Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?

[10CC]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

[Divine Insight]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

I can only speak for myself.
I'm going to heaven.

Where anyone else goes is their own business.
You ask, who has the final say?
Well, that depends on who you ask doesn't it?
If you ask Jesus then YOU have the final say in the matter.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

So unless Jesus was a liar, if you judge no one you shall not be judged. Therefore you can chose to skip judgement day altogether by simply not judging others.

If you don't judge others, then Jesus can't judge you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you judge not you shall not be judged.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you condemn no one you cannot be condemned. Therefore you can chose to skip condemnation by simply not condemning others.

If you don't condemn others, then Jesus can't condemn you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you condemn no one you shall not be condemned.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you forgive others you will be forgiven. Therefore you can guarantee that you will be forgiven by simply forgiving others.

If you forgive others, then Jesus can't refuse to forgive you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you forgive ye shall be forgiven.

~~~~

So unless Jesus was a liar, my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been sealed.

The only way I could not go to heaven is if Jesus was a liar. But if Jesus was a liar, then he couldn't have been God, and if he wasn't God then maybe there is no heaven to go to?

So if Jesus was God, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been guaranteed by Jesus himself.

[10CC]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

I can only speak for myself.
I'm going to heaven.

Where anyone else goes is their own business.
You ask, who has the final say?
Well, that depends on who you ask doesn't it?
If you ask Jesus then YOU have the final say in the matter.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

So unless Jesus was a liar, if you judge no one you shall not be judged. Therefore you can chose to skip judgement day altogether by simply not judging others.

If you don't judge others, then Jesus can't judge you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you judge not you shall not be judged.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you condemn no one you cannot be condemned. Therefore you can chose to skip condemnation by simply not condemning others.

If you don't condemn others, then Jesus can't condemn you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you condemn no one you shall not be condemned.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you forgive others you will be forgiven. Therefore you can guarantee that you will be forgiven by simply forgiving others.

If you forgive others, then Jesus can't refuse to forgive you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you forgive ye shall be forgiven.

~~~~

So unless Jesus was a liar, my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been sealed.

The only way I could not go to heaven is if Jesus was a liar. But if Jesus was a liar, then he couldn't have been God, and if he wasn't God then maybe there is no heaven to go to?

So if Jesus was God, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been guaranteed by Jesus himself.

Applause!!!!!!! Bravo!!!!!!!!
Applause!!!!!!!!Bravo!!!!!!!!!

[connermt]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

If you're speaking of the christian heaven, not all christians can agree themselves. I doubt you'll find anything here to settle your question. But hey, at least we're having fun, no?

[Moses Yoder]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

I can only speak for myself.
I'm going to heaven.

Where anyone else goes is their own business.
You ask, who has the final say?
Well, that depends on who you ask doesn't it?
If you ask Jesus then YOU have the final say in the matter.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

So unless Jesus was a liar, if you judge no one you shall not be judged. Therefore you can chose to skip judgement day altogether by simply not judging others.

If you don't judge others, then Jesus can't judge you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you judge not you shall not be judged.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you condemn no one you cannot be condemned. Therefore you can chose to skip condemnation by simply not condemning others.

If you don't condemn others, then Jesus can't condemn you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you condemn no one you shall not be condemned.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you forgive others you will be forgiven. Therefore you can guarantee that you will be forgiven by simply forgiving others.

If you forgive others, then Jesus can't refuse to forgive you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you forgive ye shall be forgiven.

~~~~

So unless Jesus was a liar, my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been sealed.

The only way I could not go to heaven is if Jesus was a liar. But if Jesus was a liar, then he couldn't have been God, and if he wasn't God then maybe there is no heaven to go to?

So if Jesus was God, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been guaranteed by Jesus himself.

You just judged Jesus. You said that if He judges you on judgement day He will be a two faced liar. You make the assumption that you have understood the quote correctly and then judge Him accordingly. I judge people all the time. The Bible instructs us to judge people.

[dianaiad]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

I can only speak for myself.
I'm going to heaven.

Where anyone else goes is their own business.
You ask, who has the final say?
Well, that depends on who you ask doesn't it?
If you ask Jesus then YOU have the final say in the matter.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

So unless Jesus was a liar, if you judge no one you shall not be judged. Therefore you can chose to skip judgement day altogether by simply not judging others.

If you don't judge others, then Jesus can't judge you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you judge not you shall not be judged.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you condemn no one you cannot be condemned. Therefore you can chose to skip condemnation by simply not condemning others.

If you don't condemn others, then Jesus can't condemn you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you condemn no one you shall not be condemned.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you forgive others you will be forgiven. Therefore you can guarantee that you will be forgiven by simply forgiving others.

If you forgive others, then Jesus can't refuse to forgive you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you forgive ye shall be forgiven.

