Help: How do I know that your God is the one, true God?

[Kir Komrik]

Hi all,
I'm new here and have just read up on the policies and finished my signature, etc. I hope I've done everything correctly so far.
I would like to believe in an almighty power but the problem is that in my research I've found so many gods out there. Coming from a family that has been explicitly atheist for generations, I'm starting from scratch and am looking at all religions.
I am sincerely curious to know how would I know, for instance, that your god is the one, true God?
Thank you.

[Kir Komrik]

next previous

I disagree. I think the correct answer is:
... more likely they emerged in response to natural events for which no Sumerian god divine cause existed.

[EduChris]

...As far as I know I was born atheist...

Ah, well Michael Shermer would contend that you and I are both "natural-born supernaturalists."

[JoeyKnothead]

...I would ask the reader to pause for a second, reread the thread and ponder the significance of what this means.

It simply means that given any particular text, and without any special information or reason to suppose otherwise, that text is more likely to be the product of human imagination or experience, rather than the product of divine inspiration. And it also means that many people are incorrectly attributing divine authorship to certain texts--perhaps because of confirmation bias and/or other reasons.

However, it should be noted that non-religious people also have wrong ideas about all manner of texts, including science texts. As our article says, "...most scientists...not only become strongly attached to their own theories; they perpetually look for evidence that supports rather than challenges their theories."

So we're all prone to make mistakes. I suspect those of us older than 30 have already figured this out. Perhaps it is true that many people are wrong about many things (or perhaps such an idea is itself a product of confirmation bias?). At any rate, the claim that many people are wrong about many things obviously says nothing at all about the merits of any individual case. Theism and non-theism are equally prone to confirmation bias.

I know I tend to set after you, but this post alone shows you do your homework, and that you're getting a good bunch of it right.

I will, to the best of my in/abilities, do my best to keep this in mind when I read or respond to your stuff.

(edit 'cause i before e except after c, and i feel just terrible about it)

[Kir Komrik]

Couldn't read it; too much spam.

[Kir Komrik]

I'd like to make an Amendment to my line of questioning now that I have posed the question about Agenticity. Note that when I introduced a question about confirmation bias I framed it as a question about the odds of confirmation bias vs. mass lunacy as an explanation for the alternative narrative. But I was careful to point out that this was only a first pass. Why?

Because the "mass lunancy" was a placeholder needed until I could ask about not one, but multiple causes which could explain the alternative narrative. One of these additional causes could be Agenticity, which, as I've noted in my question, could be operating in addition to and on top of confirmation bias. It still stands merely as a question of odds, but since I've now decided to ask another question, in this case involving Agenticity, I'd like to Amdend the "mass lunacy" possible cause with another:

With the information provided, all else equal, is it more likely that the Greek people of that time were experiencing confirmation bias to abide the faith or that the Greek people of that time were not?

While this doesn't change the nature of the question very much, it takes account of the fact that many other causes could be considered. I will begin asking about several now. The lunacy possibility is still there, I'm merely adding another with this revised question.

Note that this form of the question is even easier to establish since we are not asking how marked the confirmation bias was, but merely, was it more likely than not to have existed at all.

[Danmark]

The problem with this approach, whether atheist or christian is, as noted, confirmation bias and the milieu* in which one is raised.

Maybe ... maybe not. But this doesn't serve to answer the presenting question because we're talking about a duck, not any of a trillion other possibilities (see the Duck discussion). So, this isn't really the point, right?

With the information provided, all else equal, is it more likely that the Greek population of that time was experiencing confirmation bias or that the Greek people of that time were almost all luantics?

Again, this is not a clumsy attmept at humor, i'm using the American idiom so that most readers can follow what we're talking about. Not everyone is specialized enough to know a lot of this terminology, especially the kind educhris is using, or the rarefied verbiage of the Conjunction Rule of probability theory.

All that follows, therefore, is moot.

It would surprise few to learn that a quick search of Wikipedia yields that a religion by country comparison supports this statement. For example:

Percentage of Muslims in Afghanistan . . . . . . . 99.8%
. , , ,. , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,. in American Samoa . . . < 0.1%

Percentage of Christians in Afghanistan . . . . . . . . 02%
., , . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . in American Samoa . . . . 98.3%

This may help establish the futility of the inquiry about WHICH god, since IF one seeks god, it is likely to be the god of one's family, community or nation.

___________________________
since this post was written the same time as E-C's I've edited to add this
*"cultural plausibility structure" or bias
_________________

The presenting question had to do with how does one know one's god is the 'one true god.' My post relates to this (no offense to ducks) because it shows the futility of determining that any one of these gods is the 'one true god' because people overwhelmingly choose the god of their community; i.e. they do not choose their god because of any factor that could relate to your question as to why their god is 'true;' they choose their god because he is the god of their fathers' or their communities'.

[Danmark]

... Doesn't one have to take more seriously ...

Forgive the interruption, but I do take you very seriously.

It is not a question of whether you take me seriously.

I wrote: 2. Doesn't one have to take more seriously those who followed for decades a faith that was consistent with their culture, then changed to a completely different belief?

E.g. evangelical to atheist

And I'm NOT talking about those who began with the faith of their culture, flirted with a different faith, or atheism, then returned to a faith consistent with their culture, particularly when they had a crisis in their lives, a "foxhole conversion."

