Non Religious countries do much better and are successful

[johnsweeting]

I will argue that non-religious democratic countries are the best places to live in the world. I will concentrate on Scandinavia that is all democratic and very non-religious. I live in Sweden but has also lived in USA for 8 years. Many Americans argue that if America will be less religious then everything will fall down and the society will be lost.

As you will see in my post I have one theme......If God exists (which I don't believe) he sure does hate religious countries.

Here are the richest countries in the world in GDP (gross domestic product) per person for 2011:

Ranking, Country, US$
1 Luxembourg 122,272
2 Qatar 97,967
3 Norway 96,591
4 Switzerland 84,983
5 Australia 66,984
6 United Arab Emirates 66,625
7 Denmark 63,003
8 Sweden 61,098
9 Netherlands 51,410
10 Canada 51,147
11 Singapore 50,714
12 Austria 50,504
13 Finland 50,090
14 Ireland 48,517
15 United States 48,147
16 Belgium 48,110
17 Kuwait 46,461
18 Japan 45,774
19 Germany 44,558
20 France 44,401


1. Out of the top 20 countries in the list above, 14 belong to the top 25 most atheists countries in the world. Among the countries that are not part of the top 25 non-religious country is of course USA.

Here are the top 4 non-religious countries in the world:

1. Sweden - up to 85% atheists - Sweden is leading the world in aid to "poor" countries when looking at giving aid in percent of GDP, Sweden is ranked number one in the world in IT technology, has the most women in the equivalent to the Unites States congress plus many other positive ranks.

2. Denmark - 80% atheist or agnostics. Basically has the same numbers as Sweden with the most aid to poor countries in percentage of GDP. Leader in "happiest country" in the world.

3. Norway - 72% Atheists or agnostics. Once again Norway is really similar to Sweden and Denmark in all the stats about freedom, technology and that the people are satisfied with their life.

4. Finland - 70% Atheists or agnostics. Has the highest school results of the western world in test results for math, reading (The test is called PISA)

Other countries in the top 25 most atheistic countries include:

Japan 65% atheists - Good economy histrionically and has created many high tech things

South Korea - 52% Atheists This country is growing and growing and will soon have the same GDP per capita as most western nations

Poorest countries in the world: All of these except Nepal is over 98% religious meaning less than 2% atheists or agnostics:

Ranking, Country, US$
164 Timor-Leste 649
165 Nepal 644
166 Gambia, The 620
167 Guinea-Bissau 585
168 Rwanda 585
169 Afghanistan 575
170 Mozambique 551
171 Tanzania 550
172 Togo 511
173 Central African Republic 483
174 Eritrea 473
175 Uganda 453
176 Guinea 438
177 Madagascar 428
178 Niger 428
179 Ethiopia 351
180 Malawi 350
181 Sierra Leone 347
182 Liberia 258
183 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 211
184 Burundi
185 Somalia

Note: The most religious country in the world where 99.99% are believers is in Somalia. Guess how they are doing......Worst in everything.....

In the UNDP ranking (United nations developing program) Norway is considered the number one country to live in (third most non-believers in the world after Denmark and Sweden). The country in the bottom which is also the most religious is Somalia which is considered the worst country to live in the world.


You can also look at the most religious christian countries:

Honduras - Over 85% religious - Has the most murders in the world per capita
El Salvador - Over 85% religious - Same problems as Honduras.

Some interesting facts:

This shows the most "happy" countries in the world in which Denmark (80% atheists) is on top. The religious countries are way down below. Of the top 10, 7 are in the most atheistic/agnostic countries.

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5. The Bahamas
6. Finland
7 Sweden
8. Bhutan
9. Brunei
10. Canada

Participants in the various studies were asked questions related to happiness and satisfaction with life. The meta-analysis is based on the findings of over 100 different studies around the world, which questioned 80,000 people worldwide. For this study data has also been analyzed in relation to health, wealth and access to education.

