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Did Jesus live a sinless life?
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notachance Offline

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Fri May 20, 2011 3:15 am  Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

Let me paint a scenario for you.

You are a full grown man, and, along with a dozen other dudes, you're invited to a dinner party.

In the middle of dinner the host takes off his clothes, wraps a towel around his groin, gets on his hands and knees, and starts crawling towards you.

He grabs your feet, takes off your shoes, and starts massaging and washing your feet. When he's done, he uses the towel around his groin (which was the only thing covering his privates) to dry off your feet - meaning that he can only do this either by completely exposing himself, or by rubbing your feet against his crotch area.

Once he's done servicing you, he moves on to the other dozen full grown male guests and performs for them the same homoerotic favor.

Now, I have nothing against homoerotic foot fetishes. To each his own. As long as nobody gets hurt, I don't care how kinky you get.

But I do have a few questions for you clean and moral Christians.

1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?

2) If the foot fetish guy was a summer camp counselor, would you take your children to his camp?

3) If he was a politician, would the foot fetish instance make you more likely or less likely to vote for him?

4) Would one of the thoughts in your head after he had finished rubbing your feet against his crotch be "Wow, what a great guy! What an inspirational guy! What a flawless guy, perfect in every way! If only every person in the world was like him, all problems would be solved! I'm going to devote my entire life to trying to emulate his values and his lifestyle"

If you're not well versed enough in the Bible to figure out what I'm getting at, please read the first few lines of John 13
Quote:

"Jesus got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded"


Obviously to me "sin" is a meaningless concept, but dear Christians, wouldn't you think that that's a sin?

If you spent an evening rubbing men's feet against your crotch while practically naked, wouldn't you feel the urge to beg forgiveness for your dirty little SIN the next day?

According to you, isn't a homoerotic footfetish sinful?

Did Jesus live a sinless life?
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zcaz Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Fri May 20, 2011 3:27 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

notachance wrote:
1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?


You are perceiving this as homosexual, when it is anything but. The thoughts of such a person without sin, would be nothing close to the intention of a sexual act. It is your own perversion which makes you, and the majority of humanity in these days to define this as some kind of a sexual practice.

So although nowadays, this is taboo to our modern culture .. or at least considered as an intimate gesture, this is due to our own perversions, however back then, it was common place for a servant to clean his masters feet in this way.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri May 20, 2011 3:38 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

zcaz wrote:
notachance wrote:
1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?


You are perceiving this as homosexual, when it is anything but. The thoughts of such a person without sin, would be nothing close to the intention of a sexual act. It is your own perversion which makes you, and the majority of humanity in these days to define this as some kind of a sexual practice.

So although nowadays, this is taboo to our modern culture .. or at least considered as an intimate gesture, this is due to our own perversions, however back then, it was common place for a servant to clean his masters feet in this way.


Yeah? Butt naked, rubbing the feet against his crotch to dry them off?

It's our perversion that prevents us from seeing the purity and beauty of a naked full grown man on his hands and knees rubbing another man's wet feet against his crotch? Is that what you're saying?

Couldn't Jesus use a towel OTHER THAN the one covering his genitals to dry off the other men's feet?

Your post reminds me of something Borat would say (I'm paraphrasing) "We wrestled without clothes on, he gave me hand relief, and he cleaned my anus, but not in a gay way".

Adorable.
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zcaz Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri May 20, 2011 3:46 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

notachance wrote:
It's our perversion that prevents us from seeing the purity and beauty of a naked full grown man on his hands and knees rubbing another man's wet feet against his crotch? Is that what you're saying?


It's our own perversion that leads us to perceive this act as an intimate one. However, anyone with knowledge of the times, or anyone of a mature mindset, would not perceive this as a homoerotic, or even an intimate act.

notachance wrote:
Couldn't Jesus use a towel OTHER THAN the one covering his genitals to dry off the other men's feet?


Well aren't you the typical materialistic, spoiled, sheltered human being. Would using another towel be beneficial, or not a waste of resources? Or would conserving the towels they did have be the more logical solution?
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notachance Offline

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Fri May 20, 2011 3:53 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

zcaz wrote:
notachance wrote:
It's our perversion that prevents us from seeing the purity and beauty of a naked full grown man on his hands and knees rubbing another man's wet feet against his crotch? Is that what you're saying?


It's our own perversion that leads us to perceive this act as an intimate one. However, anyone with knowledge of the times, or anyone of a mature mindset, would not perceive this as a homoerotic, or even an intimate act.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that getting naked and rubbing men's feet against your crotch is not an intimate or homoerotic act. To you, it's totally run of the mill, day to day regular routine stuff. If you were sure I wasn't doing it with an erotic mindset, you wouldn't mind if I did that to your teenage son?

zcaz wrote:

notachance wrote:
Couldn't Jesus use a towel OTHER THAN the one covering his genitals to dry off the other men's feet?


