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'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:26 pm  'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults Reply

Imaginary friend

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social phenomenon where a friendship or other interpersonal relationship takes place in the imagination rather than external physical reality. Imaginary friends are fictional characters created for improvisational role-playing. They often have elaborate personalities and behaviors. They may seem real to their creators, though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.

Imaginary friends are made often in childhood, sometimes in adolescence, and rarely in adulthood. They often function as tutelaries when played with by a child. They reveal, according to several theories of psychology, a child's anxieties, fears, goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations. They are, according to some children, physically indistinguishable from real people, while others say they see their imaginary friends only in their heads. There's even a third category of imaginary friend recognition: when the child doesn't see the imaginary friend at all, but can only feel his/her presence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend

G'day.

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:36 am  Re: 'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults Reply

I AM ALL I AM wrote:


1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.[/b][/color]


Speaking for myself only, having spent most of my life as a Christian I would have to say yes, God and Jesus are basically just imaginary friends. These days it frightens me when I hear family members say things like "God said to me..." Thankfully I never heard God talk to me during my time as a Christian. Come to think of it, I remember one family member claiming to have heard God's audible voice a few times. That's exceptionally worrying.

Lately I've actually started to see religion as a form of insanity. Just look at the mental gymnastics fundamentalists have to undertake to deny such things as evolution, radiometric dating, etc. Actually, most Christians I know personally just out right refuse to think of anything outside of the Bible as having any truth value at all. Not only this, but Christians (evangelicals and fundies especially) see themselves as being in a spiritual conflict. They are battling, not just their own carnal nature, but "the world" and the devil (who apparently rules the world). No wonder these Christians are weary of life and seeking the "rapture". Having once had this attitude myself during my time as a Christian, I now pity my former fellow-churchgoers. They're locked in a mental delusion, one in which their fear of an eternal hell is more than adequate to keep most of them trapped in for their whole lives.

The worrying thing is that these Christians want more political power in the US. Thankfully I'm from the UK and don't have to deal with the highly polarized US political system in which Republicans equal all that is good and holy and the Democrats represent the evil liberal secular "worldy" system that must be fought against. But I would hate to live in a world in which Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann were President (not because they're women of course, but because they're fundamentalist Christians). Look how much damage Bush did in 8 years, not just to America itself but its reputation abroad?

Again, these are just my own opinions. Obviously a Christian would disagree and say that Jesus is real and their faith is a force for good in the world. I would have said that once myself too, but thankfully now I know otherwise.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:31 am   Reply

Quote:
1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Not actually a question, but I realised after quoting it.

Quote:
2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Children grow up.

Quote:
3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
We would need research both on the kind of person one becomes believing in an imaginary friend and when they don't. Plus whether some imaginary friends are better/worse than others for the person believing and their decisions.

Are you aware that you imagine your surroundings? Stop and think how to get to the bathroom from your computer.

Quote:
4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

I'm no psychologist but that movie with russel crowe would suggest imaginary friends aren't good to have.

Quote:
5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.


I think you need to show evidence that faith in Jesus = imaginary friend.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:05 pm  Re: 'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults Reply

Varicose Brains wrote:
Speaking for myself only, having spent most of my life as a Christian I would have to say yes, God and Jesus are basically just imaginary friends. These days it frightens me when I hear family members say things like "God said to me..." Thankfully I never heard God talk to me during my time as a Christian. Come to think of it, I remember one family member claiming to have heard God's audible voice a few times. That's exceptionally worrying. ...


G'day Varicose Brains.

Thanks for the response.

Instead of "God said to me ...", it would be interesting to hear someone actually state, "My invisible imaginary friend said to me ...". Very Happy

I can comprehend your concern with family members stating that 'God' speaks to them, especially as a disembodied voice. Shocked
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:29 pm   Reply

G'day Wootah.

Thank you for the response.


Wootah wrote:
Quote:
1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Not actually a question, but I realised after quoting it.


Maybe you could elaborate on how you think it isn't a question.

Wootah wrote:
Quote:
2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Children grow up.


Well, there's no reasoning with your answer, so it leaves a lot of guess-work to attribute to it.

Do you mean that children grow up and therefore 'grow out of' such fantasies, yet christians do not ?


