No one deserves to go to Hell

[Jake]

No one deserves to go to Hell. According to the Bible, Hell is a lake of burning sulfur. It's probably several thousand degrees. Not to mention the fact that Hell must expand as more souls enter it each day, so the temperature could actually be increasing. But no matter the exact temperature of the burning lake, I'm here to argue that no one, not even Hitler, deserves Hell. Let's use Hitler as an example, because if I prove he doesn't deserve Hell, I think we can assume no one else does either.

I'll provide you with some approximated statistics. The exact numbers don't matter all that much. About eleven million people died in the Holocaust. Now, the natural life expectancy during that time period was about 65. Let's assume there was an even distribution of ages (0-65) throughout the victims of the Holocaust. About 167,000 people from each of the age groups died. So 167,000 newborns were robbed of 65 years of life, 167,000 one-year-olds were robbed of 64 years of life, and so on. So each victim was robbed of 33 years of life on average, or all of the victims were collectively robbed of 363,000,000 years of life, depending on how you want to look at it. And, of course, I haven't even accounted for the suffering caused to the Holocaust survivors (and the suffering of the dead victims BEFORE they died).

Now, it would be justifiable to rob Hitler of 363 million years of life, would it not? Unfortunately, that's completely impossible. Even if we had managed to find and execute Hitler before he died, his crime would have dwarfed the meager punishment we were able to deal out. Some might argue that he is now getting exactly what he deserves in Hell. But let's think about that for a moment.

The other day, I picked up a firework on the Fourth of July and burned by thumb. (I know, I know, it wasn't very responsible of me!) Anyway, it hurt pretty badly. I shudder to think about having that pain in every part of my body. But when I think about having that pain in my body permanently, and at several hundred times the intensity, the pain I would be enduring is inconceivable. I'm sure most people here can relate. We've all burned ourselves on hot stoves or open flames before.

Take a moment to try to grasp what "forever" means. Imagine experiencing the pain of burning your fingers on a match, except put that pain in every nerve of your body. Now multiply that pain by a few hundred times. Now imagine having to withstand that burning for ten seconds. One minute. Ten minutes. One hour. A day. A week. A year. Two years. Five years. Ten years. A hundred years. A thousand years. A million years. Five trillion years. Even a few hours could drive a person to insanity. But think about trillions of years passing by, and you are no closer to being relieved from the pain. Think of a quadrillion years times a quintillion years times a Googolplex years, feeling the burning of the sulfur as intensely as you felt it at the beginning of your torment.

Furthermore, punishment is meant to deter future crimes, and since those who are in Hell are already dead, they are being tortured pointlessly. I fail to see the purpose in this. It seems to be simply a product of God's vengeance and sadism. Although in his defense, he is immortal, and perhaps does not realize that time seems to pass more slowly for humans than it does for him. If God is immortal, then a second to him is an infinite amount of time to us, and he probably has no concept of how long forever actually is. Regardless, no one deserves Hell whether God realizes what he's doing to the damned or not.

If you try to convince me that Hitler actually deserves this punishment, a punishment of far greater torment than he ever delivered to any other humans, lasting an INFINITE amount of time longer than the mere 363 million years of life he stole, then you have indeed no moral compass. I would even categorize you as dangerous or unstable. But not even you deserve Hell. No one deserves Hell. Not the Devil, not even God, who puts people there in the first place.

I dare you to prove me wrong. I dare you to conceive of a crime that could be worthy of even a million years in Hell.

Before I open the floor to discussion, let me say that I understand some people may know in the back of their minds that Hell is wrong, but they would never admit it for fear of going there themselves. While I think it's sad that anyone could delude themselves to being so fearful, I would also ask that anyone who agrees with me, but doesn't want to admit it, not argue against me. I'm looking to debate anyone who genuinely believes some people deserve Hell. If you don't want to agree with me for fear of angering God, just push that thought further into the back of your mind and forget you ever saw this post.

Now then, let the debate begin.

[Serpent Oracle]

People like you are dangerous. Fortunately, with time, the older generations will die off and the younger generations may be properly educated and enlightened. Your words don't bother me because all I have to do is wait for atheism to spread.

Always new fools being born sadly...we just have to ensure that the theists are not permitted to spread their dangerous lies to children, like Creationism for example.
Education is one major key to success for us.
In the UK I in league with others intend to prepare a legal challenge toward the teaching of Creationism, even if Evolution is also being taught, in British schools.
Legislating to the effect that anyone found teaching it to children in any school, will be prosecuted, criminally.
Obviously Creationism is not part of the national curriculum and should not be being taught anyway..but faith schools are permitted in this nation (for now anyway) and there have been reports so it is high time to clamp down methinks and make for preventative measures.
About four years time things will be set in motion.

