Miracles or Supernatural feats?

[Angel]

In a thread entitled, Must watch, evidence of Jesus Miracles captured. (somewhat), a forum member posted a video that showed a man being able to generate enough heat from his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. Refer to 3:50 to 4:20 into the video. The man was a practitioner of QiGong (the same as Tai Chi, perhaps). I also posted information from a study on meditation and infrared video of QiGong practitioners in the act. These studies may explain how these QiGong experts are able to generate a remarkable amount of body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here. If these feats are genuine, I wonder what the implications would be.

Debate Questions:
So as the forum member claimed, do the feats in the video I referred to show a miracle or something supernatural taking place? And does that help validate Jesus' miracles?

Some skeptics on this forum dismissed the video as a complete hoax and mentioned that it was debunked. Please provide a source that demonstrates the falsehood of the body being able to generate body heat to the point shown in the videos/study through QiGong or intense meditation. Also factor in the meditation study and infrared video I linked to earlier in this post. Thanks.

[TheTruth101]

This is the deal Angel. The body that composes Heat under meditation is no different from a body that composes electricity (electrons) to heal another.

Under Revelations,

"As Lightning (electricity/electrons) comes from East to the West, so the Son of man be".

http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news ... c-healing/

A little electricity may dramatically speed up the healing of skin wounds. This according to work led by Min Zhao and Colin McCaig of the University of Aberdeen School of Medicine in Scotland. McCaig says it's long been known that wounds naturally generate weak electric currents, and that our cells sense and follow these currents to rebuild. In lab and animal studies, his team found that enhancing these electric fields made wounds heal up to 50 percent faster. In the future, he says doctors could achieve this with topical drugs.

And Christ was indeed a healer. With INFINITE electrons to provide to others on a whim as said in the Bible through the chapter of Revelations.

Also, goodluck getting Atheists to reply on this post, they simply cant because it would be strawman with no suuporting evidence to hold up their stance on this forum.

Go figure..

[playhavock]

First, the burdan should be on the one who made the video to prove there ablitys are real, not on us to debunk it.

So, has the person in the video proven there ablity? Can this ablity be expalned by natural things?

James Randy still offers 1 mil to anyone who can prove they can do something unnatural.

This whole issue reminds me of the woman who said she had seen someone with a fake eye (glass eye) take out the (glass eye) and read with his other eye covered.

Without the man in question to examin I have ZERO way to verify that he did this.

However, there are natural explations that might be the truth behnd this story:

1: The man used his hand to cover his working eye and peeked/ used a fake blindfold, etc. (cheating/magic trick)

2: As long as he has the correct recivers in the back of the eye - the eyeball itself might not be nessary to see, it seems your brain translates the immage the eye picks up using the transmiters, so it could be possible that even without a full eyeball you could in fact see.

Since we have no medical documation, no scientific study on the man in question, we do not know if he is using a natural method to see.

So what the woman is doing is called "Jumping to a conclusion" in this case, belife that it MUST be supernatural - that idea replaces whatever the actual case might be, as we have done ZERO investagaion to warrent the conclusion.

If we could show that the man in question was not tricking us - and show that he had no way for his brain to recive the signals from the eye and he could STILL see - then you would have something unexplained, and perhaps that is what some might call "mirrical"

So far, no such thing has ever been demostrated - at all. Everytime someone claims something (magical) they fail to produce any evidance that it works under control condions and typicaly make execueses for why this is the case.

My debate with dbohm ended with him saying that he knew people who could pridict the fucture, but that those people can not be studyed empericaly because God hides Himself - so the idea that they can make accurate predictions is not verifyable in any way, shape or fourm, and the number of misses they get is not being recorded - so there is no verifcation taking place - just the belife that when they get it right - THAT was from God , and all the times they get it wrong - it must be just them guessing. Perhaps , rather - they got one guess right in a millon guesses, yet becuase there is no record keeping going on and no tests being done - we only have his subjective idea that someone got something right once.