Wootah wrote:
Quote:
3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
We would need research both on the kind of person one becomes believing in an imaginary friend and when they don't. Plus whether some imaginary friends are better/worse than others for the person believing and their decisions.

Are you aware that you imagine your surroundings? Stop and think how to get to the bathroom from your computer.


Well, let us examine George W Bush as an example. This is an individual that has claimed belief in what is arguably invisible imaginary friends 'God'/'Jesus'. He even claimed that one of his invisible imaginary friends, 'God', wanted him to run for the presidency.

Now, do you think that allowing such an individual to be the 'commander in chief' of a sophisticated military that has the capabilities of using nuclear weapons is a 'good idea' ?


Wootah wrote:
Quote:
4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

I'm no psychologist but that movie with russel crowe would suggest imaginary friends aren't good to have.


So your reasoning is based upon "that movie with russel crowe" in it ?

I take it that you mean the movie A Beautiful Mind. Do you base your reasoning off movies often ?


Wootah wrote:
Quote:
5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.


I think you need to show evidence that faith in Jesus = imaginary friend.


Your response to the question appears to be completely misplaced. In response to your comment ...

'Jesus' can be shown to be an invisible imaginary friend for the simple fact that you cannot see him and there is no verifiable evidence that such an individual is anything other than a figment of the imagination.

The bible cannot be used for evidence based on many reasons, not the least being that it would be a fallacy of circular reasoning.

2,000 years of a non-appearance of an individual that was supposedly 'coming back' in the same generation as those that had apparently been around when he was supposedly crucified.

Can you show that 'God'/'Jesus' isn't an invisible imaginary friend ?
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:37 am   Reply

G'day.

It appears from the lack of response that there is no debate over whether 'God'/'Jesus' are invisible/imaginary friends for adults.

If this point is conceded then I suggest that the prefix of invisible/imaginary friend be applied when discussing 'God'/'Jesus'. If anyone takes offense at this, then they can be directed to this thread where they have the opportunity to present there case as to why 'God'/'Jesus' should not be identified in such a manner.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:23 am   Reply

Wootah wrote:
Quote:
1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Not actually a question, but I realised after quoting it.

Quote:
2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
Children grow up.

Quote:
3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.
We would need research both on the kind of person one becomes believing in an imaginary friend and when they don't. Plus whether some imaginary friends are better/worse than others for the person believing and their decisions.

Are you aware that you imagine your surroundings? Stop and think how to get to the bathroom from your computer.

Quote:
4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

I'm no psychologist but that movie with russel crowe would suggest imaginary friends aren't good to have.

Quote:
5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.


I think you need to show evidence that faith in Jesus = imaginary friend.

Why would they need to show that as it makes little sense and not only have you misunderstood faithfulness as faith in Jesus but you misunderstand what he meant by imaginary friend.
It is not "faith in Jesus" = imaginary friend but "Jesus" = imaginary friend.
So it would be you that needs to explain why you have faith in your imaginary friend Jesus.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:36 pm   Reply

Quote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Imaginary friend

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social phenomenon where a friendship or other interpersonal relationship takes place in the imagination rather than external physical reality. Imaginary friends are fictional characters created for improvisational role-playing. They often have elaborate personalities and behaviors. They may seem real to their creators, though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.

Imaginary friends are made often in childhood, sometimes in adolescence, and rarely in adulthood. They often function as tutelaries when played with by a child. They reveal, according to several theories of psychology, a child's anxieties, fears, goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations. They are, according to some children, physically indistinguishable from real people, while others say they see their imaginary friends only in their heads. There's even a third category of imaginary friend recognition: when the child doesn't see the imaginary friend at all, but can only feel his/her presence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend

G'day.

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

.


1.From the likes of this question you are trying to disprove the account that God really exists "Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? ".

First and for most let us look at the text that Christians hold as the word of God. If you do not agree with this first sentence I will have to remind you that you are arguing in a Christian forum,and since this is a direct attack against the existence of God let us look at what God says about him self and what he says about human beings which I believe you will find are direct contradictions to the societies we live in ,and a direct contradiction to the societies of the times when these scriptures were written.
My argument will be as follows God is not imaginary due to the reliability of Jesus Christ living.

To state that someone is an imaginary friend is to assume like previously posted to be an
Quote:
" ... fictional character(s) created for improvisational role-playing"
,and for you to say that Jesus is a fictional character is to say that Plato is also a fictional character.