Thats the beginning of course...hopefully the EU will follow suit and other laws will be made to further choke the threat of organised abrahamic theism.
Before it perverts our great nations as it has done the US.
Luckily europe is fairly well immunised...thanks to education mainly.
No TV evangelists on British mainstream TV screwing vulnerable people out of their money...not yet.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...

[Serpent Oracle]

Every belief can be ridiculed and countered with an adverse interetation.

Every illogical belief unfounded on fact or supported by rationalisation...yes.

Ridiculing Christianity is like shooting fish in a barrel...too easy.

[Serpent Oracle]

But where would you put a demon like satan who is so dedicated to his evil he will not, therefore cannot ever change? What's to be done once pure evil is unleashed upon the family? Your family?

What say then?

Trying to scare Jake with talk of Satan and Demons harming his family?

How low will you go I wonder?

When will a Christian actually use reason in a debate and not resort to projecting his/her own psychosis onto others?

I find the above quoted example...particularly illuminating and disturbing.

More rope with which to hang a religion with.

Hail Satan!

*sinister laugh*

[Choir Loft]

People like you are dangerous. Fortunately, with time, the older generations will die off and the younger generations may be properly educated and enlightened. Your words don't bother me because all I have to do is wait for atheism to spread.

How many generations do you think you'll need. The Almighty is from Everlasting to Everlasting. He is eternal. Certainly longer than human pride lasts. Empires rise and fall. Those who hate God age and die themselves and He goes on.

Education and enlightenment that you speak of is propaganda and self delusion for at the core of it all is permissiveness and perpetual indulgence. Whether there is religion or not, such attitudes are self-destructive because they serve no purpose except to justify the path to perdition and damnation.

People like me are dangerous? Those who warn of present as well as eternal judgment are dangerous? Jump off a tall building why don't you? If I warn you of gravities effect and of death that awaits at the end of the fall is that dangerous on my part or yours?

The death camps of Germany and Russia and China are atheist death camps, not Christian. Yet if you had your way I have no doubt you'd shut up every believer in one of them. Dangerous?

You asked a question, you even dared to read an answer; what deed is so severe as to earn eternal damnation? You've been given the answer, yet you refuse to consider it.

Judgment implies the power to sentence. Do I have the power to do so much as slap you with a wet noodle? I do not. I have only the power to warn and I do that in the face of religious bigotry and selfish pride. If you were capable of thinking beyond your own limited understanding you'd know this. Alas for the fool's attitude for there is none righteous except himself and all who warn of danger are regarded with contempt.

But know this that out of the words of your own mouth will you be judged; either to mercy and forgiveness or to judgment and eternal punishment.

I have sought forgiveness and peace from God in the name of Jesus Christ and found it. Peace and forgiveness are dangerous to you? So be it. You will find what you seek. God will have mercy upon you if only you will humble yourself and ask for it in spirit and in truth.

A humble heart receives mercy in the Kingdom of God. A proud one receives retribution. Choose wisely.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Choir Loft]

But where would you put a demon like satan who is so dedicated to his evil he will not, therefore cannot ever change? What's to be done once pure evil is unleashed upon the family? Your family?

What say then?

When will a Christian actually use reason in a debate and not resort to projecting his/her own psychosis onto others

When will an atheist put down his religious bigotry and foolish mind to accept reason and wise advice?

All you vomit forth is delusion and hate. Can you quote any philosopher to support your fantasy? No. Can you quote any political figure? No. Can you speak of anything except your own bile? No.

Christians speak of eternal separation and that is considered evil. Christians speak of mercy and grace from God and receive invective and disdain.

Yet the fool is justified in his own eyes in order that he may continue to hide in the darkness from a righteous God. The most foolish attitude of all is the delusion that a man can hide anywhere from God. He cannot find a rock to crawl under, a building to hide inside or any clever self-justification. There is no place to hide from the eye of God.

Make peace with God while you can. If you come to Him with a humble heart He will accept your petition. He has never refused.

Unfortunately talk about humility is wasted on the foolish and the vain.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Choir Loft]

...

No one deserves Hell. Not the Devil, not even God, who puts people there in the first place.

