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Cremation Vs. Burial
Can a cremated body be resurrected?

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Moses Yoder Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:56 pm  Cremation Vs. Burial Reply

I was talking at my parents house one time about the idea that I wanted to be cremated when I die. My dad said if I ever saw a body being cremated I would never do that, which made me wonder why that is but I knew better than to pursue it. So why not get cremated? If I get cremated I could get a friend of mine to make matching wooden urns for my wife and I and build a nice little cabinet for them ahead of time unless something unexpected happened. So what do you think; can a cremated body be resurrected? Other thoughts on the matter are also welcome.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:52 pm   Reply

I don't think any form of body disposal precludes ressurrection. That said, I prefer what I have heard is the traditional rabbinic burial. In that the body is layed out on a slam in a crypt of mosoleum and allowed to naturally decompose. After a year, the bones are collected, boxed up and stacked with ones ancesters. There are several pluses to this method. It provides a memorial that is hard to accidentally destroy. It saves space. the box is only as long as a femur the longest bone and the slab is recycled. No violence is required. In creamation, the bones are crushed to powder. Finally, it sustains family ties. So, that is my sales pitch.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:34 pm   Reply

I have prepaid my own burial by cremation.
Not only because cremation is the cheapest and because I think a "regular" in the ground burial is outrageously expensive.
Having prepaid my burial means there is no expense for my family for it, nor is the stress of having to make a funeral decision added to their grief once I have crossed over.
My ashes will be scattered.

There is, however, an even more important reason for the cremation.
Nobody would be able to desecrate my grave. Not that I would care personally - I won`t be in that grave, in that decomposing body. But, having been to numerous places where massive grave desecrations/destructions took place, I know what that is like for the remaining loved ones of the departed people!
I do not want that to happen to my family.


But I also like the method you suggest, bluethread, it is new to me.

There are a few other creative methods which were practised by European tribal peoples looong ago, and even by some modern day neo-pagans.

Whatever way a body is buried or disposed of, none of them can prevent the resurrection...........

phoenix
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:55 pm   Reply

Tibetan Buddhists and Zoroastrians both have a tradition of exposing dead bodies on towers to the sky, where predatory birds and natural decomposition take care of the problem.

Sky Burial
Kakhma or Towers of Silence.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:14 pm   Reply

Quote:
Ezekiel 37

5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.


It seems when it comes to resurrection, there is not a whole lot that the Lord cannot do.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:25 am  Re: Cremation Vs. Burial Reply

Moses Yoder wrote:

I was talking at my parents house one time about the idea that I wanted to be cremated when I die. My dad said if I ever saw a body being cremated I would never do that, which made me wonder why that is but I knew better than to pursue it. So why not get cremated? If I get cremated I could get a friend of mine to make matching wooden urns for my wife and I and build a nice little cabinet for them ahead of time unless something unexpected happened. So what do you think; can a cremated body be resurrected? Other thoughts on the matter are also welcome.


What a gruesome subject.

Get cremated and dump the ashes out somewhere so that some poor soul doesn't have to dust your stupid urn every couple weeks. Think, man! That's why they bury people so that friends and family don't have to worry about upkeep of the dead body.

You want a shrine? A nice little cabinet THAT ALSO COLLECTS DUST and takes up space? That's why they invented cemeteries so that the dead guy would be out of the way. Put them outside somewhere so that the birds would have something to aim at. Think positive.

You don't resurrect a dead body, pal. The spirit is raised in a new body or haven't you read the Good Book? It's an owner's manual for eternity and it helps to read it now and then.

Can you imagine a resurrection like the one you describe? Some poor soul makes an ash of himself on earth and all he gets in heaven is pile of dust. He'll spend eternity hoping it doesn't rain.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Danmark 
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:44 am   Reply

The ancient notion of the soul or spirit as something separate from the body arose [ahem] from a lack of understanding. Before we understood that thoughts, that consciousness itself, came from electro-chemical reactions between neurons and thus had its basis in the physical mass of the brain, the idea that conscious comes from matter/energy was inconceivable.

