Are there any prophecies in the Bible?

[notachance]

It seems to me that the go-to "proof" that the Bible is divinely inspired are prophecies.

So I was hoping that somebody would give me an example of a prophecy that might prove the supernatural nature of the Bible.

I will write below a few criteria that I think any alleged prophecy must meet in order to qualify as "evidence of supernatural nature of the Bible"

1) The prophecy must have been demonstrably written down before the event it predicts.
A prophecy is a statement about the future, not about the past.

For example, if I wrote today, in 2011, "I hereby make the prophecy that in 2008, Barack Obama will be elected President of the United States", that is NOT a prophecy, because I'm "predicting" an event that actually already happened.

Similarly, if a 350 AD manuscript (for example the Codex Sinaiticus) talked about some battle that took place in 600BC, that wouldn't be a prediction, it would be a description of something that happened almost 1000 years earlier.

2) A prophecy must have demonstrably actually been made
An example of scenario that would NOT count as a valid prophecy would one where I write down today "10 years before he died, John Lennon told an anonymous author that he would die by being shot in the head". There is no way of verifying that John Lennon ever said that, so it's not a valid prophecy.

3) A predicted event must be reliably documented.
For example, if I said "I predict that tonight I will dream about eating ice cream" and then the next day I say "The prophecy came true! I did dream about ice cream", that would not be an accurate prophecy because it was not reliably documented. Nobody other than me knows if it's actually true that I dreamed about ice-cream.

4) A prophecy must be specific enough that it cannot be adaptable to multiple scenarios that are somewhat likely to happen eventually.
For example if I wrote "There will be a war between Christians and Muslims in the next 100 years", then I'm not making a supernatural prophecy, just an educated guess given the nature of our international relations. In order for it to even be considered as a prophecy, it would have to be something like "On March 2nd 2076, the United States will begin a campaign of drone attacks in Iran, starting with a 3:30 am raid on a military base 20 miles north of Tehran".

Another example of what would not be a prophecy would be something like "the twin towers that collapsed on 9-11 will eventually be rebuilt"

5) In order for a prophecy to be considered proof of the supernatural nature of the Bible, there has to be no other reasonable way to explaining it than by supernatural means.
If you cannot prove that purely natural explanations (chance? self-fulfilling prophecy, forgery) truly cannot account for the prophecy, then your belief in the supernatural cause of the prophecy is no more than a faith statement, and if you are using that do justify your faith, you're engaging in circular logic ("I believe in this baseless claim, because it's supported by another baseless claim").

6) An accurate prophecy cannot be considered evidence of the supernatural if it is surrounded by inaccurate prophecies.
For example if I wrote today the following statements:
"Obama will be elected in 2012"
"Pawlenty will be elected in 2012"
"Romney will be elected in 2012"
"Palin will be elected in 2012"
"Gingrich will be elected in 2012"

And one of them turned out to be correct, that would prove nothing!

7) A prophecy can only be considered evidence of the supernatural if it predicts something that is extremely unlikely.
For example this chart shows that over the last 117 years, in Seattle it has rained on August 2nd 13 times. That means that there is 11.1% chance that it will rain in Seattle on August 2nd of any given year. So if I wrote the prophecy that "On Aug 2nd 2154 it will rain in Seattle", that would be an accurate prediction, but nonetheless not evidence of supernatural powers, simply evidence of the statistical fact that I had a 11.1% chance to be right.

8) The prophecy cannot be an expression of something that many people want to see happen, because the people's will is what drives the prophecy to be fulfilled in that case, and not a supernatural power.
For example, if Martin Luther King had said "I predict that one day a black man will be US President", that would not be the kind of prediction that would prove the supernatural, because in saying that, MLK would just be verbalizing a wish that was to some degree shared by millions of blacks and whites alike. It was simple social pressure from these millions that eventually caused the prophecy to be "fulfilled". If Hillary Clinton said "One day a woman will be President" she will, by saying it, inspire people to try to make that happen. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.


It's almost 3am and I am a little tired. I may have to add additional bullet points later. It may also be that there is some redundancy, and that the list could be condensed while retaining it's purpose. But I think this is a good start.

Here are my two questions:

1) Do you agree that the requirements above are reasonable, if not explain why not

2) Can you think of any Bible prophecy that meets the requirements above?

(please don't link or quote 100 different prophecies, and don't then leave it to me to look them all up and debunk them all. Start by quoting the SINGLE MOST CONCLUSIVE example of a prophecy, and we can talk about that. Once we've debated it, we can move on to additional examples)

[salvation2011]

wedding or something? I heard coverage began at 3am... I started watching at 5:30.

Anyway, the criteria you give eliminate pretty much anything from even being called a prophecy.

proph·e·cy/ˈpräfəsē/Noun
1. A prediction of what will happen in the future.
2. The faculty, function, or practice of prophesying.

Your criteria have placed confounds on the original definition of the word.

I can check back to see if you add the bullet points you referred to and to see if anyone else pulls something out of the bible to which one can apply your confounds. Someone may even answer "Because God said so" as an answer of proof. I see you are a seeker of evidence and sometimes when we seek so strictly, we confine ourselves into a place that will never have answers (then that in itself confirms your bias of an existence of an unprovable bible)... one can limit himself infinitely. There is fun in the pursuit of answers, but maybe answers arent the answer!

