What is the justification for calling homosexuality a sin?

[Danmark]

Shutting down Exodus International, its founder Alan Chambers said:
"I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents," he added. "I am sorry that there were times I didn't stand up to people publicly 'on my side' who called you names like sodomite -- or worse."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/exodus-interna ... cjfM_bwLEM
June 20, 2013

The story goes on to report:
In a 2009 report, the American Psychological Association concluded that "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation."

Chambers, who is married to a woman, said in his apology that over the years, he had "conveniently omitted my ongoing same-sex attractions."

"They brought me tremendous shame and I hid them in the hopes they would go away," he said. "Looking back, it seems so odd that I thought I could do something to make them stop. Today, however, I accept these feelings as parts of my life that will likely always be there."

Since it is becoming more obvious to more people that sexual orientation is innate, what is the justification for continuing to call it a 'sin' as fundamentalist Muslims and Christians do?

[FeliceHeart214]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Since it is becoming more obvious to more people that sexual orientation is innate, what is the justification for continuing to call it a 'sin' as fundamentalist Muslims and Christians do?

[/quote]

That's a very good/interesting question.

First of all, we'd have to agree on what 'sin' is. Webster's dictionary offers a couple definitions: "an offense against religious or moral law", and "transgression of the law of God". Sin is an offense against God and His law.

Why would God give us certain "innate" (definition: inborn, natural) tendencies if He lists them as a sin? Why be so cruel as to label something a sin and then make it impossible for us to fight, thereby always "sinning" according to the laws He has set in place?

For one thing, if something is against God's law, it is God who would be deeming it a sin -not Christians.
But back to the question: why create us with "natural" tendencies and then call them sin? As if we had a choice?

So let's take it back to the beginning.
Genesis 1:31 says, "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." Logically, it can be safely assumed that if God saw it all as "very good", He must not have seen any sin. God did not create sin, he created us with a choice to either be in a relationship with Him, or to not be. He chose to not create a world of robots that only paid Him lip service because, well, what other choice would they have? He showed us mercy and allowed us to chose between Him, or what our hearts wanted for themselves. And if what we chose was an offense against God and his Law, it would be sin. So we chose. And we chose poorly (Eve and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). But we can't blame it all on Eve because we ourselves make the same poor choices every single day. Point is, we sinned and in doing so, ushered something into a world that would change it so drastically it would never be the same again.

Some of us are born with a natural tendency towards anger, quick tempers and are short on patience. Someone can grow up and never work on those problems and it could become something more deadly -Cain had a temper, so he killed his brother. There are serial killers that have "innate" tendencies to take their anger out through violence, but does that make it right?
Yes, there are men who have a tendency to be more feminine and may fight a desire to have relations with the same-sex. But just because we have these tendencies (brought on by sin) doesn't mean they aren't something we can overcome through Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[FeliceHeart214]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Since it is becoming more obvious to more people that sexual orientation is innate, what is the justification for continuing to call it a 'sin' as fundamentalist Muslims and Christians do?

That's a very good/interesting question.

First of all, we'd have to agree on what 'sin' is. Webster's dictionary offers a couple definitions: "an offense against religious or moral law", and "transgression of the law of God". Sin is an offense against God and His law.

Why would God give us certain "innate" (definition: inborn, natural) tendencies if He lists them as a sin? Why be so cruel as to label something a sin and then make it impossible for us to fight, thereby always "sinning" according to the laws He has set in place?

For one thing, if something is against God's law, it is God who would be deeming it a sin -not Christians.
But back to the question: why create us with "natural" tendencies and then call them sin? As if we had a choice?

So let's take it back to the beginning.
Genesis 1:31 says, "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." Logically, it can be safely assumed that if God saw it all as "very good", He must not have seen any sin. God did not create sin, he created us with a choice to either be in a relationship with Him, or to not be. He chose to not create a world of robots that only paid Him lip service because, well, what other choice would they have? He showed us mercy and allowed us to chose between Him, or what our hearts wanted for themselves. And if what we chose was an offense against God and his Law, it would be sin. So we chose. And we chose poorly (Eve and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). But we can't blame it all on Eve because we ourselves make the same poor choices every single day. Point is, we sinned and in doing so, ushered something into a world that would change it so drastically it would never be the same again.

Some of us are born with a natural tendency towards anger, quick tempers and are short on patience. Someone can grow up and never work on those problems and it could become something more deadly -Cain had a temper, so he killed his brother. There are serial killers that have "innate" tendencies to take their anger out through violence, but does that make it right?
Yes, there are men who have a tendency to be more feminine and may fight a desire to have relations with the same-sex. But just because we have these tendencies (brought on by sin) doesn't mean they aren't something we can overcome through Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Carm.org says this,

Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines the basis of God's created order where God made Adam, a man, and Eve, a woman -- not two men, not two women -- to carry out his command to fill and subdue the earth (Gen. 1:28). Homosexuality cannot carry out that command. It also undermines the basic family unit of husband and wife, the God-ordained means of procreation. It is also dangerous to society.

The full article that sums it up pretty well from what I've read of it, can be found here: carm.org/bible-homosexuality

[alwayson]

Mostly from the Old Testament.

However Christians eat pork, don't follow the Sabbath etc. So its hypocritical.

[FeliceHeart214]

[Replying to post 3 by alwayson]


In regards to the Sabbath day or what they used to eat:
Colossians 2:16-17 says, "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

and that is because, (verse 17) "These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

[alwayson]

Yes I know.

That's my point.

[FeliceHeart214]

I[Replying to post 5 by alwayson]

I'm sorry but I've failed to see what your point is.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

This verse is from the new testament. The verse I mentioned earlier was referring to eating a certain meat/food/drink or worshipping on one day as opposed to another. According to the new testament, homosexuality was/is still an "unrighteous" act.

[Allahakbar]

I[Replying to post 5 by alwayson]

I'm sorry but I've failed to see what your point is.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

This verse is from the new testament. The verse I mentioned earlier was referring to eating a certain meat/food/drink or worshipping on one day as opposed to another. According to the new testament, homosexuality was/is still an "unrighteous" act.

I find it fascinating that the word homosexual appears in a text 1700yrs before the term was coined, but regardless. You are quoting someone called JESUS with this passage?

[alwayson]

I[Replying to post 5 by alwayson]

I'm sorry but I've failed to see what your point is.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

This verse is from the new testament. The verse I mentioned earlier was referring to eating a certain meat/food/drink or worshipping on one day as opposed to another. According to the new testament, homosexuality was/is still an "unrighteous" act.

Yes I know Christians discard Old Testament law. See wine skins parable.

Of course for homosexuality, they still cite the Old Testament like hypocrites.

By the way, Jesus did not say Cor. 6:9-10.

[Dantalion]

I[Replying to post 5 by alwayson]

I'm sorry but I've failed to see what your point is.

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

This verse is from the new testament. The verse I mentioned earlier was referring to eating a certain meat/food/drink or worshipping on one day as opposed to another. According to the new testament, homosexuality was/is still an "unrighteous" act.

Yeah but playing the biblical text interpretation game, i can just answer that with
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/b ... iries.html

The Bible can be interpreted to mean anything you want.