~~~~

So unless Jesus was a liar, my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been sealed.

The only way I could not go to heaven is if Jesus was a liar. But if Jesus was a liar, then he couldn't have been God, and if he wasn't God then maybe there is no heaven to go to?

So if Jesus was God, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been guaranteed by Jesus himself.

DI...you have never judged anybody? At all? Ever? Never come to a conclusion about someone else's actions, appearance or opinions? EVER?

Wow.

btw, Young's literal translation (word for word, concept for concept) has a SLIGHTLY different take on that verse:

And judge not, and ye may not be judged; condemn not, and ye may not be condemned; release, and ye shall be released.

Mind you, most translations have it put as strongly as you have. However, I have read your posts here on this forum, and while you aren't by any means the most judgmental poster here, you have made judgments.

About people.
About their opinions.
About their beliefs.
About, well..............

So, perhaps.....er......

Now me, I try hard, but I fail more often than I want to.

[Divine Insight]

You just judged Jesus. You said that if He judges you on judgement day He will be a two faced liar. You make the assumption that you have understood the quote correctly and then judge Him accordingly. I judge people all the time. The Bible instructs us to judge people.

I did not judge Jesus at all Moses.

I said IF Jesus were to renege on his own words he would be a two-faced liar.

I never suggested that he would actually do such a disgustingly dishonest thing.

So no judgement against Jesus was made. I'm willing to accept that if he actually said these things and he was indeed God, then he'll keep his word.

This is why I'm confident that if he is God I'll be guaranteed my place in heaven.

Isn't that what I said?

Therefore I'm actually assuming that Jesus would have told the truth. But I still don't know if I can trust these hearsay rumors. After all, we must realize that Luke could potentially be the liar and Jesus never made these claims at all. Or maybe this Jesus fellow never even existed?

All I'm doing is giving the mythology the benefit of the doubt.

DI...you have never judged anybody? At all? Ever? Never come to a conclusion about someone else's actions, appearance or opinions? EVER?

Wow.

Whoa there Di. We're talking about morally judging people, not merely coming to rational conclusions based on someone's actions or appearances.

You say,...

Mind you, most translations have it put as strongly as you have. However, I have read your posts here on this forum, and while you aren't by any means the most judgmental poster here, you have made judgments.

About people.
About their opinions.
About their beliefs.
About, well..............

So, perhaps.....er......

Now me, I try hard, but I fail more often than I want to.

Have you ever thought that maybe you're being way too hard on yourself?

If someone states and opinion, I think it's reasonable to assume that they actually hold that opinion.

That's not a judgement, that's an observation. Moreover, it most certainly isn't a moral judgment. Every conclusion you draw about the world or other people does not need to be a moral judgement.

For example, if I'm walk into an alley and I see a bunch of young men who appear to be potentially dangerous, and I decide to be on the safe side of things and turn around and take another route. Have I passed judgement on anyone in that alley? No I haven't. All I did was assess the situation for potential risk. For all I know those guys could have been a church choir waiting to be let in the back door of a church. So I made no moral judgements on these people. I simply chose not to discover something bad about them the hard way.

If you feel guilty about making common sense decisions about people when you aren't actually judging them to necessarily be immoral people, then you're being way too hard on yourself, IMHO.

I don't think that's what Jesus would have been referring it.

Surely you don't think the Jesus was suggesting that you should totally abandon common sense?

You have to make decisions in this world if you want to survive.

Moreover, let's say that some obviously criminally insane person was chasing me down shooting at me with a gun and obviously trying to kill me. Does this mean that I need to judge him to be an "evil" person? No not at all. He could simply be mentally ill. Maybe he has no responsibility for his actions at all.

In fact, I would give him that benefit of the doubt myself.

So no, I don't judge anyone to be evil. Even people who are clearly behaving in obviously dangerous and hideous ways. Even then I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are simply mentally ill, or just plain stupid, and have no real control over their actions.

I don't judge anyone to be evil. But I do suspect that there are mentally ill people in the world. But that's not a judgement. That's just an observation of what appears to be an unavoidable fact of life.

There is no reason why you need to pass moral judgement on anyone Di.

So unless you are actually doing that, I don't see why you should feel that you are judging anyone.

