I understand that many promote the latter viewpoint, but Christians to not.

I would request that it become a forum-wide rule, that satirization of the names of various religions or non-religions that are represented on this forum should not be allowed, in light of the primary thrust of this forum, which is "civil and engaging debate."

After all, it would be disrespectful for theists to go around applying satirical monikers to non-theists. Instead, we call them non-theists, because that is what they choose to be called. I would ask for the same level of respect.

[cnorman18]

I am not sure if this is the proper subforum in which to be raising this issue, and I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds in doing so. I've noticed the term "Xian" being applied to Christians in various threads. It is not my intention to call out any specific individual or individuals.

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful. We do have a name by which we are called, and that is, "Christian." I am stating the obvious here, but the term means, "of Christ." We are not "of X," and we do not worship a Savior called X. We worship Christ.

To call it Xianity is to imply that the name of the One after Whom it is named isn't even worthy of mention. This also implies that He is just one of a plethora of various flavors of gods from which to choose, and ours just happens to be god-X. I understand that many promote the latter viewpoint, but Christians to not.

I would request that it become a forum-wide rule, that satirization of the names of various religions or non-religions that are represented on this forum should not be allowed, in light of the primary thrust of this forum, which is "civil and engaging debate."

After all, it would be disrespectful for theists to go around applying satirical monikers to non-theists. Instead, we call them non-theists, because that is what they choose to be called. I would ask for the same level of respect.

I hate to correct you, but on this issue I have to. I've seen this argument before, but it normally arises over the use of "Xmas" for "Christmas." I'm frankly surprised to see it on the use of "Xian" for "Christian." Neither usage is disrespectful. Some nonChristians may intend it to be, but the joke is on them; "Xian" has a long and honorable history among Christians themselves.

The "X" is not the English X, for "unknown," but the Greek X, the letter chi; the first letter of Christos, Christ. It’s also found as the second letter of Ichthus, the Greek word for “fish,� which is commonly seen written in the crude fish-symbol that was the earliest emblem of Christians. It's an early acronym for Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter, or "Jesus the Christ, of God the Son, Savior."

I first saw “Xian� on the chalkboard at Perkins School of Theology, written by a professor of theology who was also an ordained Methodist minister. He laughed at the raised eyebrows and told us that it’s a common abbreviation for “Christian� and is not at all disrespectful. I’ve also seen it used by the Episcopal Bishop of Texas back in the 60s. In informal religious conversation, it’s quite proper. Honestly, I haven't seen it in any other context except among my fellow ministers since seminary, and I was a little surprised to see it here; but I took it for granted as a proper abbreviation when I did. As far as I'm concerned, those who wish to be disrespectful to Christianity or Christians will have to find another way.

Edited to add: Another fact that also makes "Xian" a perfectly proper and respectable, not to mention respectful, abbreviation for "Christian" is worth noting: the letter X is also itself a "cross," and that is not a trivial coincidence. At one time an X was called "Christ-cross," pronounced "crisscross" (compare the pronunciation of "Christmas"), a word that is still used for a crosshatched pattern.

For etymological trivia fans like me: When entering the US at Ellis Island in years past, Jewish immigrants who were illiterate in English declined to "make their marks" on documents with the customary witnessed X, but preferred to make a circle in order to avoid using a Christian symbol. The old Yiddish word for "circle" was kikel, which explains the origin of "kike," a pejorative word for Jews that is still seen on antisemitic websites and in the mouths of bigots as an ethnic slur for "Jew."

My mother dropped me on my head when I was little. I love this stuff.

[JoeyKnothead]

I am not sure if this is the proper subforum in which to be raising this issue, and I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds in doing so. I've noticed the term "Xian" being applied to Christians in various threads. It is not my intention to call out any specific individual or individuals.

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful. We do have a name by which we are called, and that is, "Christian." I am stating the obvious here, but the term means, "of Christ." We are not "of X," and we do not worship a Savior called X. We worship Christ.

To call it Xianity is to imply that the name of the One after Whom it is named isn't even worthy of mention. This also implies that He is just one of a plethora of various flavors of gods from which to choose, and ours just happens to be god-X. I understand that many promote the latter viewpoint, but Christians to not.

I would request that it become a forum-wide rule, that satirization of the names of various religions or non-religions that are represented on this forum should not be allowed, in light of the primary thrust of this forum, which is "civil and engaging debate."

After all, it would be disrespectful for theists to go around applying satirical monikers to non-theists. Instead, we call them non-theists, because that is what they choose to be called. I would ask for the same level of respect.

I want to respond to this first by saying I can understand this angle, even if I disagree a little bit.

I try not to use it because I am aware some folks see it this way, and I try not to be just "vulgar" when I "pick on" folks.

That said, we gotta get to Post 2...