I dare you to prove me wrong. I dare you to conceive of a crime that could be worthy of even a million years in Hell.

...

I'll try one last time just in case:

There is no crime that puts anyone in hell.

No crime in your book. Beware oh man it is not your standard that judges the world. The standard of judgment is the ten commandments and if you've even imagined breaking one of them you are guilty and deserving of hell.

He who has the greater strength is the one who passes sentence, not the weak one.

The fool imagines himself and his own standard to be supreme even as he goes down to the grave. The One who gives and enforces the law is the One whose standard is to be obeyed and which is the judgment.

The real crime is yours in that you deny anything outside your own arrogance and that too is worthy of hell.

Come to Jesus with a humble heart and ask Him for forgiveness and peace. Jesus will not deny it to anyone who seeks it.

Laugh in His face and He will ignore you even to the flames of the pit.

Choose wisely oh man for it is your own soul that is at stake.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Serpent Oracle]

When will an atheist put down his religious bigotry and foolish mind to accept reason and wise advice?

When I see some wise advice then I might listen...
All I see is psychosis expressed.

All you vomit forth is delusion and hate. Can you quote any philosopher to support your fantasy? No. Can you quote any political figure? No. Can you speak of anything except your own bile? No.

You don't think there are atheist philosophers or politicians?

Besides I rely on my own dissemination of the facts..unlike the mindless I do not need others to validate my opinions...how tragic.

And yes I truly hate your religion and your beliefs and how you present them as well...I hate all that is rotten and cancerous.

Christians speak of mercy and grace from God and receive invective and disdain.

Christianity deserves far more than disdain...you in particular are beneath contempt however.

Yet the fool is justified in his own eyes in order that he may continue to hide in the darkness from a righteous God. The most foolish attitude of all is the delusion that a man can hide anywhere from God. He cannot find a rock to crawl under, a building to hide inside or any clever self-justification. There is no place to hide from the eye of God.

I do not hide from God...It knows where I am if It exists....
It is I who calls on God to show itself...yet I hear silence in return.

Make peace with God while you can. If you come to Him with a humble heart He will accept your petition. He has never refused.

Never.

Unfortunately talk about humility is wasted on the foolish and the vain.

As are pearls cast before swine...

[Serpent Oracle]

People like me are dangerous? Those who warn of present as well as eternal judgment are dangerous? Jump off a tall building why don't you? If I warn you of gravities effect and of death that awaits at the end of the fall is that dangerous on my part or yours?

People who teach the doctrine of heaven and hell in order to engender conversion through terror are wicked people, who should quite rightly be incarcerated.

The death camps of Germany and Russia and China are atheist death camps, not Christian. Yet if you had your way I have no doubt you'd shut up every believer in one of them. Dangerous?

Atheist death camps?
What a joker.
Hitler (who was not atheist) was killing Jews and other so called non humans, not theists, for example.
The Agricultural revolution in China was about the extermination of a social classs...not theists.

Stop pedalling your stinking lies.

Shall we talk of Inquisitors? or Witch Burnings? or Holy Crusades?

Shall we talk of the persecution of homosexuals and the oppression of women?

You asked a question, you even dared to read an answer; what deed is so severe as to earn eternal damnation? You've been given the answer, yet you refuse to consider it.

He dismisses it.

But know this that out of the words of your own mouth will you be judged; either to mercy and forgiveness or to judgment and eternal punishment.

You of course don't actually know that, you just think you do.
You are a mere human being...with a faith based belief system.
Why would anyone take you seriously?

I have sought forgiveness and peace from God in the name of Jesus Christ and found it. Peace and forgiveness are dangerous to you? So be it. You will find what you seek. God will have mercy upon you if only you will humble yourself and ask for it in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is dead, long dead.
He was never God and probably never claimed to be...if he did then like you he was self deluded or in common parlance...insane.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Preaching deletrious lies.

[ttruscott]

But where would you put a demon like satan who is so dedicated to his evil he will not, therefore cannot ever change? What's to be done once pure evil is unleashed upon the family? Your family?

What say then?

Trying to scare Jake with talk of Satan and Demons harming his family?

"How low will you go I wonder?"

The point was not to scare anyone but to describe in emotional terms the war that Christians see as real and personally involving.

This question is answered only by hell to any who believes in demonism and belief and ridicule are not proof they don't exist. Believe in demons and hell is the only answer.


"How low will you go I wonder?" is an ad hominem affront and disallowed by the rules.

Peace, Ted

[otseng]

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