You always have the option to presume that even people who appear to be doing evil things may ultimately be innocent via mental illness or utter stupidity.

So you really have no need to even bother judging anyone's morality. In fact, if you actually BELIEVE in Jesus, why not let him to that?

If Jesus is God then he's also omniscient and therefore he's the ONLY one who is a position to know whether people are mentally ill or actually evil. You and I can't even know that. So it would be silly for us to judge anyone's morally. We could only be guessing anyway.

So why even bother to judge other people's morality?

[Jagged Zen Monkey]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

What's good for one is fitting for all.

[Nickman]

Can anybody tell me?
Is there a list of requirements?
Who has the final say?
[center]Who goes to heaven?....Who goes to hell?[/center]

I can only speak for myself.
I'm going to heaven.

Where anyone else goes is their own business.
You ask, who has the final say?
Well, that depends on who you ask doesn't it?
If you ask Jesus then YOU have the final say in the matter.


Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

So unless Jesus was a liar, if you judge no one you shall not be judged. Therefore you can chose to skip judgement day altogether by simply not judging others.

If you don't judge others, then Jesus can't judge you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you judge not you shall not be judged.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you condemn no one you cannot be condemned. Therefore you can chose to skip condemnation by simply not condemning others.

If you don't condemn others, then Jesus can't condemn you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you condemn no one you shall not be condemned.

~~~~~

Unless Jesus was a liar, if you forgive others you will be forgiven. Therefore you can guarantee that you will be forgiven by simply forgiving others.

If you forgive others, then Jesus can't refuse to forgive you on judgement day without being a two-faced liar. According to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus just told you that if you forgive ye shall be forgiven.

~~~~

So unless Jesus was a liar, my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been sealed.

The only way I could not go to heaven is if Jesus was a liar. But if Jesus was a liar, then he couldn't have been God, and if he wasn't God then maybe there is no heaven to go to?

So if Jesus was God, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven has been guaranteed by Jesus himself.

But you have judged a person once at least. So there needs to be salvation from that judgement you made, correct?

Im not trying to be obtuse, just that this strikes me as only part of the equation made by Jesus.

[Divine Insight]

But you have judged a person once at least.

Who did I judge?

I'm seriously curious to know?

For me not judging the morality of other people is easy because it's not something I've ever done. Like I say, I even give self-confessed criminals the benefit of the doubt for either being seriously mentally ill, or extremely stupid.

In fact, this may seem strange, but as far as I'm concerned anyone who would willfully chose to do an "evil" thing is automatically mentally ill, IMHO.

Because I can't see where choosing to do evil things is sane.

So I'll be more than happy to leave any and all judgments up to a supposedly omniscient God. Only a being who has omniscience is in a position to judge anyone.

In fact, this was one of my major complaints about the Old Testament. Why would an omniscient God command mortal men to judge each other and stone sinners to death? Mortal men are not omniscient. They have no way of knowing what is in the hearts and minds of other men. So there is no way that they can be sure that someone's behavior is due to the person being knowingly evil, or if the person is just mentally ill, etc. Or maybe they even had justified motivation that makes their apparent sinful act righteous.

Who knows? Only the Shadow Knows! And an omniscient God.

We mortals aren't equipped to be judging the morality of anyone. We simply don't have the power of omniscience required to make that determination.

In fact, in many cases we can't even be sure if someone accused of a crime or sin had even truly committed the crime or sin. Look at how many people had been sent to prison only to be discovered to be innocent decades later.

We are not in a position to be judging the morality of anyone.

So as far as I'm concerned if Jesus is telling me that I do not need to judge anyone all I have to say is "Thank You Jesus!" I never wanted to get into that dirty business in the first place.

I would have had to have disobeyed the God of the Old Testament, because that God had commanded that I judge people and stone them to death. Which I would have refused to do. And that would instantly make me a "sinner" for refusing to do what God had commanded me to do.

So how oxymoronic is that?

If I am to obey the God of the Old Testament I have been commanded to judge others and stone sinners to death.

If I am to obey Jesus I am to refrain from judging others and casting the first stone.

And this is supposed to be the SAME GOD?

That would be a pretty schizophrenic God don't you think?

Can't he make up his mind? Will he change his mind again?

It sounds like mixed messages to me.

I'll go with Jesus and tell the God of Abraham to go to hell.

Jesus said if I don't judge others I won't be judged.

I'll take Jesus on his WORD. If he turns out to be a liar, there's not much I can do about that.