Press Freedom Index 2010- All top countries are from top 25 most atheistic countries except Ireland. USA is in place 22.
1 Finland
- Iceland
- Norway
- Netherlands
- Sweden
- Switzerland
7 Austria
8 New Zealand
9 Estonia
- Ireland
11 Denmark
- Japan

Least corrupt countries in the world from Transparency International. The most Atheistic countries on top (9 out of these 10 countries are most atheistic)

1. New Zealand
1. Denmark
1. Finland
4. Sweden
5. Singapore
6. Norway
7. Netherlands
8. Australia
8. Switzerland
10. Canada

Global Information Technology report 2011. Most advanced with IT Technology (8 out of top 10 are most atheistic in the world):

1. Sweden
Singapore
Finland
Switzerland
United States
Taiwan, China
Denmark
Canada
Norway
Korea, Rep.
10. Netherlands

Most generous countries when it comes to giving aid to poor countries (percent of GDP) - 8 out of top 10 are the most Atheistic :

Sweden – 1.12%
Norway – 1.06%
Luxembourg – 1.04%
Denmark – 0.88%
Netherlands – 0.82%
Belgium – 0.55%
Finland – 0.54%
Ireland – 0.54%
United Kingdom – 0.52%
France- 0.47%
Spain – 0.46%
Switzerland – 0.45%
Germany – 0.35%
Canada – 0.30%
Austria – 0.30%
Australia – 0.29%
New Zealand – 0.28%
Portugal – 0.23%
United States – 0.21%
Greece – 0.19%
Japan – 0.18%
Italy – 0.16%
South Korea – 0.10%

In the American debates they argue that USA gives to much aid but they give much less than other rich countries. Remember that USA is placed 15 when counting the wealth of a country (GDP per capita)

Most Peaceful countries:
The Global Peace Index (GPI) is an attempt to measure the relative position of nations' and regions' peacefulness. It is the product of Institute for Economics and Peace (IEP) and developed in consultation with an international panel of peace experts from peace institutes and think tanks with data collected and collated by the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Top Countries (9 out of 10 are on the list of most Atheistic):

1. Iceland

2 New Zealand

3 Japan

4 Denmark

5 Czech Republic

6 Austria

7 Finland

8 Canada

9 Norway

10 Slovenia

Needles to say, bottom 20 countries in the world were all very religious.


Most Religious US states. Note that is states "very religious" and not "are you religious":

Mississippi: 59 percent are very religious
Utah: 57 percent
Alabama: 56 percent
Louisiana: 54 percent

Least Religious:

Maine: 25 percent
Vermont: 23 percent are very religious
New Hampshire: 23 percent
Massachusetts: 28 percent

Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are among the poorest with low high school graduation rates and Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and Massachusetts are among the wealthiest and among the top when it comes to high school graduation rates.

I have in many forums read arguments that "non-religious" people are living an empty life and are very unethical.

Look at Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland. You people who think this, I have a question for you...where would you rather live...In a country that has creative people, on top of the world in technology, gives most to other poor countries, have most women in politics, are on top of the "happy nations" when looking at the satisfaction of life but they are not religious.

I would like you to come over to Scandinavia and debate your negative view of being non-religious to the Scandinavians.

I also want you to go over to the countries that agree with you such as El Salvador, Honduras, Greece and many other countries that agree with your view on religion (meaning they are religious). Where you you rather live. I think I know the answer. In my view all the non-religious democratic countries seem to be more creative and care for other people in the society.

If God exists he must hate religious countries and love non-religious countries when looking at the facts.

Another thought, even though I'm non-religious I'm part of the church (you become a member when you are born in Sweden), I celebrate Christmas and Easter but in the back of my head I only do it for the tradition. The majority is part of the church but like I mentioned the non-religious rate is between 75-85 percent for all Scandinavian countries. We have left the religion and we are better for it. Look at all the facts where Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland are ranked on top all of important statistics.

No rules without exception but the majority of the countries which are the most creative in the world are part of the most non-religious countries.

Please name one country in the world (except the USA) that is religious and is going places. The more religion the more misery.....No creativity...

My main point is that the facts show that being more non-religious is actually good. Of course being from a rich country will give you less reasons for caring for a religion but look at the things that these non-religious Scandinavian countries have done. Giving most to other poor countries, living the most "happy" lifeves in the world, most women in high positions in politics etc.

These things that I just wrote are arguments from religious people that non-religious people will not do (giving aid to poor countries, living satisfactory lives etc).

