Please delete my account

[cnorman18]

Please delete my account.

Here are the reasons, which are unrelated to any debate in which I am currently involved. The following is edited from a PM to another member:

I have been on this forum for five years, arguing, among other things, that there IS such a thing as rational religion, that NOT all religion is opposed to or incompatible with science, that there ARE religious perspectives not based on supernaturalism, that religion HAS brought many benefits to the world, and so on. I've argued all those points for years now.

Even so, one of the most intelligent and active members here has recently posted a message which reinforces every stereotype, blanket generalization, and distortion that I've ever fought against here. If even HE can still promote this simplistic nonsense, I conclude that I have been wasting my time.

Even if that member is just taking an extreme position in order to provoke debate, I don't have time for those games. I've been trying to raise the level of debate here above the "religion is irrational, childish magical thinking," "science is always good," and "religion is always bad" level for a long time -- and here we are, still in that simplistic, stereotyping swamp. I could jump into that thread and talk, once again, about (e.g.) chemical warfare and nuclear weapons on the "science" side and Gregor Mendel, Roger Bacon and the invention of organized charities, hospitals, and orphanages on the "religion" side -- and begin talking about the qualitative and historical differences between Judaism and other religions, and the fact that, too, very many Christians are NOT antiscientific, homophobic, and dogmatic ideologues -- but I've kinda been there and done that, you know? As in, almost every day for four out of the last five years. I don't feel like doing it any more, especially with someone who ought to know better -- and I find that I don't feel like blowing any more of the time I have left on an activity that is, it would appear, entirely pointless.

Be well. You guys will have to deal with the assorted cultists, nutballs, antisemites and other yahoos that will inevitably show up on your own. My work here is done -- because I have apparently accomplished exactly nothing, in 7000+ posts and God only knows (you'll excuse the expression) how many hours of work and research.

Good will to all and malice toward none. Farewell, and -- without apology -- may God, Whoever and Whatever He is or may be, bless you all.

Charles

[Divine Insight]

I've only been a member here a short time, but for whatever it's worth I have already noticed that your posts have been some of the most intelligent and civil posts I've seen.

We often don't realize the impact we have on people who read our thoughts, but you have given me a great respect for Judaism, as least as seen through you eyes. I know that I often appear as Satan himself when it comes to renouncing the Abrahamic Religions in general, but I have to say that if everyone viewed those scriptures from you perspective I would have great respect for them.

I'm saddened to see you leave, but after 7000+ posts perhaps moving forward in your life to other things might not be a bad idea anyway.

You'll never change the minds of others who hold strong to their views, whether those views are radical religious fundamentalism, or a stance that science supports a purely secular atheistic existence to the exclusion of all else.

All you can ever do is spread your thoughts as seeds and hope that some of your thoughts will find fertile soil in the minds of others. But when casting those seeds upon the surface of rocks they are unlikely to take root.

The only thing I would like to leave you with is that, even though I have only been here a short time, I have noticed that there are quite a few members who do indeed give your thoughts great respect. Perhaps you are too busy noticing that seeds won't grow on rocks to notice that there is actually a large garden of fertile minds around you that have indeed appreciated the thoughts you have shared.

Best wishes in your future journeys.

[A Troubled Man]

Don't 'rage quit' on us now, Charles.

We all know it's not likely we'll change the minds of the theists you refer, or attempt to get them to post honestly, or accept facts, but that doesn't really matter because there are so many other 'peeps' reading your posts and learning something, they are the ones that matter.

If you really believe you've accomplished nothing after 7000+ posts, then you're more deluded than they are.

I would submit to the admins here to leave your account open until you've had time to think about it. You're a smart guy, so it shouldn't be long until we see you happily posting again.

[Divine Insight]

"Thou shalt not leave thy forums until thou hast laid down seven burnt atheists upon the alter of the Internet, and hast opened the eyes of seven evangelical extremists, for this is the commandment of the Lord thy God the creator of all that is Holy and Pure."

In all seriousness though, of your 7000 posts, how many were posted in Head-to-Head debates? Why not challenge the demon who brags of owning the rights to stereotypical blanket generalizations to a face-to-face duel, and sever the head of the demon so that his blood may be used to wash away the filthy fallacy of his false prophecy?

[bluethread]

Don't 'rage quit' on us now, Charles.

We all know it's not likely we'll change the minds of the theists you refer, or attempt to get them to post honestly, or accept facts, but that doesn't really matter because there are so many other 'peeps' reading your posts and learning something, they are the ones that matter.

If you really believe you've accomplished nothing after 7000+ posts, then you're more deluded than they are.

I would submit to the admins here to leave your account open until you've had time to think about it. You're a smart guy, so it shouldn't be long until we see you happily posting again.

I don't think he was refering to theists, but atheists who presume all theists to be hyperliteralist, doctrinaire and/or mindless followers of RCC doctrine. There are "gods" that I detest. However, I realize that it is not those "gods" I am talking to. It is people who sincerely believe in those "gods" or no god at all. When one examines the beliefs of another, it is important to respect the structure of those beliefs. That is what I attempt to do and I am disappointed that cnorman18 will not be around to correct any errors I might make in my understanding of rabbinics, as I expect atheists to correct me on my understanding of their various belief systems.

[Angel]

Edited my post to add some things I left out

cnorman18

I honestly hope you don't leave and instead just take a break. You may be UNDERestimating your affect on people on this forum and perhaps because of few people who you've had bad experience with. I've seen others compliment you and I'm sure there are even more that you've helped change their view even if slightly and even if they don't express it to you.

In response to the reasons you've mentioned, I'd say that's the world of the internet for you. I would not hold such high expectations especially when it's not against the rules for people to ask and post anything they want regarding religion (in a civil manner), even if you've already covered it with them. Others may have a different point of view from you and be just as influential. I personally only come here to debate and test my views Compared to some of the other forums, trust me, this one is much better in terms of civility.

[cnorman18]

I hereby withdraw my request for account deletion.

Not because I intend to post again -- I don't -- but because I would like to retain easy access to my previous posts. I may recycle that material into a book one day.

Thanks.

Charles

[Divine Insight]

I hereby withdraw my request for account deletion.

Saved by the Archangels of the Almighty! Hallelujah!

I still think you should take your concern to a Head-to-Head debate though.

[A Troubled Man]

I hereby withdraw my request for account deletion.

Not because I intend to post again -- I don't -- but because I would like to retain easy access to my previous posts. I may recycle that material into a book one day.

Thanks.

Charles

Welcome back, Charles.

[Nickman]

I hereby withdraw my request for account deletion.

Not because I intend to post again -- I don't -- but because I would like to retain easy access to my previous posts. I may recycle that material into a book one day.

Thanks.

Charles

Welcome back. That sounds like a great idea. Glad to hear. You and I have addressed each other on issues, and for you to say you haven't made an impact is false. When I now post in generalities about religious belief and what I think about them, I leave Judaism out. I know Joey has said many good comments, as well as McCulloch. He even said he wished more Christians would realize what you were saying is true and they have no merit saying what the Hebrew texts should mean and what any Jew should believe. If I remember correctly that was your post and his reply.

Looks like you could use some tokens.