When the body is dead and buried, when the brain is mush, there is no 'spirit' remaining. Doesn't matter a whit whether the brain has been roasted and macerated, or just slowly decomposed. It's gone and with it, the 'soul'.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:32 am   Reply

Danmark wrote:

The ancient notion of the soul or spirit as something separate from the body arose [ahem] from a lack of understanding. Before we understood that thoughts, that consciousness itself, came from electro-chemical reactions between neurons and thus had its basis in the physical mass of the brain, the idea that conscious comes from matter/energy was inconceivable.

When the body is dead and buried, when the brain is mush, there is no 'spirit' remaining. Doesn't matter a whit whether the brain has been roasted and macerated, or just slowly decomposed. It's gone and with it, the 'soul'.


Your premise and supports for it are mistaken. "The ancient notion" as you call it and defined well by the ancient Greek philosophies, stated that the human was a tri-part entity. It consists of body, mind and spirit. The spirit isn't separate from the body and mind, it's a part of it; hence the modern anti-metaphysical argument.

As a consequence of this basic belief, all major religions have an interpretation as to what happens to the spirit once the mind and body have died.

"If a man dies, will he live again?"

That's the ultimate question that man has asked of his destiny for eons. Additionally, it has been recognized that everything the mind and body does affects the spirit of man. Heuristic medicine parts company with traditional medicine in its basic philosophy of treating the whole body with regard to health and ailments. "The whole body must be considered", they say. To some extent, traditional western medicine is coming around to a tacit acceptance of that philosophy. Its difficult to prove when pharmaceutical companies hope to make millions by selling their potions and when government and universities kow-tow to these monied interests.

The mind, body and spirit are linked. What affects the mind affects the spirit. What the body does affects the spirit. All of religion and politics was once based upon that simple principle. Finally, the ultimate disposition of the spirit, when death claims the mind and body, comes into question.

The core of the philosophical issue is not whether man has a spirit or not, its whether man is autonomous in the universe. Humanistic philosophies fear to admit that man is not the ultimate power in the universe and that something else may affect him or part of him; that something remains out of control. That something is very near and dear to him - his eternal spirit.

The core of the issue is not whether a man may survive physical death, but who or what entities may affect his eternal destiny. In American politics, many people prefer to ignore the weighty issues that demand our attention and study. Instead they choose to bury their heads in the sand and hope they'll go away. They won't. Similarly, spiritual issues won't 'go away' simply by adopting a contrary philosophy.

They are there. The wise man will recognize it and figure out the best way to deal with it. The fool buries his head in the sand and chooses to ignore it - hoping it will go away. It doesn't.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Danmark 
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:30 pm   Reply

richardP wrote:

Danmark wrote:

The ancient notion of the soul or spirit as something separate from the body arose [ahem] from a lack of understanding. Before we understood that thoughts, that consciousness itself, came from electro-chemical reactions between neurons and thus had its basis in the physical mass of the brain, the idea that conscious comes from matter/energy was inconceivable.

When the body is dead and buried, when the brain is mush, there is no 'spirit' remaining. Doesn't matter a whit whether the brain has been roasted and macerated, or just slowly decomposed. It's gone and with it, the 'soul'.


Your premise and supports for it are mistaken. "The ancient notion" as you call it and defined well by the ancient Greek philosophies, stated that the human was a tri-part entity. It consists of body, mind and spirit. The spirit isn't separate from the body and mind, it's a part of it; hence the modern anti-metaphysical argument. ..


You say my premise for this ANCIENT idea is mistaken, yet you admit it IS an ancient idea. And that is the very point of what I wrote. It is just one more ancient attempt to fill in ignorance with religious superstition, another of Zeus's thunderbolts. Science has answered the cause of lightning, and thousands of other phenomena of the ancient world that were formerly explained by desperate resort to religious explanation. In short, it is no longer necessary to suppose the idea of a soul, since we know where conscious comes from.