Also notice that I have in this thread written that non-religious democratic countries are the the best place to live. I wrote "Democratic". I don't include dictatorships such as North Korea, Vietnam, Soviet Union to be democratic. Many religious people argue that these are examples of "what non-religious countries have done". Once again, the best places for creative thinking, giving to other poor countries, having many women in top government positions, living on top of all nations in a satisfactory life are in non-religious democratic countries.

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

[ttruscott]

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

Of course I disagree and without blaming GOD's hate...Satan obviously is not concentrating on those countries to debase and defile them as he does the Christian countries.

Pretty straight forward to me; the spiritual war is here, not over there.

Peace, Ted

[connermt]

I will argue that non-religious democratic countries are the best places to live in the world. I will concentrate on Scandinavia that is all democratic and very non-religious. I live in Sweden but has also lived in USA for 8 years. Many Americans argue that if America will be less religious then everything will fall down and the society will be lost.

As you will see in my post I have one theme......If God exists (which I don't believe) he sure does hate religious countries.

Here are the richest countries in the world in GDP (gross domestic product) per person for 2011:

Ranking, Country, US$
1 Luxembourg 122,272
2 Qatar 97,967
3 Norway 96,591
4 Switzerland 84,983
5 Australia 66,984
6 United Arab Emirates 66,625
7 Denmark 63,003
8 Sweden 61,098
9 Netherlands 51,410
10 Canada 51,147
11 Singapore 50,714
12 Austria 50,504
13 Finland 50,090
14 Ireland 48,517
15 United States 48,147
16 Belgium 48,110
17 Kuwait 46,461
18 Japan 45,774
19 Germany 44,558
20 France 44,401


1. Out of the top 20 countries in the list above, 14 belong to the top 25 most atheists countries in the world. Among the countries that are not part of the top 25 non-religious country is of course USA.

Here are the top 4 non-religious countries in the world:

1. Sweden - up to 85% atheists - Sweden is leading the world in aid to "poor" countries when looking at giving aid in percent of GDP, Sweden is ranked number one in the world in IT technology, has the most women in the equivalent to the Unites States congress plus many other positive ranks.

2. Denmark - 80% atheist or agnostics. Basically has the same numbers as Sweden with the most aid to poor countries in percentage of GDP. Leader in "happiest country" in the world.

3. Norway - 72% Atheists or agnostics. Once again Norway is really similar to Sweden and Denmark in all the stats about freedom, technology and that the people are satisfied with their life.

4. Finland - 70% Atheists or agnostics. Has the highest school results of the western world in test results for math, reading (The test is called PISA)

Other countries in the top 25 most atheistic countries include:

Japan 65% atheists - Good economy histrionically and has created many high tech things

South Korea - 52% Atheists This country is growing and growing and will soon have the same GDP per capita as most western nations

Poorest countries in the world: All of these except Nepal is over 98% religious meaning less than 2% atheists or agnostics:

Ranking, Country, US$
164 Timor-Leste 649
165 Nepal 644
166 Gambia, The 620
167 Guinea-Bissau 585
168 Rwanda 585
169 Afghanistan 575
170 Mozambique 551
171 Tanzania 550
172 Togo 511
173 Central African Republic 483
174 Eritrea 473
175 Uganda 453
176 Guinea 438
177 Madagascar 428
178 Niger 428
179 Ethiopia 351
180 Malawi 350
181 Sierra Leone 347
182 Liberia 258
183 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 211
184 Burundi
185 Somalia

Note: The most religious country in the world where 99.99% are believers is in Somalia. Guess how they are doing......Worst in everything.....

In the UNDP ranking (United nations developing program) Norway is considered the number one country to live in (third most non-believers in the world after Denmark and Sweden). The country in the bottom which is also the most religious is Somalia which is considered the worst country to live in the world.


You can also look at the most religious christian countries:

Honduras - Over 85% religious - Has the most murders in the world per capita
El Salvador - Over 85% religious - Same problems as Honduras.

Some interesting facts:

This shows the most "happy" countries in the world in which Denmark (80% atheists) is on top. The religious countries are way down below. Of the top 10, 7 are in the most atheistic/agnostic countries.

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Austria
4. Iceland
5. The Bahamas
6. Finland
7 Sweden
8. Bhutan
9. Brunei
10. Canada

Participants in the various studies were asked questions related to happiness and satisfaction with life. The meta-analysis is based on the findings of over 100 different studies around the world, which questioned 80,000 people worldwide. For this study data has also been analyzed in relation to health, wealth and access to education.

