Ghosts,Hauntings and the Paranormal

[Squall]

I am wondering what are your views on Ghosts, Spirits, Hanutings, demonic activity, poltergeist and other such paranormal phenomenon. Do you see these things as ridiculous and imposible, probable, or are you definitely sure these things exists. If you are sure do to real life experience please share, and how do these experiences fit into your worldview?

[ST88]

"Paranormal" is an oxymoron, in my opinion. There is nothing that does not happen for "normal" reasons. Too many erstwhile paranormal experiences are easily explained, and others have scientific, if not immediately lay-comprehensible, explanations.

[Squall]

To an extent I would call paranormal or supernatural normal or natural. Because we do not fully understand such things does not make them not normal or unnatural. Perhaps words like extranormal or extranatural are more fitting. Semantics aside some things are truely unexplainable and if you take 100 extranatural events and 99 are explainable all you really need is one. Having experinced too many such events in my life I cannot brush the existence of such things aside so easily. The point of this thread however is not for me to try and convince people that such things exist. I could debate with someone post after post about it. I think perhaps without first hand experience it wouldn't do any good. I just am curious as to how other people view this topic.

[windy]

I am wondering what are your views on Ghosts, Spirits, Hanutings, demonic activity, poltergeist and other such paranormal phenomenon. Do you see these things as ridiculous and imposible, probable, or are you definitely sure these things exists. If you are sure do to real life experience please share, and how do these experiences fit into your worldview?

I think this is a really interesting subject.
I am never quick to doubt anyones beliefs on these matters.
So many things happen in our own lives that are so extra ordinary.
Since being a child I have experienced sightings of what people call
'flying saucers' I have seen many types and shapes; at different
times in my life.
I like to think of myself being a christian (not a particulaly good one)
but never the less my views on life are mainly based on christianity.
I was suprised when a christian told me that to have seen these
things I must be demon possessed.
I hope I am not; I dont believe I am,
Apparently some christians believe they are manefestations the same
as ghosts.
I see no biblical proof of this, perhaps someone could enlighten me?
The bible says i think its in mathew somewhere 'in the latter days we will see signs and wonders from the skies'
I hope I have not gone off the subject to much (I am new to this forum)
I thought i would share as you say some of my experiences as you said

[QED]

Semantics aside some things are truely unexplainable and if you take 100 extranatural events and 99 are explainable all you really need is one.

But there is a clue in the 99 explainable cases: That humans are susceptible to improper interpretations of natural phenomena. This should make us look at the one exceptional case with even more scrutiny. I suggest you think about it in a different light... This world is full of people looking for an 'edge'. The military have vast research budgets for discovering anything that will give them an edge over their enemies. In the commercial world there is an insatiable appetite for 'the next big thing'. This covers the media, leisure and entertainment industries.

In short, if there was anything 'real' and 'repeatable' about the paranormal it would have been fully militarized, and commercialized a long time ago. The closest we have gotten to this is people that peddle the fiction in order to make money out of the gullible.

If you think I'm being too skeptical, I will repeat a point I made a while ago: yes I'm a great skeptic, but despite this, if I walk through a graveyard alone on a dark night I'm going to be very jumpy. Now some might say that this proves that there are real vibes that I am picking up on. But I reply that it might turn out that I've been walking through a film-set! And I'm 100% certain I would still have felt the same amount of fear (if the set was real enough). In other words, it's all happening inside my head.

[Squall]

I suggest you think about it in a different light...

I have experinced a variety of paranormal events in my life and the first thing I do is to try and figure out what it could have been under more common explainations. Actual paranormal activity is always the last conclusion I ever want to make regarding these events. However when youve had 7 foot tall shadowy entities materialize in front of you, rough you up and vanish on a few occasions and have guests view such entities as well the reality of the paranormal is easier to digest especially over a lifetime of equally bizzare occurences.

[QED]

I have experinced a variety of paranormal events in my life and the first thing I do is to try and figure out what it could have been under more common explainations. Actual paranormal activity is always the last conclusion I ever want to make regarding these events. However when youve had 7 foot tall shadowy entities materialize in front of you, rough you up and vanish on a few occasions and have guests view such entities as well the reality of the paranormal is easier to digest especially over a lifetime of equally bizzare occurences.

Well, if anyone can prove the existence of paranormal activity, it sounds like you could! Have you ever considered getting hold of one of those camera-phones so it's always handy for taking a movie so that everyone can see what's going on? This is the whole issue really, repeatability. Honestly, I'm a great skeptic but not a cynic.

If something tangible is happening, there's a plentiful and inexpensive supply of technology that can record it these days. This is really what I was saying in my previous post. If it happens at all then it's possible to 'arrest' it in some way. The technology to do this may only have been available to a few from previous generations, but is now so widespread that we would expect to see evidence turning up all over the place. We've just witnessed this effect in the UK recently where many people captured the chilling events of the London bombings on their camera-phones as they unfolded.

[windy]

I have experinced a variety of paranormal events in my life and the first thing I do is to try and figure out what it could have been under more common explainations. Actual paranormal activity is always the last conclusion I ever want to make regarding these events. However when youve had 7 foot tall shadowy entities materialize in front of you, rough you up and vanish on a few occasions and have guests view such entities as well the reality of the paranormal is easier to digest especially over a lifetime of equally bizzare occurences.

Well, if anyone can prove the existence of paranormal activity, it sounds like you could! Have you ever considered getting hold of one of those camera-phones so it's always handy for taking a movie so that everyone can see what's going on? This is the whole issue really, repeatability. Honestly, I'm a great skeptic but not a cynic.

