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Jesus and the naked boy in Mark
 
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Daniel Hopkins Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:06 pm  Jesus and the naked boy in Mark Reply

I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why the boy only clothed in linen had this shroud, or sheet, torn off of him.

Those who consider the Buddhist sources to Christianity may call to mind that the Gnostics believed that the savior would not return until people, in disgust, rip off their clothes, i.e. take off the fig leaf underwear, i.e. not be ashamed.

The last words of the Buddha in the Sanghabhedavastu of the Mulasarvastivadin vinaya when he took off robe were "monks, behold the true body (kayam) of the Tathagata" in Greek this becomes 'Kianes Diathekes' blood contract, or 'The New Church' nuabihara Mahabhodi church, the new Buddhist vihara (church).

The occurence of the naked boy in Mark is believed by some to have been part of a larger narrative which was cut. Some believe the missing narrative to be found in the Secret Gospel of Mark.

Whatever the case, the vagueness of the Gospel account combined with it being Scripture, i.e. everything has a direct or symbolic meaning, would lead many perverted Christians to see in the naked boy of Mark Jesus sanctioning men traveling around with boys only draped in a sheet. This is supported by the fact that Jesus heals the Centurion's pias (sex slave) on his bed. Usually, any pias on a Centurions bed was there as his cup bearer, or sex slave.

I cover the topic in more detail in the book "Jesus's Godama Sources"
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Daniel Hopkins Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:13 pm   Reply

also wanted to add that the Catholic church is not subject to opening up their computers, and libraries (as the early commentaries on the naked boy in Mark, Jesus healing the Centurion's boy sex slave) as any other individual or group would be under the same allegations.
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ttruscott Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:04 pm   Reply

A different take:

Who Was the Naked Boy In the Garden of Gethsemane?

http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1578094/Who_Was_the_Naked_Boy_In_the_Garden_of_Gethsemane wrote:
And there followed him a certain young man,
having a linen cloth cast about his naked body;
and the young men laid hold on him:
and he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
- Mark 14:51, 52

Just about the time Jesus was finished healing the ear of the servant of the high priest named Malchus, the Gospel of Mark tells us a naked young man was found in the Garden of Gethsemane. Mark 15:51,52 says, "And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him: and he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked."

Who was this young man? Why was he following Jesus? Why was he naked? Why was he draped in a linen cloth instead of wearing normal clothes? And why was the Holy Spirit so careful to include this unique story in Mark's account of the Gospel? What is the significance of this event?

The key to identifying this young man lies in the "linen cloth" he had lightly draped about his body. The particular Greek word that is used for this "linen cloth" is used in only one other event in the New Testament - to depict the "linen cloth" in which the body of Jesus was wrapped for burial (see Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46, and Luke 23:53). Thus, the only reference we have for this kind of cloth in the New Testament is that of a burial shroud used for covering a dead body in the grave.

Some scholars have tried to say this naked young man was Mark himself. They assume that when Mark heard about Jesus' arrest, he quickly jumped out of bed and dashed to the Garden of Gethsemane. But the Garden was remotely located, and no one could have run there so quickly. It is simply a physical impossibility.

Others have speculated that Mark threw off his clothes in an attempt to shock and distract the soldiers so Jesus could escape. This idea is preposterous. Others have tried with similar vain attempts to assert that this naked young man was the apostle John. But why would John be walking naked in the Garden of Gethsemane?

As I said, the answer to this naked young man's identity lies in the cloth he had wrapped around his body. You see, when a body was prepared for burial, it was washed, ceremonially cleaned, and buried naked in a linen cloth exactly like the one described here in the Gospel of Mark. Furthermore, the Garden of Gethsemane was situated on the side of the Mount of Olives. Toward the base of that mount is a heavily populated cemetery, with many of its graves going back to the time of Jesus.

When Jesus said, "I AM," the power that was released was so tremendous that it knocked the soldiers backward (see April 8). But evidently it also caused a rumbling in the local cemetery! When that blast of power was released, a young boy, draped in a linen burial cloth in accordance with the tradition of that time, crawled out from his tomb - raised from the dead!

The reason he "followed" Jesus was to get a glimpse of the One who had resurrected him. The word "followed" means to continuously follow. This tells us that this resurrected young man trailed the soldiers as they took Jesus through the Garden on the way to His trial. When the soldiers discovered the young man who was following Jesus, they tried to apprehend him. But when they reached out to grab him, he broke free from their grip and fled, leaving the linen cloth in their possession.

Today, I want you to reflect again on the amazing power that was active at the time of Jesus' arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane. He later told Pilate, "…Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above..." (John 19:11). Indeed, there was so much power present that no one could have withstood Jesus had He chosen to resist. Jesus was not taken by the will of man; He was delivered by the will of the Father.

Think how marvelous it is that Jesus freely gave His life for you and me! So much power was at work in Him even at the time of His arrest that no one had sufficient power to forcibly take Him. The only reason Jesus was taken was that He chose to willingly lay down His life for you and for me. So take a little time today to stop and thank Him for being so willing to go to the Cross to take your sin on Himself!



Peace, Ted
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ttruscott Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:12 pm   Reply

Quote:
Those who consider the Buddhist sources to Christianity may call to mind that the Gnostics believed that the savior would not return until people, in disgust, rip off their clothes, i.e. take off the fig leaf underwear, i.e. not be ashamed.