Press Freedom Index 2010- All top countries are from top 25 most atheistic countries except Ireland. USA is in place 22.
1 Finland
- Iceland
- Norway
- Netherlands
- Sweden
- Switzerland
7 Austria
8 New Zealand
9 Estonia
- Ireland
11 Denmark
- Japan

Least corrupt countries in the world from Transparency International. The most Atheistic countries on top (9 out of these 10 countries are most atheistic)

1. New Zealand
1. Denmark
1. Finland
4. Sweden
5. Singapore
6. Norway
7. Netherlands
8. Australia
8. Switzerland
10. Canada

Global Information Technology report 2011. Most advanced with IT Technology (8 out of top 10 are most atheistic in the world):

1. Sweden
Singapore
Finland
Switzerland
United States
Taiwan, China
Denmark
Canada
Norway
Korea, Rep.
10. Netherlands

Most generous countries when it comes to giving aid to poor countries (percent of GDP) - 8 out of top 10 are the most Atheistic :

Sweden – 1.12%
Norway – 1.06%
Luxembourg – 1.04%
Denmark – 0.88%
Netherlands – 0.82%
Belgium – 0.55%
Finland – 0.54%
Ireland – 0.54%
United Kingdom – 0.52%
France- 0.47%
Spain – 0.46%
Switzerland – 0.45%
Germany – 0.35%
Canada – 0.30%
Austria – 0.30%
Australia – 0.29%
New Zealand – 0.28%
Portugal – 0.23%
United States – 0.21%
Greece – 0.19%
Japan – 0.18%
Italy – 0.16%
South Korea – 0.10%

In the American debates they argue that USA gives to much aid but they give much less than other rich countries. Remember that USA is placed 15 when counting the wealth of a country (GDP per capita)

Most Peaceful countries:
The Global Peace Index (GPI) is an attempt to measure the relative position of nations' and regions' peacefulness. It is the product of Institute for Economics and Peace (IEP) and developed in consultation with an international panel of peace experts from peace institutes and think tanks with data collected and collated by the Economist Intelligence Unit.

Top Countries (9 out of 10 are on the list of most Atheistic):

1. Iceland

2 New Zealand

3 Japan

4 Denmark

5 Czech Republic

6 Austria

7 Finland

8 Canada

9 Norway

10 Slovenia

Needles to say, bottom 20 countries in the world were all very religious.


Most Religious US states. Note that is states "very religious" and not "are you religious":

Mississippi: 59 percent are very religious
Utah: 57 percent
Alabama: 56 percent
Louisiana: 54 percent

Least Religious:

Maine: 25 percent
Vermont: 23 percent are very religious
New Hampshire: 23 percent
Massachusetts: 28 percent

Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are among the poorest with low high school graduation rates and Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and Massachusetts are among the wealthiest and among the top when it comes to high school graduation rates.

I have in many forums read arguments that "non-religious" people are living an empty life and are very unethical.

Look at Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland. You people who think this, I have a question for you...where would you rather live...In a country that has creative people, on top of the world in technology, gives most to other poor countries, have most women in politics, are on top of the "happy nations" when looking at the satisfaction of life but they are not religious.

I would like you to come over to Scandinavia and debate your negative view of being non-religious to the Scandinavians.

I also want you to go over to the countries that agree with you such as El Salvador, Honduras, Greece and many other countries that agree with your view on religion (meaning they are religious). Where you you rather live. I think I know the answer. In my view all the non-religious democratic countries seem to be more creative and care for other people in the society.

If God exists he must hate religious countries and love non-religious countries when looking at the facts.

Another thought, even though I'm non-religious I'm part of the church (you become a member when you are born in Sweden), I celebrate Christmas and Easter but in the back of my head I only do it for the tradition. The majority is part of the church but like I mentioned the non-religious rate is between 75-85 percent for all Scandinavian countries. We have left the religion and we are better for it. Look at all the facts where Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland are ranked on top all of important statistics.

No rules without exception but the majority of the countries which are the most creative in the world are part of the most non-religious countries.

Please name one country in the world (except the USA) that is religious and is going places. The more religion the more misery.....No creativity...