The point is, that the only time one can statistically believe a person believes in their god for independent reasons, i.e. reasons other than they are simply following their family and community tradition, is when they make a profound change in that belief, such as from evangelical to deist, or atheist. One has to take their reasoning seriously, whereas those who simply continue in their tradition cannot be assumed to have made an objective review of the competing literature.

[steps]

To Kir Komrik

you are saying [ all else equal ] to convince yourself . but the truth is :

the gods of Greek died . which means they are false gods .

the 360 gods around the scared house in the Arabian Peninsula died . which means they are false gods .

the god of Christians [ Jesus ] died . which means he is a false god

the god of atheism [ the coincidence ] died . which means the coincidence is not the creator .

all the false gods died one by one ...

and the true god , the living one . the creator of life and the creator of death .. death will never touch him . the death is one of his creation and under his command . he subjugated all things in the universe to taste the pain of death .

69. And rehearse to them (something of) Abraham's story.
70. Behold, he said to his father and his people: "What worship ye?"
71. They said: "We worship idols, and we remain constantly in attendance on them."
72. He said: "Do they listen to you when ye call (on them)"
73. Or do you good or harm?"
74. They said: "Nay, but we found our fathers doing thus (what we do)."
75. He said: "Do ye then see whom ye have been worshipping,-
76. "Ye and your fathers before you?-
77. "For they are enemies to me; not so the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds;

what will happen next ? I'm sure you did not ponder the holy Quran .

91. "And to those straying in Evil, the Fire will be placed in full view;
92. "And it shall be said to them: 'Where are the (gods) ye worshipped-
93. "'Besides Allah. Can they help you or help themselves?'
94. "Then they will be thrown headlong into the (Fire),- they and those straying in Evil,
95. "And the whole hosts of Iblis together.
96. "They will say there in their mutual bickerings:
97. "'By Allah, we were truly in an error manifest,
98. "'When we held you as equals with the Lord of the Worlds;
99. "'And our seducers were only those who were steeped in guilt.
100. "'Now, then, we have none to intercede (for us),
101. "'Nor a single friend to feel (for us).
102. "'Now if we only had a chance of return we shall truly be of those who believe!'"
103. Verily in this is a Sign but most of them do not believe.

now my friend : the base of the discussion is wrong , because you are comparing between the dead and not real . and the real God the living one who will never die .

thanks

[Danmark]

next previous

I disagree. I think the correct answer is:
... more likely they emerged in response to natural events for which no Sumerian god divine cause existed.

How is that different from what E-C said:

Kir Komrik wrote:
...Given only the information from these examples and what we know about Agenticity, all else equal, is it more likely that the agency seen in these natural events are of a divine origin in the God’s of the Sumerian Epic or is it more likely they emerged in response to natural events for which no Sumerian god divine cause existed?...

E-C:
The highlighted text is the correct assumption, assuming we have no special knowledge or convincing argument to the contrary.

[Goat]

To Kir Komrik

you are saying [ all else equal ] to convince yourself . but the truth is :

the gods of Greek died . which means they are false gods .

the 360 gods around the scared house in the Arabian Peninsula died . which means they are false gods .

the god of Christians [ Jesus ] died . which means he is a false god

the god of atheism [ the coincidence ] died . which means the coincidence is not the creator .

all the false gods died one by one ...

and the true god , the living one . the creator of life and the creator of death .. death will never touch him . the death is one of his creation and under his command . he subjugated all things in the universe to taste the pain of death .

69. And rehearse to them (something of) Abraham's story.
70. Behold, he said to his father and his people: "What worship ye?"
71. They said: "We worship idols, and we remain constantly in attendance on them."
72. He said: "Do they listen to you when ye call (on them)"
73. Or do you good or harm?"
74. They said: "Nay, but we found our fathers doing thus (what we do)."
75. He said: "Do ye then see whom ye have been worshipping,-
76. "Ye and your fathers before you?-
77. "For they are enemies to me; not so the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds;

what will happen next ? I'm sure you did not ponder the holy Quran .

91. "And to those straying in Evil, the Fire will be placed in full view;
92. "And it shall be said to them: 'Where are the (gods) ye worshipped-
93. "'Besides Allah. Can they help you or help themselves?'
94. "Then they will be thrown headlong into the (Fire),- they and those straying in Evil,
95. "And the whole hosts of Iblis together.
96. "They will say there in their mutual bickerings:
97. "'By Allah, we were truly in an error manifest,
98. "'When we held you as equals with the Lord of the Worlds;
99. "'And our seducers were only those who were steeped in guilt.
100. "'Now, then, we have none to intercede (for us),
101. "'Nor a single friend to feel (for us).
102. "'Now if we only had a chance of return we shall truly be of those who believe!'"
103. Verily in this is a Sign but most of them do not believe.

now my friend : the base of the discussion is wrong , because you are comparing between the dead and not real . and the real God the living one who will never die .

thanks

How is 'coincidence' the 'God of Atheism', and how it die. And ,according to the Chrisitans, Jesus came back, and therefore is not 'dead'.

And Bramah, Vishnu and Shiva never died.