I will make my case easily ,and quickly. For us to determine the reliability of old documents we take into account the number that were written, the time that it took for it to be compiled after the event, and the differences between each manuscript.

Let us just say this article from Carm.org sums up what I was just referring to.

Quote:

 by Matt Slick

The New Testament is constantly under attack and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics.  But, if the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy... and they are very consistent.

There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2

Author Date
Written Earliest Copy Approximate Time Span between original & copy Number of Copies Accuracy of Copies
Lucretius died 55 or 53 B.C.   1100 yrs 2 ----
Pliny 61-113 A.D. 850 A.D. 750 yrs 7 ----
Plato 427-347 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 yrs 7 ----
Demosthenes 4th Cent. B.C. 1100 A.D. 800 yrs 8 ----
Herodotus 480-425 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 ----
Suetonius 75-160 A.D. 950 A.D. 800 yrs 8 ----
Thucydides 460-400 B.C. 900 A.D. 1300 yrs 8 ----
Euripides 480-406 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1300 yrs 9 ----
Aristophanes 450-385 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 10 ----
Caesar 100-44 B.C. 900 A.D. 1000 10 ----
Livy 59 BC-AD 17 ---- ??? 20 ----
Tacitus circa 100 A.D. 1100 A.D. 1000 yrs 20 ----
Aristotle 384-322 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1400 49 ----
Sophocles 496-406 B.C. 1000 A.D. 1400 yrs 193 ----
Homer (Iliad) 900 B.C. 400 B.C. 500 yrs 643 95%
New
Testament 1st Cent. A.D. (50-100 A.D. 2nd Cent. A.D.
(c. 130 A.D. f.) less than 100 years 5600 99.5%
As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing.  The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure.  That is an amazing accuracy.  In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages.  The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century.  If Jesus was crucified in 30 A.D., then that means that the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years.  This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned who could have contested the writings.  In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out.  But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri 125 A.D.).  This is extremely close to the original writing date.  This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document. ...

If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper.  On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others.  The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than he does for any other ancient writing.  It is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.

 

This article is also available in: Español, 中文

1. Norman Geisler & Peter Bocchino, Unshakeable Foundations, (Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers, 2001) p. 256.
2. The above chart was adapted from three sources: 1) Christian Apologetics, by Norman Geisler, 1976, p. 307; 2) the article "Archaeology and History attest to the Reliability of the Bible," by Richard M. Fales, Ph.D., in The Evidence Bible, Compiled by Ray Comfort, Bridge-Logos Publishers, Gainesville, FL, 2001, p. 163; and 3) A Ready Defense, by Josh Mcdowell, 1993, p. 45.
3. "Deissmann was convinced that p52 was written well within the reign of Hadrian (A.D. 117-38) and perhaps even during the time of Trajan (A.D. 98-117)" (Footnote #2 found on pg. 39 of The Text of the New Testament, by Bruce M. Metzger, 2nd Ed. 1968, Oxford University Press, NY, NY). Bruce Metzger has authored more than 50 books. He holds two Masters Degrees, a Ph.D. and has been awarded several honorary doctorates. "He is past president of the Society of Biblical Literature, the International Society fo New Testament Studies, an the North American Patristic Society." -- From, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, Zondervan Publishers, 1998, Grand Rapids, MI: pg. 57.



Now that we know the new testament is historically reliable we can ,on to the historical reliability of Christ passing away and rising again from the dead.
For the full account of Lee Strobel's argument you can read The Case for Christ ,but here is the article "How Apologetics Changed My Life!"
Quote:
"I believed that God didn't create people, but that people created God out of their fear of death and desire to live forever in a utopia called heaven.

This first quote represents your current argument
Quote:
"They reveal, according to several theories of psychology...goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations.
This fairly would be called a goal called heaven that he believed people "created" in the likeness of God.

(from now on when I use quotation marks it will be from Steobel's argument)
"In my opinion, having "faith" meant you believed something even though you knew in your heart that it couldn't be true."