My main point is that the facts show that being more non-religious is actually good. Of course being from a rich country will give you less reasons for caring for a religion but look at the things that these non-religious Scandinavian countries have done. Giving most to other poor countries, living the most "happy" lifeves in the world, most women in high positions in politics etc.

These things that I just wrote are arguments from religious people that non-religious people will not do (giving aid to poor countries, living satisfactory lives etc).

Also notice that I have in this thread written that non-religious democratic countries are the the best place to live. I wrote "Democratic". I don't include dictatorships such as North Korea, Vietnam, Soviet Union to be democratic. Many religious people argue that these are examples of "what non-religious countries have done". Once again, the best places for creative thinking, giving to other poor countries, having many women in top government positions, living on top of all nations in a satisfactory life are in non-religious democratic countries.

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

It's no surprise that stats show the above (though stats should be taken with a grain of salt as they are all encompassing). Christianity rules based off of fear, guilt, control and money, hiding behind "love and peace" (like other religions do as well, but this is a christian forum).
Many say religion feeds on the ignorant. To a degree that's probably true, but again, not all encompassing.
Combining all that together, you get a very good possibility that the stats provided are accurate in general.
Though I'm sure those that don't come to the defense of their deity can provide other stats that show the exact opposite.
Looking at the political control the religious right is demanding in the US, it's truly frightening to consider the power (aka CONTROL) these people are trying to have over others - personal and commercial - when they can't even all agree on the same specifics of the same deity they are (supposed to be) worshipping.
Very sad.

[Jax Agnesson]

Yes, but so what?
I am an atheist. I have seen figures, published here in the UK, suggesting that people with religious faith live longer, survive illness and stress better, etc, etc. None of that persuades me that I ought to believe in God!
One must believe whatever seems to be the case.
I don't believe God exists, because it seems to me that God doesn't exist.
Even if I thought I would be better off 'believing in God' I wouldn't be able to do it.

I assume intelligent, thoughtful theists approach things in the same way. They're not going to stop 'believing' just because asurvey says atheism makes people happier.

I think being honest about what you really believe is a big contributor to happiness.

[kayky]

Before I respond to your OP, I would like to force a personal story on you since you are Swedish. A few years ago, I was diagnosed with a genetic disease that is limited to people of Scandanavian descent. I told the doctor that I have no Scandanavian ancestry. Her response was " Um... yes you do." My father was Canadian, and although he claimed to be Scottish and German, I really knew nothing about his ancestors past my great-grandparents. So I did a little research and learned that in the nineteenth century one of my paternal ancestors left Canada and moved to Montana where he married a Swedish immagrant. After she died, he took their children and returned to Canada. I am descended from his oldest son. The point I'm trying to make is "Howdy, cousin!"

On a positive note, I think a better explanation for Scandanavian success is the homogeneous nature of your population and culture.

On a negative note, it's easy to brag about how peaceful your country is when the U.S. has been left with the task of maintaining the peace.

[cnorman18]

Might we see the source for these statistics?

When I Google them, all I see is similar posts on other forums from, er, you.

From where do these numbers come?

[Autodidact]

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

Of course I disagree and without blaming GOD's hate...Satan obviously is not concentrating on those countries to debase and defile them as he does the Christian countries.

Pretty straight forward to me; the spiritual war is here, not over there.

Peace, Ted

And if a Christian, religious country does manage to be happy, peaceful and prosperous, then what would you conclude?

[Autodidact]

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

Of course I disagree and without blaming GOD's hate...Satan obviously is not concentrating on those countries to debase and defile them as he does the Christian countries.

Pretty straight forward to me; the spiritual war is here, not over there.

Peace, Ted

So we should not judge Christianity by its fruits then?

[Slopeshoulder]

If you disagree, please look at the statistics between non-religious countries and religious countries.

Of course I disagree and without blaming GOD's hate...Satan obviously is not concentrating on those countries to debase and defile them as he does the Christian countries.

Pretty straight forward to me; the spiritual war is here, not over there.

Peace, Ted

I'd soooner blame leprechuans tor mischief in ireland.
The only thing straightforward here is that this ous unfathomably rank magical thinking. Satan, LOL.

[cnorman18]

I repeat:

Might we see the source for these statistics?