If something tangible is happening, there's a plentiful and inexpensive supply of technology that can record it these days. This is really what I was saying in my previous post. If it happens at all then it's possible to 'arrest' it in some way. The technology to do this may only have been available to a few from previous generations, but is now so widespread that we would expect to see evidence turning up all over the place. We've just witnessed this effect in the UK recently where many people captured the chilling events of the London bombings on their camera-phones as they unfolded.

Those of us who have had experiences would agree with you 100%
its no fun trying to make someone understand; let alone believe.
The trouble is that these things happen in such a way that no one seems to expect them to happen; that is why they are so extra ordinary.
I have often said 'I wont believe it unless I see it'
Thats when the problems start...
no-one believes you; you are a crank.
Allot of us bottle up what we see because of this.
Oneday soon someone will do as you say though I am sure..but at the risk of some bright spark saying ..its a camera trick or fault in the system etc.

[QED]

Those of us who have had experiences would agree with you 100%
its no fun trying to make someone understand; let alone believe.
The trouble is that these things happen in such a way that no one seems to expect them to happen; that is why they are so extra ordinary.

But why is it that these things nearly always happen in this way? We would have to conclude that the spooks deliberately play pranks on us. Otherwise I think it gives us a clue to the true nature of such things.

Now I know I'm sounding unsympathetic, but I'd count myself as being quite 'sensitive' to these sorts of experiences. I don't mind admitting that I easily get the 'creeps'. Even though I'm big enough to know better (five times over ) I often feel uneasy in the dark and am just as suggestible as the next person when it comes to entering so called 'haunted house'. A relative of mine lived on the premises of his Hotel which had a long history of supernatural goings on. I should add that I never experienced anything inexplicable there but was sometimes a little nervous all the same.

But this is what I've noticed... that my suggestible nature allows these things to take up residence in my thoughts. I feel 100% sure that the experience is internal. Like walking through a graveyard, our pre-conceived ideas play a part in interpreting the natural signals coming from the environment and transform them into something sinister.

Another pointer to this is what I term the "scary movie effect". Sitting comfortably before my TV set, on minute I can be totally relaxed watching an interesting program then a horror movie comes on. Same room, same evening -- but now when the movie ends I'm half expecting something nasty to jump out at me. Now, the paranormal didn't suddenly decide to come round my house and pay me a visit just because I put a movie on! But heck, I seem to be able to sense them.

Now I appreciate that there is a difference between interpreting things as being spooky when in spooky environments, and that people can also have experiences that seem to come at them from out-of-the-blue, but I think this is one and the same thing. Our subconscious is very good at picking things out from our environment without us being aware of it. Anyone who has ever suffered from Panic Attacks knows how 'real' and how overriding sensations and feelings can be even though they are unwarranted. My own accumulation of experiences from all these areas leads me to conclude that we overlook the incredible 'non linearity' of our own responses when we fall back on the paranormal as an explanation.

[windy]

Those of us who have had experiences would agree with you 100%
its no fun trying to make someone understand; let alone believe.
The trouble is that these things happen in such a way that no one seems to expect them to happen; that is why they are so extra ordinary.

But why is it that these things nearly always happen in this way? We would have to conclude that the spooks deliberately play pranks on us. Otherwise I think it gives us a clue to the true nature of such things.

Now I know I'm sounding unsympathetic, but I'd count myself as being quite 'sensitive' to these sorts of experiences. I don't mind admitting that I easily get the 'creeps'. Even though I'm big enough to know better (five times over ) I often feel uneasy in the dark and am just as suggestible as the next person when it comes to entering so called 'haunted house'. A relative of mine lived on the premises of his Hotel which had a long history of supernatural goings on. I should add that I never experienced anything inexplicable there but was sometimes a little nervous all the same.

But this is what I've noticed... that my suggestible nature allows these things to take up residence in my thoughts. I feel 100% sure that the experience is internal. Like walking through a graveyard, our pre-conceived ideas play a part in interpreting the natural signals coming from the environment and transform them into something sinister.

Another pointer to this is what I term the "scary movie effect". Sitting comfortably before my TV set, on minute I can be totally relaxed watching an interesting program then a horror movie comes on. Same room, same evening -- but now when the movie ends I'm half expecting something nasty to jump out at me. Now, the paranormal didn't suddenly decide to come round my house and pay me a visit just because I put a movie on! But heck, I seem to be able to sense them.

Now I appreciate that there is a difference between interpreting things as being spooky when in spooky environments, and that people can also have experiences that seem to come at them from out-of-the-blue, but I think this is one and the same thing. Our subconscious is very good at picking things out from our environment without us being aware of it. Anyone who has ever suffered from Panic Attacks knows how 'real' and how overriding sensations and feelings can be even though they are unwarranted. My own accumulation of experiences from all these areas leads me to conclude that we overlook the incredible 'non linearity' of our own responses when we fall back on the paranormal as an explanation.

Once again I completely concur with everything you say.
Alot of people like myself; who have had these experiences are as skeptical as most people.
I would rather be able to explain all of the experiences away as natural; but unfortunately I cant.
Science is a wonderful thing it can do wonderful things for us, but relies purely on what it can see and measure ect.
Do you say that faith doesn't exist because you cannot prove it exists scientifically?
Come to that; is faith always there to measure at that particular moment in time, if we could measure it?