Well aren't you the typical materialistic, spoiled, sheltered human being. Would using another towel be beneficial, or not a waste of resources? Or would conserving the towels they did have be the more logical solution?

Ok, then couldn't Jesus NOT GET NAKED, keep his friggin clothes on, and use the one towel to dry their feet WITHOUT rubbing the feet against his crotch?
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Fri May 20, 2011 4:27 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

notachance wrote:
It's our perversion that prevents us from seeing the purity and beauty of a naked full grown man on his hands and knees rubbing another man's wet feet against his crotch? Is that what you're saying?


In this day and age, this kind of act is seen as intimate, I agree with you, but that is not how it was to I imagine everyone who lived in Israel at this time. Also, a man who is without sin, would not theological be characterized as having homoerotic thoughts.

notachance wrote:
Ok, then couldn't Jesus NOT GET NAKED, keep his friggin clothes on, and use the one towel to dry their feet WITHOUT rubbing the feet against his crotch?


What indicates Jesus was naked? It is said that he took of his OUTER clothing...you know... so as to not get them wet...and proceeded to put on a towel...
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sarabellum 
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Fri May 20, 2011 8:02 am  Hi... Reply

No.

NO

Think

Thought about it...
NO!

As to the questions...

Did Jesus live a sinless life?
Yes, I believe that is how the story goes.

Proving that idea one way or the other seems impossible?
First it would take a perfect knowledge of sin and the ability to identify if an action is sin...
Then I would have to go back in time and watch Jesus to see if he sinned in an outward (visible) fashion...
That still leaves the possibility of an impure thought?

Personally I would not hold my breath for a definitive answer on this...
The story will have to do?
(or in your case not do-NC?)

As far as an answer to the flame bait portion of your OP?

Perhaps you have nailed it?
Jesus had a foot thing?

On the other hand can you prove that he wasn't simply cleaning some dirty feet?

Ahh yes that would be impossible...

I think I read somewhere that foot washing was a custom often used to clean dirty feet back then?
Very Happy

Let me paint a scenario for you...

Historically men wore white wigs to social functions...
The english and early americans would be an example...

Obviously they were cross dressers with repressed homoerotic tendencies?
(Sorry George Washington)

Or not.
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psalm8 
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Fri May 20, 2011 9:39 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

notachance wrote:
Let me paint a scenario for you.

You are a full grown man, and, along with a dozen other dudes, you're invited to a dinner party.

In the middle of dinner the host takes off his clothes, wraps a towel around his groin, gets on his hands and knees, and starts crawling towards you.

He grabs your feet, takes off your shoes, and starts massaging and washing your feet. When he's done, he uses the towel around his groin (which was the only thing covering his privates) to dry off your feet - meaning that he can only do this either by completely exposing himself, or by rubbing your feet against his crotch area.

Once he's done servicing you, he moves on to the other dozen full grown male guests and performs for them the same homoerotic favor.

Now, I have nothing against homoerotic foot fetishes. To each his own. As long as nobody gets hurt, I don't care how kinky you get.

But I do have a few questions for you clean and moral Christians.

1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?

2) If the foot fetish guy was a summer camp counselor, would you take your children to his camp?

3) If he was a politician, would the foot fetish instance make you more likely or less likely to vote for him?

4) Would one of the thoughts in your head after he had finished rubbing your feet against his crotch be "Wow, what a great guy! What an inspirational guy! What a flawless guy, perfect in every way! If only every person in the world was like him, all problems would be solved! I'm going to devote my entire life to trying to emulate his values and his lifestyle"

If you're not well versed enough in the Bible to figure out what I'm getting at, please read the first few lines of John 13
Quote:

"Jesus got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded"


Obviously to me "sin" is a meaningless concept, but dear Christians, wouldn't you think that that's a sin?

If you spent an evening rubbing men's feet against your crotch while practically naked, wouldn't you feel the urge to beg forgiveness for your dirty little SIN the next day?

According to you, isn't a homoerotic footfetish sinful?

Did Jesus live a sinless life?


I think it is you yourself who is making something perverted out of something it was not indicated to be. Your OP says more about you then it does about Jesus. Sorry if you feel that if a man is close with a man that they have to be gay.
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notachance Offline

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Fri May 20, 2011 10:47 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

psalm8 wrote:
notachance wrote:
Let me paint a scenario for you.

You are a full grown man, and, along with a dozen other dudes, you're invited to a dinner party.

In the middle of dinner the host takes off his clothes, wraps a towel around his groin, gets on his hands and knees, and starts crawling towards you.