Since the Gnostics thought that all evil was in the material realm and the only good was spiritual, I think someone has led you astray here... You maybe should provide a proof / source text of this belief and its connections to Buddhism which you aslo assert.

Peace, Ted
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:28 pm   Reply

.

The boy is clothed (i.e. cloaked) in sindon 'Indian' clothes.

The Buddha also had a favorite, or 'beloved' disciple

Same material used for Jesus's shroud

To Ted:

"Since the Gnostics thought that all evil was in the material realm and the only good was spiritual (as the Buddhists, not the Jews,did. You left that out] , I think someone has led you astray here... You maybe should provide a proof / source text of this belief {???} and its connections to Buddhism which you aslo assert. "


Original Sin was not actually found in Christianity till around the end of the first century, and then it was only to argue against the Gnostics, who, like the Buddhists, argued that one could justly walk with “right conceit” and a blameless manner. The Gnostics symbolized this in scripture and art as little children (“Children of light”) and most often naked boys, such as the one who appears from nowhere in Mark right before Jesus was arrested

A Jataka represented in Gandhara art has the imagery of a naked boy outside of a tomb. American Journal of Archeology (1918), p. 440, the similar image associated with the followers of Amitabha Buddha has already been mentioned.

Mark mentions that when Jesus was arrested, a young boy ran from the scene naked, “leaving his linen.”Again the word for linen is the same as Jesus’s shroud which refers to Indian cloth (“sindon”). This strange occurrence in Mark is probably an allegorical reference to the “Gnostic ” belief that Jesus’s return would be when people were shameless and threw off their clothes. Many Mahayana sutras promise that the earnest devotee will see the Buddha when they are without blame, and Buddha’s last act in the Mulasarvastivadin has already been noted. This short line in Mark may be part of an original now referred to as “Secret Mark.” Along with Jesus’s silence on healing the Centurion’s boy sex-slave (the Centurion’s “servant,” see “pias”), this short line in Mark may be responsible for all types of fantastical sexual interpretations by some deviant Christians over the ages. The Gnostic imagery of nakedness represents a person without sin; we see the same image in Buddhist art and those texts associated with Amitabha and Avalokitesvara showing a naked boy representing the rebirth of a dead saint. (“The deceased is represented as a naked boy, rising before them in a white ribbon of light that flows from Amitabha’s urna.” ―Charles F. Chicarelli) In Buddhism, sometimes the head angel (Sakra) appears as a boy at auspicious times. Luke’s gospel is addressed to a bishop, whose name means the same as one of Asoka’s epithets. It is believed that this bishop was born well after the disappearance of the Apostles. It seems as though early Christianity had a limited oral tradition, and this suggests that, besides the Jesus logia, the authors of all four Gospels had pretexts in their possession to work with. Of those few early oral quotes and legends in the so-called “Jesus logia” , there are a striking number of them which are found in both the Buddhist and Christian Apocrypha as well as with the Pali Buddhist texts. The Buddhist and Brahmins had a very strict tradition of passing down complex teachings orally. “Such persons,” says Max Muller, are “walking manuscripts.” By the time Saint John wrote his revelations, the “evil future age” of the Buddhists had already been washed to suit the Persian, Egyptian, and Greek views on the future hero. What was originally Buddha comparing his counterfeit religion to the acceptance of “fool’s gold” and the first schism around accepting money (also with the Cynics, Sophists, and caused a division among the Jews, of the same time) became John’s buying and selling that is related to the beast. The weeping Buddhist angels with sad faces that appear at the beginning of the Buddhist
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:18 pm   Reply

The explanation that makes the most sense to me is that the young man was Mark himself. Perhaps he was sleeping in a nearby house, was awakened by the noise of Jesus' arrest, and in his hurry to find out what was happening didn't take the time to get dressed but simply wrapped a linen sheet around himself.
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Daniel Hopkins Offline
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:19 pm   Reply

So you think the author of Mark, failed to mention the context to this strange occurence?

I guess you also believe that Matthew was at the Sermon on the Mount although, in the "Gospel of Matthew", Matthew, or the author, says different.
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:11 pm   Reply

Simon Magus, his gnosticism and his dependance upon far Eastern religions to aid him in his fight against orthodox Christianity to start his own religion...

is NOT a good resource for Bible interpretation for Christians.

Peace, Ted
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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:37 am   Reply

As Peter, James, and young John the beloved disciple, who Leonardo da-Vinci portrayed in such feminine form in his painting, "The Last Supper," were the only three disciples who were invited to go deeper into the garden where he prayed and where he was arrested, we read, that three times he returned to the three that had gone with him only to find them asleep each time.

When he came back the third time, he said to the three, "Are you still sleeping and resting" Enough! The hour has come! Look, the Son of Man is now being handed over to the power of sinful men. Get up, let us go. Look, here is the man who is betraying me."

Knowing that Peter cut off the ear of the slave of the High Priest, I'll bet my bottom dollar that of the other two "James and his younger brother John the beloved" who were with Jesus, it was young John, who was later to be surnamed "Mark=The Hammer" (Son of Thunder) who ran off naked.
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