The conclusion being jumped to is that one right guess meens something.

I know the first video was debunked - I'm not sure off hand of a debunking of the other one - if you fully belive it is true, then I have some critical questions of how you are able to arive at that conclusion given the lack of data on the matter.

The burdan is to prove these things true.

Now - thetruth sugests that this is a strawman - well no - thats not the logical fallacy being invoked here - what is being used here is an apeal to ignroance and possibly personal incurgility - "I cant understand how this works... therefor God!"
or "We do not know how this works... therefor God"

[TheTruth101]

First, the burdan should be on the one who made the video to prove there ablitys are real, not on us to debunk it.

So, has the person in the video proven there ablity? Can this ablity be expalned by natural things?

James Randy still offers 1 mil to anyone who can prove they can do something unnatural.

This whole issue reminds me of the woman who said she had seen someone with a fake eye (glass eye) take out the (glass eye) and read with his other eye covered.

Without the man in question to examin I have ZERO way to verify that he did this.

However, there are natural explations that might be the truth behnd this story:

1: The man used his hand to cover his working eye and peeked/ used a fake blindfold, etc. (cheating/magic trick)

2: As long as he has the correct recivers in the back of the eye - the eyeball itself might not be nessary to see, it seems your brain translates the immage the eye picks up using the transmiters, so it could be possible that even without a full eyeball you could in fact see.

Since we have no medical documation, no scientific study on the man in question, we do not know if he is using a natural method to see.

So what the woman is doing is called "Jumping to a conclusion" in this case, belife that it MUST be supernatural - that idea replaces whatever the actual case might be, as we have done ZERO investagaion to warrent the conclusion.

If we could show that the man in question was not tricking us - and show that he had no way for his brain to recive the signals from the eye and he could STILL see - then you would have something unexplained, and perhaps that is what some might call "mirrical"

So far, no such thing has ever been demostrated - at all. Everytime someone claims something (magical) they fail to produce any evidance that it works under control condions and typicaly make execueses for why this is the case.

My debate with dbohm ended with him saying that he knew people who could pridict the fucture, but that those people can not be studyed empericaly because God hides Himself - so the idea that they can make accurate predictions is not verifyable in any way, shape or fourm, and the number of misses they get is not being recorded - so there is no verifcation taking place - just the belife that when they get it right - THAT was from God , and all the times they get it wrong - it must be just them guessing. Perhaps , rather - they got one guess right in a millon guesses, yet becuase there is no record keeping going on and no tests being done - we only have his subjective idea that someone got something right once.

The conclusion being jumped to is that one right guess meens something.

I know the first video was debunked - I'm not sure off hand of a debunking of the other one - if you fully belive it is true, then I have some critical questions of how you are able to arive at that conclusion given the lack of data on the matter.

The burdan is to prove these things true.

Now - thetruth sugests that this is a strawman - well no - thats not the logical fallacy being invoked here - what is being used here is an apeal to ignroance and possibly personal incurgility - "I cant understand how this works... therefor God!"
or "We do not know how this works... therefor God"

Well you forget the whole point of the OP relating another article himself supporting the relations between the Video and his own source of evidence claiming such phenomenon (miracle jts like what Christ did on a lesser scale) to be held true and reliable. And his sources have scientifical explanation of such "works".

And again, the burden of proof is on those who claim anything. It dosen't matter if you claim Atheism because you are debating with the opposition that claims otherwise.

[Angel]

First, the burdan should be on the one who made the video to prove there ablitys are real, not on us to debunk it.

The purpose of those videos in the OP was to show some evidence towards the authenticity of the abilities in question. I've been down this road before, mostly with atheists, and some people may never be satisfied and may resort to shifting the goal posts. On the flip side, these videos that I'm referring to were posted in another thread and it seems quite a number of skeptics on this forum were quick to say it's all a hoax and have been debunked, even. Shouldn't these people be required to provide evidence, for their claim?

So, has the person in the video proven there ablity? Can this ablity be expalned by natural things?