He grabs your feet, takes off your shoes, and starts massaging and washing your feet. When he's done, he uses the towel around his groin (which was the only thing covering his privates) to dry off your feet - meaning that he can only do this either by completely exposing himself, or by rubbing your feet against his crotch area.

Once he's done servicing you, he moves on to the other dozen full grown male guests and performs for them the same homoerotic favor.

Now, I have nothing against homoerotic foot fetishes. To each his own. As long as nobody gets hurt, I don't care how kinky you get.

But I do have a few questions for you clean and moral Christians.

1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?

2) If the foot fetish guy was a summer camp counselor, would you take your children to his camp?

3) If he was a politician, would the foot fetish instance make you more likely or less likely to vote for him?

4) Would one of the thoughts in your head after he had finished rubbing your feet against his crotch be "Wow, what a great guy! What an inspirational guy! What a flawless guy, perfect in every way! If only every person in the world was like him, all problems would be solved! I'm going to devote my entire life to trying to emulate his values and his lifestyle"

If you're not well versed enough in the Bible to figure out what I'm getting at, please read the first few lines of John 13
Quote:

"Jesus got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded"


Obviously to me "sin" is a meaningless concept, but dear Christians, wouldn't you think that that's a sin?

If you spent an evening rubbing men's feet against your crotch while practically naked, wouldn't you feel the urge to beg forgiveness for your dirty little SIN the next day?

According to you, isn't a homoerotic footfetish sinful?

Did Jesus live a sinless life?


I think it is you yourself who is making something perverted out of something it was not indicated to be. Your OP says more about you then it does about Jesus. Sorry if you feel that if a man is close with a man that they have to be gay.


Ok, so maybe I'm mistaken in interpreting it that way. If you think that rubbing men's feet against your crotch while on your hands and knees and almost naked is totally normal, then it's your prerogative. Who am I to judge.

So I'm assuming that your answer to my question number 2 would be that yes, you would most certainly put your child through a summer camp hosted by a man that got naked and rubbed men's feet against his crotch. Is that right?
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psalm8 
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Fri May 20, 2011 10:52 am  Re: Did Jesus live a sinless life? Reply

notachance wrote:
psalm8 wrote:
notachance wrote:
Let me paint a scenario for you.

You are a full grown man, and, along with a dozen other dudes, you're invited to a dinner party.

In the middle of dinner the host takes off his clothes, wraps a towel around his groin, gets on his hands and knees, and starts crawling towards you.

He grabs your feet, takes off your shoes, and starts massaging and washing your feet. When he's done, he uses the towel around his groin (which was the only thing covering his privates) to dry off your feet - meaning that he can only do this either by completely exposing himself, or by rubbing your feet against his crotch area.

Once he's done servicing you, he moves on to the other dozen full grown male guests and performs for them the same homoerotic favor.

Now, I have nothing against homoerotic foot fetishes. To each his own. As long as nobody gets hurt, I don't care how kinky you get.

But I do have a few questions for you clean and moral Christians.

1) If you were invited to a dinner party by the same guy the next week, would you go?

2) If the foot fetish guy was a summer camp counselor, would you take your children to his camp?

3) If he was a politician, would the foot fetish instance make you more likely or less likely to vote for him?

4) Would one of the thoughts in your head after he had finished rubbing your feet against his crotch be "Wow, what a great guy! What an inspirational guy! What a flawless guy, perfect in every way! If only every person in the world was like him, all problems would be solved! I'm going to devote my entire life to trying to emulate his values and his lifestyle"

If you're not well versed enough in the Bible to figure out what I'm getting at, please read the first few lines of John 13
Quote:

"Jesus got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded"


Obviously to me "sin" is a meaningless concept, but dear Christians, wouldn't you think that that's a sin?

If you spent an evening rubbing men's feet against your crotch while practically naked, wouldn't you feel the urge to beg forgiveness for your dirty little SIN the next day?

According to you, isn't a homoerotic footfetish sinful?

Did Jesus live a sinless life?


I think it is you yourself who is making something perverted out of something it was not indicated to be. Your OP says more about you then it does about Jesus. Sorry if you feel that if a man is close with a man that they have to be gay.


Ok, so maybe I'm mistaken in interpreting it that way. If you think that rubbing men's feet against your crotch while on your hands and knees and almost naked is totally normal, then it's your prerogative. Who am I to judge.

So I'm assuming that your answer to my question number 2 would be that yes, you would most certainly put your child through a summer camp hosted by a man that got naked and rubbed men's feet against his crotch. Is that right?


I have no response to your number 2. Your number 1 is terribly flawed and hypothetically created to an image of your liking, apparently.
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