To summarize his article he did a lot of research and in the end came to very a different conclusion. "I came convinced by the evidence that science support the belief in a creator that look suspiciously like the God of the bible. Spurred on by my discoveries, I then turned my attention to history.
I found that Jesus ,and Jesus alone, fulfilled ancient messianic prophecies against all mathematical odds. I concluded that the New Testament is rooted in eyewitness testimony and that it passes the tests that historians routinely use to determine reliability and I learned that the Bible has been passed down through the ages with remarkable fidelity.
However, the pivotal issue for me is the resurrection of Jesus. Anyone can claim to be the son of God, as Jesus clearly did. The question was whether Jesus could back up that assertion by miraculously returning from the dead.
... the facts built a convincing and compelling case. Jesus' death by crucifixion is as certain as anything in the ancient world. The accounts of his resurrection are too early to be the product of legendary development. Even the enemies of Jesus conceded that his tomb was empty on Easter morning. And the eyewitness encounters with the risen Jesus cannot be Explained away as mere hallucinations or wishful thinking.
... And as someone trained in journalism and law, I felt I had no choice but to respond to the facts."

Now Lee Strobel makes a good Case for Christ here ,and I know from this article he believes Christ not to be imaginary ,but rather very real indeed.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:20 am   Reply

G'day Honey.Roasted.Lutheran.

Welcome to the forum.

As this is your first post, I will explain a couple of things to you throughout my response in relationship to this sub-forum so that you will know for future reference when responding here ...


Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
Quote:
I AM ALL I AM wrote:
Imaginary friend

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social phenomenon where a friendship or other interpersonal relationship takes place in the imagination rather than external physical reality. Imaginary friends are fictional characters created for improvisational role-playing. They often have elaborate personalities and behaviors. They may seem real to their creators, though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.

Imaginary friends are made often in childhood, sometimes in adolescence, and rarely in adulthood. They often function as tutelaries when played with by a child. They reveal, according to several theories of psychology, a child's anxieties, fears, goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations. They are, according to some children, physically indistinguishable from real people, while others say they see their imaginary friends only in their heads. There's even a third category of imaginary friend recognition: when the child doesn't see the imaginary friend at all, but can only feel his/her presence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend

G'day.

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.


1.From the likes of this question you are trying to disprove the account that God really exists "Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? ".


Do you realise that you cannot "disprove" a negative ?

You see, I comprehend that you can point out the lack of evidence for the existence of something, yet I cannot "disprove" the existence of it.

So, no, your attempt to interpret the question is not only pointless, it is incorrect.


Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
First and for most let us look at the text that Christians hold as the word of God. If you do not agree with this first sentence I will have to remind you that you are arguing in a Christian forum, ...


I am debating, not arguing. I also recognise the rules to the sub-forum, which are provided at the link below ...

Guidelines for the C&A subforum
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9741

... and before you attempt to "remind" anyone else, I suggest you actually read them. The bible is not considered any more authoritative than any other book, no matter how you attempt to present it. Neither has it been verifiably proven to be "the word of God".

If you are going to make this claim, then as per forum rules, you are required to present evidence to support the claim ...


Debate Forum Intro and Rules
5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not make blanket statements that are not supportable by logic/evidence.

... and what constitutes evidence can be seen here ...

Presenting evidence
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16903

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
... and since this is a direct attack against the existence of God let us look at what God says about him self and what he says about human beings which I believe you will find are direct contradictions to the societies we live in ,and a direct contradiction to the societies of the times when these scriptures were written.


Please present verifiable evidence that is not religious promotional material that you know what "God says about him self".

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
My argument will be as follows God is not imaginary due to the reliability of Jesus Christ living.


Then you will have to firstly present verifiable evidence for the existence of the invisible/imaginary friend commonly known of as 'Jesus'.

By the way, no one has been able to do so for 2,000 years.


Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
To state that someone is an imaginary friend is to assume like previously posted to be an
Quote:
" ... fictional character(s) created for improvisational role-playing"
,and for you to say that Jesus is a fictional character is to say that Plato is also a fictional character.


Now there is a straw man. Rolling Eyes

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
I will make my case easily ,and quickly. For us to determine the reliability of old documents we take into account the number that were written, the time that it took for it to be compiled after the event, and the differences between each manuscript.

Let us just say this article from Carm.org sums up what I was just referring to.


What has this got to do with the topic ?

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
<snip article>

Now that we know the new testament is historically reliable ...


You have NOT shown that "the new testament is historically reliable" in any way, shape or form.