Not sure, but I haven't heard of any real scientific explanation that could account for how a mental exercise, meditation, could affect the body and even affect objects in the manner shown in those videos.

James Randy still offers 1 mil to anyone who can prove they can do something unnatural.

Show me via logic and/or verifiable evidence (borrowing from JoeyKnothead) that James Randy has 1 million dollars : )

This whole issue reminds me of the woman who said she had seen someone with a fake eye (glass eye) take out the (glass eye) and read with his other eye covered.

Without the man in question to examin I have ZERO way to verify that he did this.

However, there are natural explations that might be the truth behnd this story:

1: The man used his hand to cover his working eye and peeked/ used a fake blindfold, etc. (cheating/magic trick)

2: As long as he has the correct recivers in the back of the eye - the eyeball itself might not be nessary to see, it seems your brain translates the immage the eye picks up using the transmiters, so it could be possible that even without a full eyeball you could in fact see.

Since we have no medical documation, no scientific study on the man in question, we do not know if he is using a natural method to see.

So what the woman is doing is called "Jumping to a conclusion" in this case, belife that it MUST be supernatural - that idea replaces whatever the actual case might be, as we have done ZERO investagaion to warrent the conclusion.

If we could show that the man in question was not tricking us - and show that he had no way for his brain to recive the signals from the eye and he could STILL see - then you would have something unexplained, and perhaps that is what some might call "mirrical"

So far, no such thing has ever been demostrated - at all. Everytime someone claims something (magical) they fail to produce any evidance that it works under control condions and typicaly make execueses for why this is the case.

I wouldn't draw the conclusion that every single claim of a supernatural or magical feat has been or will be proven false. I understand that there has been a lot of cases proven false or to be a hoax, but then you risk overlooking a genuine case if you just give up or assume all cases are false. Who knows, supernatural occurrences may be rare to begin with.

I know the first video was debunked - I'm not sure off hand of a debunking of the other one - if you fully belive it is true, then I have some critical questions of how you are able to arive at that conclusion given the lack of data on the matter.

The burdan is to prove these things true.

Actually to call them false requires some proof as well. If someone is going to say that the feats in these videos were debunked then I want evidence and not word-of-mouth that is just as good to me as some Christian preacher in the street. I invite everyone to post or debate the videos, and I'm especially interested in the skeptical point-of-view, esp. in light of the 2 documentaries/study I posted.

Now - thetruth sugests that this is a strawman - well no - thats not the logical fallacy being invoked here - what is being used here is an apeal to ignroance and possibly personal incurgility - "I cant understand how this works... therefor God!"
or "We do not know how this works... therefor God"

For now, I can't outrule supernatural or an unknown natural ability but the implications of these feats being genuine is something in and of itself.

[Angel]

I'm not sure why I haven't gotten any responses from the skeptics who were claiming that the video in the OP was false. This will be another post that makes it easier to follow what I'm looking for.

In the following video between 3:50 to 4:20, a man who practices Qigong (tai chi?) and during intense concentration is able to generate enough body heat through his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. A feat similar to this was documented on film using infrared imaging which you can watch here. I also have some information from a meditation study which seems to correlate the two above examples. It basically documents monks who are skilled at meditation and who are able to rise or lower their body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here

[TheTruth101]

I'm not sure why I haven't gotten any responses from the skeptics who were claiming that the video in the OP is false. This will be another post that makes it easier to follow what I'm looking for.

In the following video between
3:50 to 4:20, a man who practices Qigong (tai chi?) and during intense concentration is able to generate enough body heat through his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. A feat similar to this was documented on film using infrared imaging which you can watch here. I also have some information from a meditation study which seems to correlate the two above examples. It basically documents monks who are skilled at meditation and who are able to rise or lower their body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here.

Angel, they (Atheists) just want to bury it, its too much for them to accept that there is such thing as the supernatural.