[fewwillfindit]

I appreciate your input on this, Mr. Norman. I understand what you are saying, but we do not live in a Greek society, and Greek is not the common language of contemporary humanity, nor is it of this forum.

Xmas is certainly an attempt to secularize Christmas and make it palettable to society. However, this isn't an issue with me as Christmas was an invention of Catholics, not the Bible, and was an successful attempt to enmesh Christianity with existing pagan tradition and ritual. Christian, not Xian, is an English translation of the term that was first coined in the book of Acts, and has been used ever since.

You and I are familiar enough with Greek to know that the Greek letter X is transliterated as the letter "c" in the English language. However, I would venture to say that the majority of people aren't students of the Greek language. When a non-theist consistently and repeatedly uses the term Xian rather than Christian, one must wonder why. It is not that difficult to type a few extra letters.

[JoeyKnothead]

I hate to correct you, but on this issue I have to. I've seen this argument before, but it normally arises over the use of "Xmas" for "Christmas." I'm frankly surprised to see it on the use of "Xian" for "Christian." Neither usage is disrespectful. Some nonChristians may intend it to be, but the joke is on them; "Xian" has a long and honorable history among Christians themselves.

The "X" is not the English X, for "unknown," but the Greek X, the letter chi; the first letter of Christos, Christ. It’s also found as the second letter of Ichthus, the Greek word for “fish,� which is commonly seen written in the crude fish-symbol that was the earliest emblem of Christians. It's an early acronym for Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter, or "Jesus the Christ, of God the Son, Savior."

I first saw “Xian� on the chalkboard at Perkins School of Theology, written by a professor of theology who was also an ordained Methodist minister. He laughed at the raised eyebrows and told us that it’s a common abbreviation for “Christian� and is not at all disrespectful. I’ve also seen it used by the Episcopal Bishop of Texas back in the 60s. In informal religious conversation, it’s quite proper. Honestly, I haven't seen it in any other context except among my fellow ministers since seminary, and I was a little surprised to see it here; but I took it for granted as a proper abbreviation when I did. As far as I'm concerned, those who wish to be disrespectful to Christianity or Christians will have to find another way.

Edited to add: Another fact that also makes "Xian" a perfectly proper and respectable, not to mention respectful, abbreviation for "Christian" is worth noting: the letter X is also itself a "cross," and that is not a trivial coincidence. At one time an X was called "Christ-cross," pronounced "crisscross" (compare the pronunciation of "Christmas"), a word that is still used for a crosshatched pattern.

For etymological trivia fans like me: When entering the US at Ellis Island in years past, Jewish immigrants who were illiterate in English declined to "make their marks" on documents with the customary witnessed X, but preferred to make a circle in order to avoid using a Christian symbol. The old Yiddish word for "circle" was kikel, which explains the origin of "kike," a pejorative word for Jews that is still seen on antisemitic websites and in the mouths of bigots as an ethnic slur for "Jew."

My mother dropped me on my head when I was little. I love this stuff.

I'll go to my grave thinking that if cnorman18 ever slept on his side that big brain of his would leak out his ears.

[Ooberman]

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful.

That may be, but the Xians who used it, the Chi Rho and other abbreviations hundreds and thousands of years earlier didn't.

Personally, I find it a wonderful tool to discover who is a fair-weather, weekend warrior, ignorant, luke-warm Xian and who actually knows about the history of their religion.

Fewwillfindit, how do you feel the Xians who used the X, or XP as a secret symbol to avoid persecution when burying their loved ones in the catacombs would feel about your opinion? Did you know that your early brethren used it to keep their faith alive in the face of unspeakable torture and prejudice?

How do you feel that you, in the safety of your modern home, in a Xian country, have ignored this history of the martyrs and the people who risked their lives to make sure people learned about Christ, but you would have it labeled as offensive?

I find your ignorance of your religious heritage, and then your implication that we should bow to your whim, more offensive, personally.

[fewwillfindit]

I am not sure if this is the proper subforum in which to be raising this issue, and I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds in doing so. I've noticed the term "Xian" being applied to Christians in various threads. It is not my intention to call out any specific individual or individuals.

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful. We do have a name by which we are called, and that is, "Christian." I am stating the obvious here, but the term means, "of Christ." We are not "of X," and we do not worship a Savior called X. We worship Christ.

To call it Xianity is to imply that the name of the One after Whom it is named isn't even worthy of mention. This also implies that He is just one of a plethora of various flavors of gods from which to choose, and ours just happens to be god-X. I understand that many promote the latter viewpoint, but Christians to not.

I would request that it become a forum-wide rule, that satirization of the names of various religions or non-religions that are represented on this forum should not be allowed, in light of the primary thrust of this forum, which is "civil and engaging debate."

After all, it would be disrespectful for theists to go around applying satirical monikers to non-theists. Instead, we call them non-theists, because that is what they choose to be called. I would ask for the same level of respect.