Let me think about it some more, maybe there is something you can apply all of these to...

[notachance]

wedding or something? I heard coverage began at 3am... I started watching at 5:30.

Anyway, the criteria you give eliminate pretty much anything from even being called a prophecy.

proph·e·cy/ˈpräfəsē/Noun
1. A prediction of what will happen in the future.
2. The faculty, function, or practice of prophesying.

Your criteria have placed confounds on the original definition of the word.

The dictionary definition of a prophecy is way too vague to apply to the kind of prediction that would prove the supernatural nature of the Bible.

Here are three examples of "prophecies" that would fit your dictionary definition:
1) I predict that if I toss a coin, heads will come up.
2) I predict that on June 1st it will rain
3) I predict the Giants will win the super-bowl

These all fit your dictionary definition of prophecy, but if I happen to be right about any of these, would that therefore be proof that I possess supernatural powers?

The bar has to be a little higher for prophecies that prove the supernatural, right?

[fredonly]

I have a friend who has successfully predicted all the superbowl winners every year since 1967. Each year, on the day before the game, he writes down his prediction in the Big Chief tablet he's always used (he was in 2nd grade in 1967). He showed me his list last week, and I verified that every single one is correct! Isn't that amazing! He has a rare gift. And now that you've seen what I've just written, you can know it's true.

(notice any bible parallels here?)

[flitzerbiest]

Anyway, the criteria you give eliminate pretty much anything from even being called a prophecy.

Not really. The criteria he gave simply rule out the possibility of natural phenomena. If prophecy is a demonstration of supernatural power, then this should not be a problem at all.

A similar test has been proposed in the realm of faith healings. A patient who is told he has 3-6 months to live (a detestable practice, by the way, and one I never engage in as a physician), but hangs on for 9 is simply a statistical anomaly, not the recipient of a miracle. Similarly, if I tell a cold sufferer, "Pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster each morning at 10:37 and on the 10th day, you will be touched by his noodly appendage and delivered from your illness", I am making a cloaked statement about the natural progression of colds, not the power of FSM.

Therefore, let God demonstrate the veracity of faith healings by healing an amputee. When natural explanations will not suffice, supernaturalism will be demonstrated. Cases! Bring me cases!

[notachance]

I have a friend who has successfully predicted all the superbowl winners every year since 1967. Each year, on the day before the game, he writes down his prediction in the Big Chief tablet he's always used (he was in 2nd grade in 1967). He showed me his list last week, and I verified that every single one is correct! Isn't that amazing! He has a rare gift. And now that you've seen what I've just written, you can know it's true.

(notice any bible parallels here?)

But actually, for it to be a parallel to the Bible, you'd have to write your post 350 years after the event you're talking about happened.

That's 19 generations.

So you wouldn't be telling me about your friend who can predict superbowl winners. You'd be telling me about the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandfather of your friend, who was able to predict superbowl winners.

lol

But kidding aside, I can't believe that not a theist has brought up a single prophecy. I honestly feel that they only bring them up in passing when there isn't time to explore them in detail!

Come on theists. Bring up a single prophecy that can only be explained by supernatural means, and you'll have made a theist out of me!

[notachance]

Salvation2011:
Your point that the limitations that I placed on the definition of "a prophecy that proves the divine nature of the Bible" are unfair because they are stricter than a basic dictionary definition, has been debunked. By me, and by flitzerbiest.

Would you like to formulate a counter-argument or bring up any additional point?

Or do you retract your statement, and admit that the standard that I expect of a supernatural prophecy is fair and legitimate?

In the latter case, can you think of any prophecy that meets my fair and legitimate standard?

I mean, what seems to be the problem? I've heard Christians say that prophecies are pretty much the ultimate proof of the supernatural authorship/inspiration of the Bible.

Why is nobody coming forward with an example for debate? I don't get it!

[Regens Küchl]

I mean, what seems to be the problem? I've heard Christians say that prophecies are pretty much the ultimate proof of the supernatural authorship/inspiration of the Bible.

Why is nobody coming forward with an example for debate? I don't get it!

Perhaps the number of christians here does not dare to engage in debate upon this issue which is together with "you have just to believe it" and "there is so much archeological evidence for the truth of the bible" the most important pillar of biblical authenticy

If so you should post your question for debate on a big christian forum (one that hopefully not immediately kicks you out for asking) and than give us the link

[Kuan]

Just a heads up but I highly doubt any ofthe christians here are going to answer this.

1. A lot of them feel like it is baiting them.

and

2. Lack of interest in the topic.

[catalyst]

Just a heads up but I highly doubt any ofthe christians here are going to answer this.

1. A lot of them feel like it is baiting them.

and

2. Lack of interest in the topic.

Hi Mormonboy, how is your missionary trip going? If nothing else, I hope you are keeping safe and well.

I digress, I cannot see why they wouldn't reply, not due to lack of interest, as their said faith depends on prophetic musings in the bible.

Gee, I don't know how many times a christian has thrust forth before me the supposed prophesy in Isaiah as to their jesus character and just recently the alleged prophetic parable of the minas, where bible jesus is alleged by christians to be the "nobleman" in the story.