If you prefer ignorance and ancient notions to the evidence of science, that is your prerogative, but it will take more than a bald choir loft assertion to make it so. The reason even religious thinkers have to admit the mind and body are linked is because they are. The body (the brain is part of the body) causes thought, just like the legs make running possible. Why hold on to ancient ideas when science provides such elegant solutions?

Just a tiny bit of reading about neuroscience should convince any person of reason. We know that drugs and trauma affect consciousness [spirit/soul]. It has been proved over and over. You can even do your own experiment with alcohol. Just don't fall out of the choir loft like Eutychus. Alcohol can numb the spirit, just like Paul's long winded preaching. Very Happy
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:45 am   Reply

Danmark wrote:

You say my premise for this ANCIENT idea is mistaken, yet you admit it IS an ancient idea. And that is the very point of what I wrote. It is just one more ancient attempt to fill in ignorance with religious superstition, another of Zeus\'s thunderbolts. Science has answered the cause of lightning, and thousands of other phenomena of the ancient world that were formerly explained by desperate resort to religious explanation. In short, it is no longer necessary to suppose the idea of a soul, since we know where conscious comes from.


To begin, you are incorrect in assuming that all ancient truths are incorrect just because they're ancient. How old are you anyway? Have you graduated from High School yet? Are you still playing with your brand new iPhone - whatever version is newest? Try reading. I know its an ancient art, but its worth a try now and then. NEW is not necessarily true or good just because its new. Old is not necessarily bad or incorrect just because its old. Tell your parents that they're no good because they're old. I'd like to learn their response.

"A great value of antiquity lies in the fact that its writings are the only ones that modern men still read with exactness."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Ancient religious explanations gave rise to philosophy, which in turn formed the logical basis of every legitimate institution of the modern world from politics to science. Did you miss your history class when they covered that subject? Political science class would have mentioned that as well as language arts. The history and science of modern civilization rests on the firm ground of ANCIENT religious and philosophical reasoning. We suffer from political disorientation in America today primarily because of a lack of understanding of the philosophical and logical basis of government, the proper employment of science and because we have forgotten God.

"Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge which is power; religion gives man wisdom which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values. The two are not rivals. They are complementary. Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling irrationalism and paralyzing obscurantism. Religion prevents science from falling into the marsh of obsolete materialism and moral nihilism."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"The reason the Russian people suffered so much is because they forgot God."
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

When you divorce religion from science, the resulting aberrations of governmental policy can be disasterous. One such example I can point to is the US government's 1940's imprisonment of Japanese Americans, genocide against Native Americans and the enslavement of the African race. Another example is German(*) self-justification of the 1940's mass murder of Jews, political malcontents, homosexuals, and handicapped persons. Russian(*) gulags, Chinese(*) murder of its own people in the 1960's and the Japanese(*) rape of Nanking in 1937 are additional examples. I could go on forever with examples, but the main point is Kings' reflection that religion restrains the abuse of science while science keeps religion rational. The two disciplines are a mated pair.

(*) Atheist governments, by the way.

If you prefer ignorance and ancient notions to the evidence of science, that is your prerogative, but it will take more than a bald choir loft assertion to make it so.

What 'evidence' are you referring to, sir? That mind and body and soul are one? I, as well as philosophy, agree with that point.

Just a tiny bit of reading about neuroscience should convince any person of reason. We know that drugs and trauma affect consciousness [spirit/soul]. It has been proved over and over. You can even do your own experiment with alcohol. Just don\'t fall out of the choir loft like Eutychus. Alcohol can numb the spirit, just like Paul\'s long winded preaching.

Your misplaced references to neurological behavior only mentions the affects of mind altering drugs. What is your point?

Drugs and trauma affect mind and body, which in turn affect the spirit. I'm not arguing that point at all.

Eutychus was disinterested in the truths being taught by St. Paul. They were beyond his childish understanding. Because of that he slept and fell out of the window. Eutychus was a child. Are you?

Beware lest you sleep and miss some important point that may cost you everything you hold dear. You seek excuses to satisfy your own lusts, not truth.

"It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions - especially selfish ones."
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
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