I hate to correct you, but on this issue I have to. I've seen this argument before, but it normally arises over the use of "Xmas" for "Christmas." I'm frankly surprised to see it on the use of "Xian" for "Christian." Neither usage is disrespectful. Some nonChristians may intend it to be, but the joke is on them; "Xian" has a long and honorable history among Christians themselves.

The "X" is not the English X, for "unknown," but the Greek X, the letter chi; the first letter of Christos, Christ. It’s also found as the second letter of Ichthus, the Greek word for “fish,� which is commonly seen written in the crude fish-symbol that was the earliest emblem of Christians. It's an early acronym for Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter, or "Jesus the Christ, of God the Son, Savior."

I first saw “Xian� on the chalkboard at Perkins School of Theology, written by a professor of theology who was also an ordained Methodist minister. He laughed at the raised eyebrows and told us that it’s a common abbreviation for “Christian� and is not at all disrespectful. I’ve also seen it used by the Episcopal Bishop of Texas back in the 60s. In informal religious conversation, it’s quite proper. Honestly, I haven't seen it in any other context except among my fellow ministers since seminary, and I was a little surprised to see it here; but I took it for granted as a proper abbreviation when I did. As far as I'm concerned, those who wish to be disrespectful to Christianity or Christians will have to find another way.

Edited to add: Another fact that also makes "Xian" a perfectly proper and respectable, not to mention respectful, abbreviation for "Christian" is worth noting: the letter X is also itself a "cross," and that is not a trivial coincidence. At one time an X was called "Christ-cross," pronounced "crisscross" (compare the pronunciation of "Christmas"), a word that is still used for a crosshatched pattern.

For etymological trivia fans like me: When entering the US at Ellis Island in years past, Jewish immigrants who were illiterate in English declined to "make their marks" on documents with the customary witnessed X, but preferred to make a circle in order to avoid using a Christian symbol. The old Yiddish word for "circle" was kikel, which explains the origin of "kike," a pejorative word for Jews that is still seen on antisemitic websites and in the mouths of bigots as an ethnic slur for "Jew."

My mother dropped me on my head when I was little. I love this stuff.

I appreciate your input on this, Mr. Norman. I understand what you are saying, but we do not live in a Greek society, and Greek is not the common language of contemporary humanity, nor is it of this forum.

Xmas is certainly an attempt to secularize Christmas and make it palettable to society. However, this isn't an issue with me as Christmas was an invention of Catholics, not the Bible, and was a successful attempt to enmesh Christianity with existing pagan tradition and ritual. Christian, not Xian, is an English translation of the term that was first coined in the book of Acts, and has been used ever since.

You and I are familiar enough with Greek to know that the Greek letter X is equivalent to the English letter "c," and that the Greek word, Χ�ιστιανὸν, is transliterated as christianon, and is the English word Christian. However, I would venture to say that the majority of people aren't students of the Greek language. When a non-theist consistently and repeatedly uses the term Xian and refuses to ever use the term Christian, one must wonder why. It is not that difficult to type a few extra letters. This is not Facebook or text messaging with a character limitation.

[Ooberman]

So we should dumb ourselves down because an ignorant Xian wants us to?
No thanks.

[JoeyKnothead]

So we should dumb ourselves down because an ignorant Xian wants us to?
No thanks.

Naw, that's a party foul. Fewwillfindit does not present himself as ignorant on this issue.

[cnorman18]

I am not sure if this is the proper subforum in which to be raising this issue, and I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds in doing so. I've noticed the term "Xian" being applied to Christians in various threads. It is not my intention to call out any specific individual or individuals.

I consider Xian to be a pejorative term, and I think that it is disrespectful. We do have a name by which we are called, and that is, "Christian." I am stating the obvious here, but the term means, "of Christ." We are not "of X," and we do not worship a Savior called X. We worship Christ.

To call it Xianity is to imply that the name of the One after Whom it is named isn't even worthy of mention. This also implies that He is just one of a plethora of various flavors of gods from which to choose, and ours just happens to be god-X. I understand that many promote the latter viewpoint, but Christians to not.

I would request that it become a forum-wide rule, that satirization of the names of various religions or non-religions that are represented on this forum should not be allowed, in light of the primary thrust of this forum, which is "civil and engaging debate."

After all, it would be disrespectful for theists to go around applying satirical monikers to non-theists. Instead, we call them non-theists, because that is what they choose to be called. I would ask for the same level of respect.

I hate to correct you, but on this issue I have to. I've seen this argument before, but it normally arises over the use of "Xmas" for "Christmas." I'm frankly surprised to see it on the use of "Xian" for "Christian." Neither usage is disrespectful. Some nonChristians may intend it to be, but the joke is on them; "Xian" has a long and honorable history among Christians themselves.