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
... we can ,on to the historical reliability of Christ passing away and rising again from the dead.


It hasn't been shown to have happened in 2,000 odd years, so I'm not going to be holding my breath waiting for you to do so.

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
For the full account of Lee Strobel's argument you can read The Case for Christ ,but here is the article "How Apologetics Changed My Life!"
Quote:
"I believed that God didn't create people, but that people created God out of their fear of death and desire to live forever in a utopia called heaven.

This first quote represents your current argument


NO !!!

It represents yourself.

What I type and post upon this forum represents myself.


Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
Quote:
"They reveal, according to several theories of psychology...goals and perceptions of the world through that child's conversations.
This fairly would be called a goal called heaven that he believed people "created" in the likeness of God.


This makes no sense.

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
(from now on when I use quotation marks it will be from Steobel's argument)
"In my opinion, having "faith" meant you believed something even though you knew in your heart that it couldn't be true."


Opinion is not evidence. Why are you presenting another individuals opinion as if it is evidence ?

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
To summarize his article he did a lot of research and in the end came to very a different conclusion. "I came convinced by the evidence that science support the belief in a creator that look suspiciously like the God of the bible. Spurred on by my discoveries, I then turned my attention to history.
I found that Jesus ,and Jesus alone, fulfilled ancient messianic prophecies against all mathematical odds. I concluded that the New Testament is rooted in eyewitness testimony and that it passes the tests that historians routinely use to determine reliability and I learned that the Bible has been passed down through the ages with remarkable fidelity.
However, the pivotal issue for me is the resurrection of Jesus. Anyone can claim to be the son of God, as Jesus clearly did. The question was whether Jesus could back up that assertion by miraculously returning from the dead.
... the facts built a convincing and compelling case. Jesus' death by crucifixion is as certain as anything in the ancient world. The accounts of his resurrection are too early to be the product of legendary development. Even the enemies of Jesus conceded that his tomb was empty on Easter morning. And the eyewitness encounters with the risen Jesus cannot be Explained away as mere hallucinations or wishful thinking.
... And as someone trained in journalism and law, I felt I had no choice but to respond to the facts."


More opinion presented as if it was evidence.

Honey.Roasted.Lutheran wrote:
Now Lee Strobel makes a good Case for Christ here ,and I know from this article he believes Christ not to be imaginary ,but rather very real indeed.


I don't care who Lee Strobel is or what he actually thinks, says, does or believes. It would be evidence for Lee Strobel's thoughts, words, actions and beliefs, not evidence for this topic.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:40 pm  Re: 'God'/'Jesus' - Invisible/Imaginary Friends For Adults Reply

Quote:

1. Are 'God' and 'Jesus' invisible/imaginary friends ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

2. What difference is there between children with imaginary friends and adults that believe in 'God'/'Jesus' ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

3. Should those that have invisible/imaginary friends be stopped from being in charge of countries and making decisions for the nation, including international relationships ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

4. "Some child development professionals still believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." Does a belief in invisible/imaginary friends as an adult show "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.

5. Are those that do not have invisible/imaginary friends the ones with "a serious psychiatric disorder" ? Please present your reasoning with your answer.[/b][/color]


1. Invisible yes, imaginary no. My reason for believing this likely stems from 3 things 1) My upbringing 2) The effects, which I attribute to God in my life and others (what most Christians call a "relationship") and 3) Something else that I can't describe but what I will simply call "knowing something in your heart" (which someone else might call delusional)

2. I don't know anything about having a childhood imaginary friend but if someone has an imaginary friend as an adult I suppose I would be more worried about them than a child and probably strongly suggest that they see a psychiatrist. My reasoning would be that I think its not highly unusual for some children to have an invisible friend and something they would grow out of with time.

3. If you are talking about a democratic nation then the only way to stop them is to not vote for them and I probably wouldn't vote for them. Yeah.. no, what if the imaginary friend, which I assume is some kind of coping construct, said "push the button of doom"?. Is it reasonable that all the strategic nuclear weapons in the United States are all ready to be launched at the word of only one person regardless of what they believe? (shiver)

4. Yes, do I even need a reason?

5. I am going to go out on limb and assert that all adults that have an imaginary friend have a serious psychological disorder but it doesn't necessarily follow that all people with serious psychological disorder have imaginary friends.
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