[TheTruth101]

I'm not sure why I haven't gotten any responses from the skeptics who were claiming that the video in the OP was false. This will be another post that makes it easier to follow what I'm looking for.

In the following video between 3:50 to 4:20, a man who practices Qigong (tai chi?) and during intense concentration is able to generate enough body heat through his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. A feat similar to this was documented on film using infrared imaging which you can watch here. I also have some information from a meditation study which seems to correlate the two above examples. It basically documents monks who are skilled at meditation and who are able to rise or lower their body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here

You know on that Video at 3:50 the QI master says this energy can kill as well as heal, its the same exact energy that Christ was given through prayer (meditation).

You also see the QI Master at the end of the fire demonstration he goes back to kneeling and spredaig his hand out again.

He's doing that to recieve the energy back that he exposed, if he doesnt, the energy that was exposed gets trapped in the fire, and that energy he can never get back.

Consider a small portal between his hand and the newpaper and the fire.

[Filthy Tugboat]

In a thread entitled, Must watch, evidence of Jesus Miracles captured. (somewhat), a forum member posted a video that showed a man being able to generate enough heat from his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. Refer to 3:50 to 4:20 into the video. The man was a practitioner of QiGong (the same as Tai Chi, perhaps). I also posted information from a study on meditation and infrared video of QiGong practitioners in the act. These studies may explain how these QiGong experts are able to generate a remarkable amount of body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here. If these feats are genuine, I wonder what the implications would be.

Debate Questions:
So as the forum member claimed, do the feats in the video I referred to show a miracle or something supernatural taking place? And does that help validate Jesus' miracles?

If it does show supernatural abilities, that no more validates the claim that Jesus performed miracles than my own claim that I perform miracles. Also miracle is a loosely defined term, some people believe that other people simply giving to charities and then those charities helping others with the funds given is miraculous, my own miraculous claims are simply that I am able to get out of bed each day.

Some skeptics on this forum dismissed the video as a complete hoax and mentioned that it was debunked. Please provide a source that demonstrates the falsehood of the body being able to generate body heat to the point shown in the videos/study through QiGong or intense meditation. Also factor in the meditation study and infrared video I linked to earlier in this post. Thanks.

I have made no such claim and do not plan to, however, I will indicate that it is probably untrue as heat generation at that level would most likely cause damage to the man's hand. As no damage was received, the heat most likely did not originate in the man's hand nor from his body.

[TheTruth101]

In a thread entitled, Must watch, evidence of Jesus Miracles captured. (somewhat), a forum member posted a video that showed a man being able to generate enough heat from his hand to make a newspaper catch on fire. Refer to 3:50 to 4:20 into the video. The man was a practitioner of QiGong (the same as Tai Chi, perhaps). I also posted information from a study on meditation and infrared video of QiGong practitioners in the act. These studies may explain how these QiGong experts are able to generate a remarkable amount of body heat and to do so quickly. I posted that here. If these feats are genuine, I wonder what the implications would be.

Debate Questions:
So as the forum member claimed, do the feats in the video I referred to show a miracle or something supernatural taking place? And does that help validate Jesus' miracles?

If it does show supernatural abilities, that no more validates the claim that Jesus performed miracles than my own claim that I perform miracles. Also miracle is a loosely defined term, some people believe that other people simply giving to charities and then those charities helping others with the funds given is miraculous, my own miraculous claims are simply that I am able to get out of bed each day.

Some skeptics on this forum dismissed the video as a complete hoax and mentioned that it was debunked. Please provide a source that demonstrates the falsehood of the body being able to generate body heat to the point shown in the videos/study through QiGong or intense meditation. Also factor in the meditation study and infrared video I linked to earlier in this post. Thanks.

I have made no such claim and do not plan to, however, I will indicate that it is probably untrue as heat generation at that level would most likely cause damage to the man's hand. As no damage was received, the heat most likely did not originate in the man's hand nor from his body.

The QI Master is DIRECTING his energy to a certain point. He's not directing heat to his own hand, he's exposing it to a certain angle.