The "X" is not the English X, for "unknown," but the Greek X, the letter chi; the first letter of Christos, Christ. It’s also found as the second letter of Ichthus, the Greek word for “fish,� which is commonly seen written in the crude fish-symbol that was the earliest emblem of Christians. It's an early acronym for Iesous Christos, Theou Uios, Soter, or "Jesus the Christ, of God the Son, Savior."

I first saw “Xian� on the chalkboard at Perkins School of Theology, written by a professor of theology who was also an ordained Methodist minister. He laughed at the raised eyebrows and told us that it’s a common abbreviation for “Christian� and is not at all disrespectful. I’ve also seen it used by the Episcopal Bishop of Texas back in the 60s. In informal religious conversation, it’s quite proper. Honestly, I haven't seen it in any other context except among my fellow ministers since seminary, and I was a little surprised to see it here; but I took it for granted as a proper abbreviation when I did. As far as I'm concerned, those who wish to be disrespectful to Christianity or Christians will have to find another way.

Edited to add: Another fact that also makes "Xian" a perfectly proper and respectable, not to mention respectful, abbreviation for "Christian" is worth noting: the letter X is also itself a "cross," and that is not a trivial coincidence. At one time an X was called "Christ-cross," pronounced "crisscross" (compare the pronunciation of "Christmas"), a word that is still used for a crosshatched pattern.

For etymological trivia fans like me: When entering the US at Ellis Island in years past, Jewish immigrants who were illiterate in English declined to "make their marks" on documents with the customary witnessed X, but preferred to make a circle in order to avoid using a Christian symbol. The old Yiddish word for "circle" was kikel, which explains the origin of "kike," a pejorative word for Jews that is still seen on antisemitic websites and in the mouths of bigots as an ethnic slur for "Jew."

My mother dropped me on my head when I was little. I love this stuff.

I appreciate your input on this, Mr. Norman. I understand what you are saying, but we do not live in a Greek society, and Greek is not the common language of contemporary humanity, nor is it of this forum.

My seminary wasn't in Greece, either, and Greek was not the common language there.

Xmas is certainly an attempt to secularize Christmas and make it palettable to society. However, this isn't an issue with me as Christmas was an invention of Catholics, not the Bible, and was a successful attempt to enmesh Christianity with existing pagan tradition and ritual.

A lot of unsupported assertions there, some of them edging toward antiCatholic bigotry. I don't know a lot of Protestants who don't celebrate Christmas.

Christian, not Xian, is an English translation of the term that was first coined in the book of Acts, and has been used ever since.

You and I are familiar enough with Greek to know that the Greek letter X is equivalent to the English letter "c," and that the Greek word, Χ�ιστιανὸν, is transliterated as christianon, and is the English word Christian. However, I would venture to say that the majority of people aren't students of the Greek language. When a non-theist consistently and repeatedly uses the term Xian and refuses to ever use the term Christian, one must wonder why. It is not that difficult to type a few extra letters. This is not Facebook or text messaging with a character limitation.

It's a perfectly acceptable abbreviation, and has been for centuries. If you're looking for things to get offended about, don't be surprised if you find some. The nontheists here aren't writing "C'ian," and they aren't writing "Jesus freaks," either. I don't think it was meant to designate "god X," and neither do you. The term was in use long before this forum came into existence, and it's perfectly acceptable.

From the Wikipedia entry on "Xmas":

The word "Christ" and its compounds, including "Christmas", have been abbreviated in English for at least the past 1,000 years, long before the modern "Xmas" was commonly used. "Christ" was often written as "XP" or "Xt"; there are references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle as far back as AD 1021. This X and P arose as the uppercase forms of the Greek letters χ and � used in ancient abbreviations for Χ�ιστος (Greek for "Christ"), and are still widely seen in many Eastern Orthodox icons depicting Jesus Christ. The labarum, an amalgamation of the two Greek letters rendered as ☧, is a symbol often used to represent Christ in Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christian Churches.

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) and the OED Supplement have cited usages of "X-" or "Xp-" for "Christ-" as early as 1485. The terms "Xpian" and "Xtian" have also been used for "Christian". The dictionary further cites usage of "Xtianity" for "Christianity" from 1634. According to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, most of the evidence for these words comes from "educated Englishmen who knew their Greek".

In ancient Christian art, χ and χ� are abbreviations for Christ's name.[16] In many manuscripts of the New Testament and icons, X is an abbreviation for Christos, as is XC (the first and last letters in Greek, using the lunate sigma); compare IC for Jesus in Greek.

I'd call it a tempest in a teapot. There are things of substance to get upset about, but this isn't one of them. "X" for "Christ," in English, has a long and honorable history, and since it is in common use among English-speaking clergy today, I don't see any intent to offend in its use here.

Now, using "ppl" for "people" and "u" for "you" -- THOSE I find objectionable.